Bring it on! Att vs. Hx35

[Ozzie]

It looks like this is turning into another build thread...I'm liking it. What would you think about starting a new thread for the build?
The current one we have here (Cummins) (<--- that's a link) just got up and running...it's a really good thread and got loads of traffic.

 

[great white]

I'd be more inclined to add an intercooler under a scoop "A LA" mustang SVO or Thunderbird Turbo coupe instead of ram air for cooling way down in front of the rad support for trans coolers and such.......

 

[handcannon]

but if thay are bolted to the under side of the hood thay would need really long lines that would be under the hood and gathering heat! wouldnt thay??

Pete

Good question! I had not even thought about that. However, my first thought is probably no different than the aluminum and steel lines that are on top of the frame and right next to the exhaust manifold and the block. All that heat is being radiated onto the lines.

Up on the hood it would depend on how the lines were ran. I don't think it would be at all hard to place heat shields between the lines and the motor if it were found to be needed.

I don't think there would be very much difference in line length as they already go from the back of the block, along the frame rails, under the core support, and then up to the cooler. Inside the ram scoop the cooler would be maybe as much as 2' back from the grill, where they are currently located. The biggest concern I have would be designing in adequate flex in the lines to allow opening/closing of the hood.

The big plus to this would be removing two heat sources from in front of the radiator, which in good shape is already barely adequate for towing. Removing the tranny cooler in the passenger side tank would also take another heat source away from the radiator. I have no direct experience with it, but the 4L80E tranny apparently puts out a bunch of heat, which puts a lot of heat into the engine cooling system through the stock set up.

Don

 

[gmccrewcabdually]

It looks like this is turning into another build thread...I'm liking it. What would you think about starting a new thread for the build?
The current one we have here (Cummins) (<--- that's a link) just got up and running...it's a really good thread and got loads of traffic.

was thinking the same thing! but i dont know! maybe ill post the build in a nother tread and the hx instal hear!

Pete

 

[gmccrewcabdually]

Good question! I had not even thought about that. However, my first thought is probably no different than the aluminum and steel lines that are on top of the frame and right next to the exhaust manifold and the block. All that heat is being radiated onto the lines.

Up on the hood it would depend on how the lines were ran. I don't think it would be at all hard to place heat shields between the lines and the motor if it were found to be needed.

I don't think there would be very much difference in line length as they already go from the back of the block, along the frame rails, under the core support, and then up to the cooler. Inside the ram scoop the cooler would be maybe as much as 2' back from the grill, where they are currently located. The biggest concern I have would be designing in adequate flex in the lines to allow opening/closing of the hood.

The big plus to this would be removing two heat sources from in front of the radiator, which in good shape is already barely adequate for towing. Removing the tranny cooler in the passenger side tank would also take another heat source away from the radiator. I have no direct experience with it, but the 4L80E tranny apparently puts out a bunch of heat, which puts a lot of heat into the engine cooling system through the stock set up.

Don

and again interesting idea!! we will see where the ones on the red dually end up! probably not under the hood! but an interesting idea!

Pete

 

[Paveltolz]

Paveltolz
By the way, the link doesn't work.

Don

Sorry for the delay, I've been on the road. Anyway, That figures the link wouldn't work! I would have sworn I used the correct copy paste technique as outlined .....

Maybe this will work now. http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?23171-Getting-the-hot-air-out.

Not sure about the amount of free air the hood vents give. I just know that while the hood is warm after a run around town, the vents and air coming out are cooking (figuratively). Observation with the yarn attached was it flowed freely back over the hood at idle and low speeds. At 55 the yarn was pulled back inside the engine bay so it is drawing cool air in which too is a good thing.

 

[gmccrewcabdually]

QUOTE=Ozzie;296705]It looks like this is turning into another build thread...I'm liking it. What would you think about starting a new thread for the build?
The current one we have here (Cummins) (<--- that's a link) just got up and running...it's a really good thread and got loads of traffic.[/QUOTE]


YA!!! I was just thinking I would start a build thread!! this thread kind of turned hard left off topic!! fftopic:[ I think I will call it.... what should i call my build??

And another thread about under hood heat at some point!

 

[Acesneights1]

I'd be more inclined to add an intercooler under a scoop "A LA" mustang SVO or Thunderbird Turbo coupe instead of ram air for cooling way down in front of the rad support for trans coolers and such.......

That was done by a guy named scruffdog who never made it over from the old site but he claimed 160 deg IATs from 200's IIRC. I have long considered this option.

 

[great white]

That was done by a guy named scruffdog who never made it over from the old site but he claimed 160 deg IATs from 200's IIRC. I have long considered this option.

Ah, just went and had a look.

Yup, same principal as Ford used for their top mounted intercoolers.

Not a fan of his scoop choice.

Would grab lots of air though.....

 

[chris4521]

Dually Great carnage pics and I like your thinking.. but i think us youngins need photo documentation of the girl performing the work, for proof's sake of course.

 

[Acesneights1]

Ah, just went and had a look.

Yup, same principal as Ford used for their top mounted intercoolers.

Not a fan of his scoop choice.

.

Would grab lots of air though.....

We are on the same page...I thought the same thing. I was wondering it enough air flow could be had using a (functional) cowl hood

 

[gmccrewcabdually]

Dually Great carnage pics and I like your thinking.. but i think us youngins need photo documentation of the girl performing the work, for proof's sake of course.

LOL!! YA YA!! hade some shit with a family member some up so have not gone to the shop in a few days!! but ill get them coming!! LOL!!

Pete

 

[great white]

We are on the same page...I thought the same thing. I was wondering it enough air flow could be had using a (functional) cowl hood

Check my build thread for more info....typing now....

 

[midniteplowboyy]

Search "midniteplowboyy" here and at the Place for some info on the Holsets, check my garages for pics also. I also posted about what I used for my I/C install.

The turbo is pretty easy to install, hardest part for me was the air cleaner(3" hose dont fit a 4" turbo to well), fits the exhaust manifold perfectly, bend the oil drain slightly, get an adapter for the oil feed line(I posted the holset metric thread size some where) and build a new down pipe.

I run my WH1C for about 40k miles, until the crank broke the other day(damn dorman pulley). It ran real strong up top, didn't have that wall you hit that the GM# turbo's have, still pulling strong at 3500rpm wanting more if the IP would give it. No noticeable lag with the auto trans, a manual truck might be noticeable below 1300rpm.

I think mine would run with my 04 D-max(stock) in the quarter, I know the D-max has more power but think the allison sucks that much more power than the 4L80, plus it would have to shift through 5 gears and I'd only be in third with the 4L80. It wont tow with the D-max though, you cant cool a 6.5 enough, IDI engines put so much more heat(prolly twice at max power) in the cooling system since the combustion chamber is in the head, enstead of below it like a DI engine.

I'm not knocking the ATT, never ran one, it should be a great/efficient towing turbo being non wastegated, but for all around driveabilty I liked my Holset. I also had the Holset lying around so it only cost me around $100 and 6 hours work once I had all the parts.

 

[Slim Shady]

Been running a ATT A-Team Turbo for a little over 16,000 miles and no problems yet. Crank broke because of the Dorman pulley balancer??? Sure it had nothing to do with a lot of boost ?

 

[buddy]

At least we have another person willing to say theirs would run with the stock Dmax in the quarter! I have no cooling issues, unless youre trying to tow something over 10,000lbs I suppose. My truck doesnt even blink at hills with about 6000lbs. Maybe I limit myself to 80mph

 

[Turbine Doc]

We'll see with the new engine what mine will do, one in the truck rite now is too long in the tooth for me to push as hard as it can go now, but I think I can hold my own against a stock any flavor Diesel out there, but I don't want to blow a perfectly good running engine just now to see what it will do, as it will be the spare for both the 6.5s I run.

I can run all day long flat grades & long graded moderate hills pulling my g/n loaded to 18K# @ 70+mph with power on tap, no cooling issues whatsoever in 100F+ heat.

All that said up against a tweaked newer Diesel in newer Dmax power category, I'm not saying anything one way or another what the outcome would be, it would be an "interesting" run.

I ain't afraid of any HX-35'd 6.5 to be sure, and my ATT'd engine suffers from 0 drive-ability issues I've been running some form of ATT nearing 3 years now IC'd & non IC'd currently over 30K miles on one in it now.

 

[midniteplowboyy]

Been running a ATT A-Team Turbo for a little over 16,000 miles and no problems yet. Crank broke because of the Dorman pulley balancer??? Sure it had nothing to do with a lot of boost ?

Intercooled Boost was cut back to 15psi since install, plus 0.010" thicker headgaskets.

Not the harmonic balancer, but the pulley itself is what I'm blaming. When it happened I heard a ticking(like an exhaust leak) for a few seconds, then a bad vibration(like that couple seconds before a tire blows) for a few seconds(I'm thinking WTF), truck still running fine, crank broke as I was pulling on shoulder of the interstate. This all happened in about 15seconds.

The four spokes on the pully are snapped and you can see where it hammered back and forth, not a clean break from the crank coming to a sudden stop. I'm thinking the spokes broke and with only the rubber to support it, it got out of round putting the crank in a serious bind causing the vibration.

I havent tore it apart, I may never, its broke somewhere from #2 main forward, you can move the balancer all over the place, acts like is broke in the #1 main.

Debating on what to do with it, slap one of the old 6.2's or the 6.5 I have laying around in it and hope it runs awhile. Put a GEP optimizer in it. Swap a D-max or a cummins in it, since I've pretty much done everything I can to a 6.5. I'm thinking I want to put a P-pumped 12v I have in it if I can find a good manual transmission(its got a 47rh bolted to it now).

I wasn't knocking your ATT, I'm sure its a fine towing turbo with its looser turbine being nonwastegated should be more efficient under load. I was just trying to help the guy out with his install since he already had the HX35.

 

[midniteplowboyy]

Sorry, should have worded the drive-ability a little differently. Meant to say, drive-ability was fine for me with no complaints, much better than the GM# turbo's.

 

[turbovanman]

Bump, hehhehe.