Bring it on! Att vs. Hx35

[FellowTraveler]

delete

 

[robzombie4551]

Wow Rob, way to NOT READ what I wrote. Nothing was brought up about life or quality, and if you had cared to read what we were talking about, it was about wheel sizes. For someone who says he's open, that just bitch slapped you. I have no problems with a CKO, never have, never will but when you buy one, you have NO IDEA WHAT WHEELS YOU ARE BUYING, HELL, THE VENDORS DON'T EVEN KNOW.

That I will agree with you on.
There is confusion as to what you order and what you get as most sellers have no idea what they are selling and probably don't even know how to measure a turbo.

I didn't read your post the wrong way! Russian roulette is a game of chance that supposedly ends in death.

That post said nothing about wheel sizes being let's say a CRAP SHOOT not roulette.

If you don't want to be taken the wrong way be more clear.

RZ.

 

[robzombie4551]

Lets have a debate about turbo's rather than your biased anti ATT agenda.

0-60 in 15 seconds is NOT with *YOUR IP* or *YOUR* tune. It's with a 6.2 .29 plunger mechanical NA pump where the 6.5 IP's have .31 plunger pumps. The pump passes snap emissions with the fuel screw bottomed out - Now that is embarrassing. The pump is also in line for replacement in the future as it is wonky. So I need to blame the turbo for a 6.2 NA IP's lack of fuel delivery?

Got It.

Psst... The converter is keeping the engine in the ATT powerband and that is the point of the video. Getting the most out of the current pump.

Comparing two turbo's on the same engine and getting near the same power is proof that boost numbers alone is "hot air". 28 PSI without an intercooler, with plain 6.2 pistons, and no piston oil squirts would be asking for failure on my engine. Running higher boost required me to use synthetic oil. So lower boost via a bigger turbo and getting the same power while running conventional oil is saving me money.

But my goal isn't 0-100 or a race truck. It's cool that this is what you want to build and in that case Heath Diesel has us all licked on the salt flats with twin turbo's. I have been to therapy over that and now I am ok with faster 6.5 trucks out there. Besides that power level is rough on bending rods.

I have other goal in mind of extended towing of extreme grades somewhere near the speed limit with fuel economy above a gas engine. I haven't found trailer tires that are rated over 65 MPH so 100+ MPH isn't useful for me and is suicide on the mountain grades.

My goal in testing was to keep all things equal and the only change was the turbo so as to show the results that ANYONE can expect when installed on their truck.

I tested 7 tunes in total from the stock chip to the 6 way adjustable tune for a total of 7 different timing and fueling rates.

I believe that is very fair and honest in being representative of what can be expected from any owner who may try or have one of these turbos.

I didn't have a tune specifically dedicated to the CKO like you say, and even if I did the ATT should have beat the CKO in atleast one of them, the high fuel tune should have made the ATT shine but that wasn't the case.

As far you saying that I built/want a race truck, that is false. I actually want a truck that can tow without any issues at all andhave addressed the common issues of overheating and lack of power amongst the other common problems related to the 6.5 platform.

The only thing I have that most 6.5 guys don't have is the GEP engine which is unopened and still running the SMALL NA precups which is/should be a handicap for what I do with the truck.

As far as your excuses of how your truck performs maybe you should post vids when it's done being rebuilt and all the issues are taken care of.

When you do that maybe we could each post tests that are of the same nature to show where each turbo shines.

Some may like the ATT and I'm fine with that but I think the facts about it and any other turbo should be laid out for all to see so that they can make an educated decision of what they may want to try not just someones opinion.

RZ.

 

[6.2 turbo]

The small precups are not a handicap . Power and torque under 10 psi boost is probably doubled,compared to diamonds.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

OK, since this discussion is about facts, lets at least get the videos straight.

Heres WW's video of his. You can see in the video it isn't until around 1-2 seconds before he actually takes off, and he hits 60 right at 15 seconds. So that makes a 13.5 second 0-60 for a 6.2L engine in a K2500 with ATT.

NVW actually takes off right around 3 seconds and hits 60 at 15, so a 12 second 0-60 out of a basic 6.5L in a 3500 dually with ATT.

Heres Bowties 6.5L with a HX40II. You can see he actually takes off around the 4 second mark, and hits 60 at 15, so thats an 11 second 0-60 out of a far from stock 6.5L.

And RZ's stock tune which takes off around 26, and hits 60 around the 38 second mark for a 12 second 0-60 on his 1st run(the 2nd one looks to be about a 14 second run in this video).

And his performance video takes off around 26 and hits 60 at 36 for a 10 second 0-60.

So we have no HUGE spreads here in times from one truck to the other with the quickest of these going to a HX40, and the slowest belonging to the smallest CU IN and an ATT. The 3.42 gears is NOT a hinderance for these kinds of tests as it helps to load the engine harder and keep it under load, so 4.10's would actually be a hinderance for 0-60 times. This is how I can crack off sub 6 second 0-60's out of my BURB, while trucks with 3.73's require significantly more power than I have to do it. The only real thing these videos show is the HX40 spools quicker hence the quicker 0-60 times, and there has been no arguement that the KX40 will spool quicker due to it having a wastegate and smaller exhaust housing. There has also been tests run by a few members who have verified the ATT moves more air at lower boost and less exhaust back pressure. Several have now switched to different tuning, and found it has been quite beneficial to the ATT in lighting it off and improving the 0-60 times. As I have said before, it is not the turbo for everybody, but to come in and call it an underperforming POS that has no business being on a 6.5L is a rather biased one sided opinion.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

And as to the whole which is quicker, of the videos available to me I could find, the ATT wins. Heres TD's video from over 5 years ago doing a sub 10 second 0-60. This was with an early tune not optimized in any way for the ATT, an S engine, and a high mile 6.5L. I know he has done quicker times out of his truck than this one as well as I was riding with him for one of them.

 

[turbovanman]

One thing I'll add, I love the sound of these engines around 3500-4000 rpm with any of the upgraded turbo's above.

 

[bowtiebutler956]

Lets not forget Nate's run. I think its the fastest of all posted here. By my count, he's in the 8 second range. He's running an hx40 in his Tahoe.

Matt

 

[JayTheCPA]

Got a run with my 599 block just prior to knowing that it was a candidate for the carnage thread. I got 12 seconds 0-60 (as reported by the Edge) with a full tank, paste for oil (coolant contamination and lots of internal wear metals), shot injectors, a shot 4L80e (only things re-usable were the case and pump), and Heath's early work for the ATT. Sorry, no video.

Goal is to get a dyno report this summer using Dennis / KOJO's tune, a fresh motor, and a fresh tranny.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Lets not forget Nate's run. I think its the fastest of all posted here. By my count, he's in the 8 second range. He's running an hx40 in his Tahoe.

Matt

Thats a good run, but it's not the best comparison for the sake of the above videos. All of the above videos appear to be from a stand still without spooling the turbo, spooling it up before launching can easily knock 1-3 seconds off the 0-60 time. Not taking away from his run, just would be nice to have an even comparison. And I could post a faster 0-60 video of a 95, but it wouldn't exactly be an even comparison.

 

[Paveltolz]

This is all rather entertaining...like a train wreck. One hate to see what's happening and yet one just keeps looking. Thanks to those who have tried to keep it civil.

Anyway. It's good to see the regulars trying to stay out of the emotional game of it (and for the most part, succeeding). TheFerminator gets the Diesel Forum equivalent of the Nobel Peace Prize though. Giving a 12 second credit for a zero to 60 run that took a truck up to 26 seconds to actually start moving is generous in deed. Me, my timed runs always start from when the RPMs jump (throttle down) not 2 to 3 seconds later, especially when you're comparing turbo performance differences. But that's just me and I understand the trying to keep peace to this thread. Hang in there guys. I'm going to go back and look at any saved videos of my runs and see what the differences between Flash (throttle down) to Bang (forward movement) are across various turbo's and tunes. If I find anything worthwhile, is it ok with the OP if post a couple of runs with other than HX-40? and ATT turbos? Absence of a negative equals a positive so....

 

[bowtiebutler956]

Ferm, I'm sure you had to notice that my run was boosted. I very briefly brought it up to the torque converters stall, and let off the brake. On mine, it seems to be a wash, whether I'm boosted or not. If I'm boosted it always leaves spinning to 30+ mph. If I'm not boosted, it still usually spins some, but if it doesn't, it seems to be about the same 0-60.

Matt

 

[bowtiebutler956]

This is all rather entertaining...like a train wreck. One hate to see what's happening and yet one just keeps looking. Thanks to those who have tried to keep it civil.

Anyway. It's good to see the regulars trying to stay out of the emotional game of it (and for the most part, succeeding). TheFerminator gets the Diesel Forum equivalent of the Nobel Peace Prize though. Giving a 12 second credit for a zero to 60 run that took a truck up to 26 seconds to actually start moving is generous in deed. Me, my timed runs always start from when the RPMs jump (throttle down) not 2 to 3 seconds later, especially when you're comparing turbo performance differences. But that's just me and I understand the trying to keep peace to this thread. Hang in there guys. I'm going to go back and look at any saved videos of my runs and see what the differences between Flash (throttle down) to Bang (forward movement) are across various turbo's and tunes. If I find anything worthwhile, is it ok with the OP if post a couple of runs with other than HX-40? and ATT turbos? Absence of a negative equals a positive so....

Although its been a little rocky, I love the direction this thread is going right now. I would love to see some your vids Paul, as its always fun seeing a combo thats different than most. Although, nothing will be as good as the vids of you, and SS Force having fun.

Matt

 

[Paveltolz]

Thanks Matt, I do like the direction the threads headed which is why I've stayed out of it. I don't help jumping into spirited discussions. Appreciate the comment on SSForce's vids. Those were some fun runs and it does show the differences between his HX-35 and my "S-84." SS Force is coming over next week to get the ATT on as well as FTB and newer injectors. He'll have to post vids of solo runs cause my truck is still on stilts.

My vids that I do have are all pretty much 12-13 seconds with the S-84 running older tunes and heavy ass tires so no apple to apple or orange or even Pineapple comparisons to post up here. That's counting from 3-2-1-"Go" and not waiting the second or so to get moving. I've apparently long deleted any of the ones I took with the ATT or GM-5 but they were all pretty much the same...Ho-hum.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

This is all rather entertaining...like a train wreck. One hate to see what's happening and yet one just keeps looking. Thanks to those who have tried to keep it civil.

Anyway. It's good to see the regulars trying to stay out of the emotional game of it (and for the most part, succeeding). TheFerminator gets the Diesel Forum equivalent of the Nobel Peace Prize though. Giving a 12 second credit for a zero to 60 run that took a truck up to 26 seconds to actually start moving is generous in deed. Me, my timed runs always start from when the RPMs jump (throttle down) not 2 to 3 seconds later, especially when you're comparing turbo performance differences. But that's just me and I understand the trying to keep peace to this thread. Hang in there guys. I'm going to go back and look at any saved videos of my runs and see what the differences between Flash (throttle down) to Bang (forward movement) are across various turbo's and tunes. If I find anything worthwhile, is it ok with the OP if post a couple of runs with other than HX-40? and ATT turbos? Absence of a negative equals a positive so....

I was trying to watch them to see when the driver actually hit the throttle. When you have a 3 minute video, you have to watch it until they actually do a 0-60 run from a stand still. I know I rarely take off the second I start recording. For mine it is a bit much to keep mine straight with one hand holding the wheel, and the other holding the camera, let alone hit the record button the second I stab it. Thats the reason why I have no boosted launch videos as it takes both hands to keep mine straight in 4X4 under power(can't hold it in 2 wheel drive, just goes up in smoke). That and after I bent a tie rod end and twisted my driveshaft, the wife said no more beating on the family wagon.

 

[bowtiebutler956]

I was trying to watch them to see when the driver actually hit the throttle. When you have a 3 minute video, you have to watch it until they actually do a 0-60 run from a stand still. I know I rarely take off the second I start recording. For mine it is a bit much to keep mine straight with one hand holding the wheel, and the other holding the camera, let alone hit the record button the second I stab it. Thats the reason why I have no boosted launch videos as it takes both hands to keep mine straight in 4X4 under power(can't hold it in 2 wheel drive, just goes up in smoke). That and after I bent a tie rod end and twisted my driveshaft, the wife said no more beating on the family wagon.

Ferm, I don't suppose you have any vids from before the wife put the kibosh on the WOT runs. I know its not a 6.5, but I bet its a very lively GMT400. I know it would put our 6.5's to shame, but I don't care if I'm dead last in these vids, I love seeing what people do with their trucks.

Matt

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Ferm, I don't suppose you have any vids from before the wife put the kibosh on the WOT runs. I know its not a 6.5, but I bet its a very lively GMT400. I know it would put our 6.5's to shame, but I don't care if I'm dead last in these vids, I love seeing what people do with their trucks.

Matt

This was a non boosted launch before I added in my boost valve(was running 24 lbs of boost, but was still hazing, so I have it at 28 now), but not to shabby. Once I get into 2nd is when it really comes up on boost and starts pulling. I need to try out the 02 TCM operating system so I can enable lockup in 2nd instead of waiting until the 3-4 shift to finally get lockup.

 

[btfarm]

It's always nice when the kids leave the grownups table so the adults can get back to their conversation without those annoying brats disturbing everyone.

 

[bowtiebutler956]

I had to go copy, and paste a smiley just so I could properly convey my reaction to that video Ferm. Wow! Thanks

Matt

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

I had to go copy, and paste a smiley just so I could properly convey my reaction to that video Ferm. Wow! Thanks

Matt

Thanks, it's a tad quicker now with more boost and some tuning tweaks. Like I said earlier, 3.42's HELPS load the engine better, and tuning can make all the difference in the world. I had one tune in it that drove almost like a gasser with near instant throttle response, but it rattled a bit much for my taste. Also keep in mind I'm a bit heavier than most would think, just the BURB with a half tank and all the seats in weighs about 7050 pounds. Where the DURAMAX and 3.42's really shine is on the big end. 70 on up it just pulls hard all the way up to 120 where it shuts down.