Center mount turbo

[OrionThade]

Hey numb****' girlfriend: you act as though we give a rats full point of contact what you think.

Have you seriously not gotten the hint that you're not wanted nor welcomed in the 6.5 section of the forum? If you want to go see who's stick is bigger, to play with the Ford guys. We're just plain not interested in what you have to say.

The only ones around here that are acting like they have anything to prove is you and your girlfriend up there.

STAFF EDIT: Edited profanity that made it past the word filter.

 

[Mike K3500]

Post deleted due to highly inappropriate content and insulting a fellow member. Level 2 infraction given.

Sad to say that after all these years, only now, do I have to give my personal 1st infraction. I'm very disappointed that it came to this but everyone needs to keep in mind that we will not be so laid back going forward.

 

[Cumminsfever]

Guys, Take the personal attacks and insulting comments with you, put it all in your forum travel kits, take it back to CompD or wherever else it's accepted and MAKE DAMN SURE to not return here with it! We've been as tolerant of this crap as we are going to be and you can bet we are going to be watching henceforth...
This forum has been a brotherhood full of friendly and helpful members who genuinely enjoyed interacting with each other for over 5 years. If that isn't what you want then don't be here any more.

Just want to say "thank you" for this post.

And to the rest of you guys- let's get back to our regular schedule of center mounting turbos on our scrap iron and putting new life into old technology!


On a brighter note- this weekend will be knocking on the 3500 mile mark. Running good as ever!

 

[handcannon]

Post deleted due to highly inappropriate content and insulting a fellow member. Level 2 infraction given.

Sad to say that after all these years, only now, do I have to give my personal 1st infraction. I'm very disappointed that it came to this but everyone needs to keep in mind that we will not be so laid back going forward.

Thank You!!!

I've been enjoying this forum for a while now and it hasn't been until recently that these kind of childish antics have cropped up. I don't have the technical knowledge that others have, but I'm wanting to learn, which is why I've stayed here through all this recent garbage.

I'm really enjoying these threads that cover all the experimenting that is going on. Often I don't fully understand what is being said, but I'm hoping that with enough time and reading I'll eventually begin to understand.

Please, everybody, keep posting all this good info.

Don

 

[Cumminsfever]

Recall earlier in this thread "buddy" spoke of trans tuning. In speaking to him, and learning how the factory has these trans tuned, I realised I am gonna burn up my trans. GM didn't tune for power. They tuned for smooth shift. So, now getting tuned for the wee bit of extra power I have.
Yes, buddy is doing the tuning.
Otherwise, still running great. Water injection pump died. I am redoing it. Going with 1 big injector, instead of 8 small ones.

 

[crash2win64]

Did you have one on each runner of the intake manifold?

 

[Cumminsfever]

Did you have one on each runner of the intake manifold?

Yes.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Recall earlier in this thread "buddy" spoke of trans tuning. In speaking to him, and learning how the factory has these trans tuned, I realised I am gonna burn up my trans. GM didn't tune for power. They tuned for smooth shift. So, now getting tuned for the wee bit of extra power I have.
Yes, buddy is doing the tuning.
Otherwise, still running great. Water injection pump died. I am redoing it. Going with 1 big injector, instead of 8 small ones.

Keep in mind that the tables you are looking at for trans pressure in the ECM code are NOT what the line pressure ACTUALLY is. Put a trans pressure guage on your trans and I bet you will find it is running 140-160 PSI of line pressure at WOT, not the 56 he says. In stock form they are capable of about 160-170 max line pressure(transgo HD2 kits raise that up top about 190), but they do fall off to about 70-90 during most shifts.

 

[Cumminsfever]

Keep in mind that the tables you are looking at for trans pressure in the ECM code are NOT what the line pressure ACTUALLY is. Put a trans pressure guage on your trans and I bet you will find it is running 140-160 PSI of line pressure at WOT, not the 56 he says. In stock form they are capable of about 160-170 max line pressure(transgo HD2 kits raise that up top about 190), but they do fall off to about 70-90 during most shifts.

Yes, I am aware it is code in the computer, not actual line psi. What the issue is, the pcm ramps pressure during shift, then goes back to it's normal low pressure operation, so when cruising it don't have enough pressure. It is holding fine for me "most" of the time, but certain times it will shudder.
also, changing lockup tables, shift points, etc.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Yes, I am aware it is code in the computer, not actual line psi. What the issue is, the pcm ramps pressure during shift, then goes back to it's normal low pressure operation, so when cruising it don't have enough pressure. It is holding fine for me "most" of the time, but certain times it will shudder.
also, changing lockup tables, shift points, etc.

Have you considered an optishift so you can have dual shift schedules for it and ability to adjust it yourself on the fly? And shudders are normally torque converters.

 

[Cumminsfever]

Have you considered an optishift so you can have dual shift schedules for it and ability to adjust it yourself on the fly? And shudders are normally torque converters.

Considered the optishift, and would have one, but can't afford it. And I don't see why I need one, when we can tune the pcm just as well, and can have as many as 6 adjustable tunes.
this truck is all about cheap. So far, so good!

 

[tanman_2006]

I am interested in you tranny tuning experiment. Always wondered how tranny tuning would work on a mech ip since the fueling is constant.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Considered the optishift, and would have one, but can't afford it. And I don't see why I need one, when we can tune the pcm just as well, and can have as many as 6 adjustable tunes.
this truck is all about cheap. So far, so good!

Said persons ebay ad was for $450 for his base chip with 3 tunes, and an OTPISHIFT can be had for $549 http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/sh...controller-For-DS4-to-DB2-or-engine-swaps-549 . Not a huge price differrence, and you can adjust the OPTISHIFT yourself to whatever you want whenever you want.

 

[Cumminsfever]

Said persons ebay ad was for $450 for his base chip with 3 tunes, and an OTPISHIFT can be had for $549 http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/sh...controller-For-DS4-to-DB2-or-engine-swaps-549 . Not a huge price differrence, and you can adjust the OPTISHIFT yourself to whatever you want whenever you want.

From that perspective, I can see why you'd say go optishift. But... I didn't pay that much. This is STRICTLY trans tuning, and he said he will send me the tune when it is done.
Just so we're clear, 1 tune, trans ONLY.

For what he did it for, I can't afford to do it myself... at this time.

 

[buddy]

Keep in mind that the tables you are looking at for trans pressure in the ECM code are NOT what the line pressure ACTUALLY is. Put a trans pressure guage on your trans and I bet you will find it is running 140-160 PSI of line pressure at WOT, not the 56 he says. In stock form they are capable of about 160-170 max line pressure(transgo HD2 kits raise that up top about 190), but they do fall off to about 70-90 during most shifts.

The 56 is a "torque signal pressure" to the tranny PCS, its what GM commands at full throttle, except when shifting. As documented in the tranny manual, a 90 torque signal pressure is basically 0 amps to the PCS, which gives you the max pressure, ~170psi. Its not exactly linear from 0-90, but the curve is documented in the manual for determining the current to the PCS and what that means in terms of actual line pressure. With the amount of power that is being laid down at even 50% throttle, and the PCM only giving like 1/3 of the pressure it could command, its not hard to see why the trannys would get burned up, especially when the pedals are sensitive and give a lot of fuel at low throttle percentages where the program has the least commanded pressure.

The stock program only programs up to 90 when you punch the throttle from a stand still. And only up to like 20mph if at full throttle. Then drops to 56.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

The 56 is a "torque signal pressure" to the tranny PCS, its what GM commands at full throttle, except when shifting. As documented in the tranny manual, a 90 torque signal pressure is basically 0 amps to the PCS, which gives you the max pressure, ~170psi. Its not exactly linear from 0-90, but the curve is documented in the manual for determining the current to the PCS and what that means in terms of actual line pressure. With the amount of power that is being laid down at even 50% throttle, and the PCM only giving like 1/3 of the pressure it could command, its not hard to see why the trannys would get burned up, especially when the pedals are sensitive and give a lot of fuel at low throttle percentages where the program has the least commanded pressure.

The stock program only programs up to 90 when you punch the throttle from a stand still. And only up to like 20mph if at full throttle. Then drops to 56.

I know exactly how the system works, and also know that roughly 70 from the EPC gives virtually full line pressure(anything much over 60 is right there). You had said earlier in this thread that GM only used 56 psi of line pressure which is a false statement. And there is ALOT more to it's logic behind pressure rise and why it commands what it does when it does. To keep it simple, anything over 70 PSI from the EPC is considered near full line pressure. 90 is nothing more than to make certain it is cutting all power to the EPC to be certain of it. And if teh internals are built properly with a correctly modified valve body and pressure and boost valve, then you don't need more than stock pressure in most instances(some rare cases though do require it for certain areas). Added line pressure when it is not needed wil lsimply tear up hard parts and lead to higher trans temps along with cooler flow being diverted to the clutches instead of the cooler.

And GM only gave it 56psi line pressure at near full throttle. So imagine running a stock TCM and trans with turned up DB2 and boost, or fooling a stock PCM to allow more boost or a little more fuel but still same low tranny pressure. Or an aftermarket PCM that gives you a lot more fuel and allows more boost, but did not address the tranny. These are some of the issues the tranny has to deal with, starting with GM's conservative programming in just enough pressure and very litte temperature compensation to boot, until it was already too hot. The programming can get you over 100psi with modifiers, like tranny temp and shift modifiers. So I would say anyone with a stock PCM or normal performance mods doesnt really need a shift kit, they just need a reflash that addresses the tranny. And maybe just a sure cure kit for the common wear items.

There are special cases, like this one, where additional measures may be warranted.

 

[buddy]

If you knew it, you certainly didn't explain it. So thats why I explained it, and not just for you.

Each amperage to the PCS has a wide range of pressures. Just because one that youve seen has high pressure at 60 or 70, the next one might not be as high. The acceptable range is also given in the manual, and its wide. On the Torque Signal to Line Pressure graph, there is clear difference between 90 and 70 nominally. But the wide range of pressures that are acceptable could make them similar, based on the tranny itself.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

If you knew it, you certainly didn't explain it. So thats why I explained it, and not just for you.

Each amperage to the PCS has a wide range of pressures. Just because one that youve seen has high pressure at 60 or 70, the next one might not be as high. The acceptable range is also given in the manual, and its wide. On the Torque Signal to Line Pressure graph, there is clear difference between 90 and 70 nominally. But the wide range of pressures that are acceptable could make them similar, based on the tranny itself.

I wasn't trying to explain anything except that anything much over 60 gives near full line pressure. So the 56 psi that GM calls for does give sufficient line pressure for holding power 99.5% of all instances. Even in newer applications where the 4L80E is pushed to the max, GM still doesn't call for much more pressure than the 6.5 runs(a 4L80E behind a DURAMAX will only call for roughly 65PSI from the EPC on a full throttle shift in most cases, but can call for up to 87).

 

[buddy]

I wasn't trying to explain anything except that anything much over 60 gives near full line pressure. So the 56 psi that GM calls for does give sufficient line pressure for holding power 99.5% of all instances. Even in newer applications where the 4L80E is pushed to the max, GM still doesn't call for much more pressure than the 6.5 runs(a 4L80E behind a DURAMAX will only call for roughly 65PSI from the EPC on a full throttle shift in most cases, but can call for up to 87).

You did explain multiple times now that line pressure of 56psi line pressure is false, and its not correct, I grant you that, but you never explained the difference between commanded and actual pressure and what the 56psi commanded means.

I can also say with confidence, that there is a good noticeable difference between 70 and 90 in shift performance and firmness, but that may just be with stock trannys using stock converters. Tested on many trucks, in real life. Having seen how others also modify the programming, there must be thousands of 6.5s out there running well over stock commanded pressures. Depending on the gear shift and which stock calibration you look at, GM programmed in a shift modifier of -15 at low throttle to +31psi (torque signal) at high throttle, so up to 87. But that still doesnt feel the same as when commanding like 75 in gear with a 15 modifier. All OBD1 6.5s, including TCMs have the same base pressure table, but the subs, and 1500s had low shift modifiers compared to 2500 pickups.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Keep in mind that the tables you are looking at for trans pressure in the ECM code are NOT what the line pressure ACTUALLY is. Put a trans pressure guage on your trans and I bet you will find it is running 140-160 PSI of line pressure at WOT, not the 56 he says. In stock form they are capable of about 160-170 max line pressure(transgo HD2 kits raise that up top about 190), but they do fall off to about 70-90 during most shifts.

I did state here what actual will be close to when the 56 is commanded. I've had enough arguing with you as it never gets anything accomplished and is simply derailing the thread. If cumminsfever wants to continue it so be it as it is his thread.

You did explain multiple times now that line pressure of 56psi line pressure is false, and its not correct, I grant you that, but you never explained the difference between commanded and actual pressure and what the 56psi commanded means.

I can also say with confidence, that there is a good noticeable difference between 70 and 90 in shift performance and firmness, but that may just be with stock trannys using stock converters. Tested on many trucks, in real life. Having seen how others also modify the programming, there must be thousands of 6.5s out there running well over stock commanded pressures. Depending on the gear shift and which stock calibration you look at, GM programmed in a shift modifier of -15 at low throttle to +31psi (torque signal) at high throttle, so up to 87. But that still doesnt feel the same as when commanding like 75 in gear with a 15 modifier. All OBD1 6.5s, including TCMs have the same base pressure table, but the subs, and 1500s had low shift modifiers compared to 2500 pickups.