Performance Tuning for the Tahoe

[RacinNdrummin]

Whoa Whoa Whoa... You guys all need to cool it down a bit... We are all here for the same reason... lets work it out in the numbers...

I will state upfront, without the intention of offending you GM guys, that these numbers are impossible out of a .29 or .31 DB2... The stroke is just too long, and the pump will hydrolock with ANY sort of timing adjustment... Not to mention that the duration of the injection event is just too damn long to produce any useable power with... I understand you guys feel TP pressure is the answer to filling the chamber, I disagree, the key to filling the chamber is Volume, not pressure... Thats why added fill ports are better than cranking the TP... You guys cant have correct timing with jacked TP pressure, and do it all without having it on a stand... Until you guys get a pump on the stand, you have no dog in the fight... You can claim all you want out of equations, and the math involved, but until you have a dynamic reading from a stand, your just spouting.... According to the "math" my .400" DB2 will put out 144cc at stock max stroke with a "2" leaf spring... And guess what, with added fill ports, it will probably do it to 3400RPM... You CANNOT do that with ANY sort of stock ported pump, it wont happen... Now I do believe that added stroke can deliver fuel, but the thing is, you have to take into account port over port duration when figuring it.... The Ports are spaced equally between the 8 cylinders with a bias towards the pumping side, they occupy every bit of surface area on the face of the rotor and head, as far as timing is concerned... The variable is cam ring advance... if your at max stroke on the cam ring, it leaves 0 degrees of cam ring movement to achieve full delivery at that stroke... You would have to totally lock the cam ring advance out at the perfect spot, to achieve full filling and pumping at RPM... Thats nearly impossible and have ANY sort of drivability to go with it... Think a gas engine with locked timing, but even worse... All that is assuming that your TP pressures can even fill the chambers at 2000 RPM (pump speed)... even at 250psi (which NONE of you are hitting with the TP) you cant fill the chamber at 2k with 2 fill ports on the stock rotor, its just impossible...

Get some papers with the pump on the stand, post them, and If you can prove what I just said wrong, I will admit it, and fully admit you guys are superior pump builders... until then, your nothing but a bunch of rednecks that like to tear into these things and make assumptions about what they are putting out...

BTW... I actually admire what 6.2 has done with the pumps, I like to read his results... However, there still isnt anything to prove what you guys are stating...

 

[littleboy]

Whoa Whoa Whoa... You guys all need to cool it down a bit... We are all here for the same reason... lets work it out in the numbers...

I will state upfront, without the intention of offending you GM guys, that these numbers are impossible out of a .29 or .31 DB2... The stroke is just too long, and the pump will hydrolock with ANY sort of timing adjustment... Not to mention that the duration of the injection event is just too damn long to produce any useable power with... I understand you guys feel TP pressure is the answer to filling the chamber, I disagree, the key to filling the chamber is Volume, not pressure... Thats why added fill ports are better than cranking the TP... You guys cant have correct timing with jacked TP pressure, and do it all without having it on a stand... Until you guys get a pump on the stand, you have no dog in the fight... You can claim all you want out of equations, and the math involved, but until you have a dynamic reading from a stand, your just spouting.... According to the "math" my .400" DB2 will put out 144cc at stock max stroke with a "2" leaf spring... And guess what, with added fill ports, it will probably do it to 3400RPM... You CANNOT do that with ANY sort of stock ported pump, it wont happen... Now I do believe that added stroke can deliver fuel, but the thing is, you have to take into account port over port duration when figuring it.... The Ports are spaced equally between the 8 cylinders with a bias towards the pumping side, they occupy every bit of surface area on the face of the rotor and head, as far as timing is concerned... The variable is cam ring advance... if your at max stroke on the cam ring, it leaves 0 degrees of cam ring movement to achieve full delivery at that stroke... You would have to totally lock the cam ring advance out at the perfect spot, to achieve full filling and pumping at RPM... Thats nearly impossible and have ANY sort of drivability to go with it... Think a gas engine with locked timing, but even worse... All that is assuming that your TP pressures can even fill the chambers at 2000 RPM (pump speed)... even at 250psi (which NONE of you are hitting with the TP) you cant fill the chamber at 2k with 2 fill ports on the stock rotor, its just impossible...

Get some papers with the pump on the stand, post them, and If you can prove what I just said wrong, I will admit it, and fully admit you guys are superior pump builders... until then, your nothing but a bunch of rednecks that like to tear into these things and make assumptions about what they are putting out...

BTW... I actually admire what 6.2 has done with the pumps, I like to read his results... However, there still isnt anything to prove what you guys are stating...

Oh my gosh........ another ***hole who doesn't trust anybody and says i know it all! :mad2:
At least i can trust the pump guy who benched 6.2turbos pump!!!!!!!!!!! GO away until you can find it within yourself to trust other folks word!

 

[Cumminsfever]

Hey. New guy. Have you any experience with camrings that aren't stock? Have you any experience with higher pressures? Have you any experience with modded timing?
I hear another numbskull like nmb2, who has ZERO experience down the line of actual modifying pumps, and instead sits back making fun of those of us DRIVING nicely running modified pumps with mods you guys CLAIM "can't be done".

Maybe you guys should sit down with some other pumps of similar design, and study them. It might help enlighten your "can't do" attitude.

 

[Mike K3500]

OOOOH ... Looky here, now we have NuMB skulls boyfriend in on the party... welcome to the show lilboy.

Gonna get real interesting now that both BFF's / stanadyne pump experts are here Harry Dunn and Lloyd Christmas...
NMB >> << Lilboy

 

[RacinNdrummin]

Hey. New guy. Have you any experience with camrings that aren't stock? Have you any experience with higher pressures? Have you any experience with modded timing?
I hear another numbskull like nmb2, who has ZERO experience down the line of actual modifying pumps, and instead sits back making fun of those of us DRIVING nicely running modified pumps with mods you guys CLAIM "can't be done".

Maybe you guys should sit down with some other pumps of similar design, and study them. It might help enlighten your "can't do" attitude.

Oh I can imagine the setup your "Non-stock" cam rings were created on, I bet it is a marvel of accuracy and precision... Please... Until you have ANY idea what your talking about dont spout what you dont know.... About this... Do you have any experience with actually cutting metal? Unlike you, I know EXACTLY how to modify the cam ring, I know EXACTLY how to change lobe duration, I know EXACTLY what its does to injection pressure...I know AS MUCH about one of these pumps, and their function, as well as what to modify as any one of you guys... Until you guys can post proof of ANYTHING you spout about, your just talking out of your ass, Just because you say you have a pump that puts out xxx cc's, and on paper, through backwoods selective calculation, you can make it say its putting out that much, doesnt mean its going to do that on a bench ... Show some pics of your Cam ring, I wanna see your witness lines where you "tighten'd up" the lobe duration...And while your at it, post pics of your upgraded input shafts, and cam pin mods... Proof is not hard to come up with, unless your just lying out of your ass...

I didnt want to come in here and get into the "mess", I just wanted to get into the discussion about pump outputs, thats all...So if your going to be childish and immature about it, save your comments, They are unnecessary...

 

[crash2win64]

Mike k3500 I think you mean NuMB skulls stooge is racinNdrummin and not littleboy lol

NuMB2 skull,

Really!!!??? REALLLYYYYY!!!!?????? You had to bring in another guy who does stock rebuilds and bases off of stock to do mods to prove your point!!!???? Or my next best guess is you created another account and posted from it.
And another thing I never heard somebody use the term mouth breather so much in my life except for idiot marines. I thought I was out of the military? It's jackasses like you who don't make the site enjoyable or worth even coming on anymore. Is it that inconceivable that somebody may KNOW MORE THAN YOU!!!!??????? It's a shame you turned this thread into what it has become honestly. If you actually think that you corner the market of knowledge on pump mods and rebuilding them why aren't you in business to do so if you know it all and are obviously the best? Hmmmmmm??????

But, your obviously best at being ignorant with the your way or the highway attitude you have so I suggest keep on doing that and take your drivel elsewhere bro

-Joe

 

[Mike K3500]

Yes I stand corrected.. I'm a lil tired, I meant RacinNdrummin NOT littleboy

My apologies to Littleboy.... Hope you forgive me.

NuMB skull >>>> <<<< RacinNdrummin

Those are the BFF's not Littleboy.. again my apolgies

 

[littleboy]

Haha Mike it's all cool !! :thumbsup: I love that pic! It fits so good!!!

To the other numbskull2 , your attitude precedes you!!! It's all about me. This site will never be bettered by people who say , i know more than you ,i know this ,i know you can't do that, i doubt you,etc...... Take your i attitude and go away . This site is about US and learning and helping!!!! The best people in the world can still learn from a little child.... We may bench our next pump but the shop we use has no print out . Just the mans word. Thats all i need!

 

[Cumminsfever]

Oh I can imagine the setup your "Non-stock" cam rings were created on, I bet it is a marvel of accuracy and precision... Please... Until you have ANY idea what your talking about dont spout what you dont know.... About this... Do you have any experience with actually cutting metal? Unlike you, I know EXACTLY how to modify the cam ring, I know EXACTLY how to change lobe duration, I know EXACTLY what its does to injection pressure...I know AS MUCH about one of these pumps, and their function, as well as what to modify as any one of you guys... Until you guys can post proof of ANYTHING you spout about, your just talking out of your ass, Just because you say you have a pump that puts out xxx cc's, and on paper, through backwoods selective calculation, you can make it say its putting out that much, doesnt mean its going to do that on a bench ... Show some pics of your Cam ring, I wanna see your witness lines where you "tighten'd up" the lobe duration...And while your at it, post pics of your upgraded input shafts, and cam pin mods... Proof is not hard to come up with, unless your just lying out of your ass...

I didnt want to come in here and get into the "mess", I just wanted to get into the discussion about pump outputs, thats all...So if your going to be childish and immature about it, save your comments, They are unnecessary...

With all this knowlege, why don't you make a pump put out 400cc? Or even 300? Even 200 would be accomplishment

Correctly knowing how to modify a pump is the key here. With correct mod, stock parts hold up quite well.

I can't take pics of internals of a pump that is on my truck and running. Neither can 6.2turbo.

 

[Cumminsfever]

Oh I can imagine the setup your "Non-stock" cam rings were created on, I bet it is a marvel of accuracy and precision... Please... Until you have ANY idea what your talking about dont spout what you dont know.... About this... Do you have any experience with actually cutting metal? Unlike you, I know EXACTLY how to modify the cam ring, I know EXACTLY how to change lobe duration, I know EXACTLY what its does to injection pressure...I know AS MUCH about one of these pumps, and their function, as well as what to modify as any one of you guys... Until you guys can post proof of ANYTHING you spout about, your just talking out of your ass, Just because you say you have a pump that puts out xxx cc's, and on paper, through backwoods selective calculation, you can make it say its putting out that much, doesnt mean its going to do that on a bench ... Show some pics of your Cam ring, I wanna see your witness lines where you "tighten'd up" the lobe duration...And while your at it, post pics of your upgraded input shafts, and cam pin mods... Proof is not hard to come up with, unless your just lying out of your ass...

I didnt want to come in here and get into the "mess", I just wanted to get into the discussion about pump outputs, thats all...So if your going to be childish and immature about it, save your comments, They are unnecessary...

With all this knowlege, why don't you make a pump put out 400cc? Or even 300? Even 200 would be accomplishment

Correctly knowing how to modify a pump is the key here. With correct mod, stock parts hold up quite well.

I can't take pics of internals of a pump that is on my truck and running. Neither can 6.2turbo.

 

[littleboy]

With all this knowlege, why don't you make a pump put out 400cc? Or even 300? Even 200 would be accomplishment

Correctly knowing how to modify a pump is the key here. With correct mod, stock parts hold up quite well.

I can't take pics of internals of a pump that is on my truck and running. Neither can 6.2turbo.

:hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi: Thats because he is so busy telling us what to do or not to do.....

I wonder......... is there last names Obama?

 

[nmb2]

If you actually think that you corner the market of knowledge on pump mods and rebuilding them why aren't you in business to do so if you know it all and are obviously the best? Hmmmmmm??????

But, your obviously best at being ignorant with the your way or the highway attitude you have so I suggest keep on doing that and take your drivel elsewhere bro

-Joe

You clearly haven't been keeping up. Mouth breather.

With all this knowlege, why don't you make a pump put out 400cc? Or even 300? Even 200 would be accomplishment

Can't do it. Same reason you dont.

Correctly knowing how to modify a pump is the key here. With correct mod, stock parts hold up quite well.

More magic voodoo from you. Liar.

I can't take pics of internals of a pump that is on my truck and running. Neither can 6.2turbo.

How convenient.

:hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi: Thats because he is so busy telling us what to do or not to do.....

I wonder......... is there last names Obama?

How long did that take you to come up with? Don't burn any hair using your thinkin' machine.....

Frank Zappa once said: "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." You guys are a prime example of this.

I understand... you guys are intimidated, and that's why you are so defensive. Racin' and I have brought up some key points that debunk your claims and now you feel backed into a corner. I went into this knowing that like everything, people look at situations differently... and I have to learn to accept and appreciate that. However, this has gotten ridiculous.... none of you have provided any merit to your claims. Just a bunch of hillbillies jacking screws on an injection pump and making up numbers.

In all seriousness... you people will destroy your vehicles and spend more time and money on uneducated guessing. I pray that nobody wastes their money on anything you build.

 

[nmb2]

Also, Littleboy. English M-F! Learn to speak and type it. Its hard to take anyone serious who lacks basic spelling and grammar.

 

[OrionThade]

Careful boys, the lion is stretching and brought his lionness along for the ride ...

 

[nmb2]

Careful boys, the lion is stretching and brought his lionness along for the ride ...

Congrats. Another worthless post from you.

I couldn't help but notice your sweet mods list. How much power did the clear fuel line add? It must pull like a raped ape.

 

[littleboy]

Nmb2, i have a question. Can you flood your engine with the pump you have built?

 

[OrionThade]

Congrats. Another worthless post from you.

I couldn't help but notice your sweet mods list. How much power did the clear fuel line add? It must pull like a raped ape.

Yes, that's exactly why I put clear line on. You got me. I figured clear line would worth an extra 25 horses at the wheel.

:rolleyes5:

 

[nmb2]

Watching the video posted again. It seemed to me in the video posted of 40psi, that the engine made a lot of noise but the speedo didn't really move..... Then I seen this in the preview box when done:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fAE6dpN8bs
If this is a current acceleration video, I feel bad. My truck that weighs more, and has a 5spd will pull 2 seconds faster in the 0-60. That was with 292rwhp/614rwtq. The point of me bringing this up... is that regardless of pump specs, or anything else.... that gives me a clear indicator at the amount of power the engine is not making. That engine is a turd, no matter how much boost he can manage to pop up on his gauge.

 

[OrionThade]

Watching the video posted again. It seemed to me in the video posted of 40psi, that the engine made a lot of noise but the speedo didn't really move..... Then I seen this in the preview box when done:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fAE6dpN8bs

If this is a current acceleration video, I feel bad. My truck that weighs more, and has a 5spd will pull 2 seconds faster in the 0-60. That was with 292rwhp/614rwtq. The point of me bringing this up... is that regardless of pump specs, or anything else.... that gives me a clear indicator at the amount of power the engine is not making.

Because we all give a rats *** about you think.

Seriously, you and your girlfriend up there have already worn out your welcome here. You clearly have nothing to learn from the little guys that love their inferior engines and we clearly couldn't give a rats *** less about anything you say, so what's the point of hanging out here? Not getting enough attention at home?

 

[nmb2]

Because we all give a rats a$$ about you think.

You obviously don't care what I think, what Racin' thinks.... or about simple physics. Gosh damn proof, logic, and reasoning. These properties don't exist in 6.5 land! Home of the magical injection pumps!