And the GMTDScanner Says

[NVW]

What I did was just place the bolts in the holes and use a large screw driver to pry on the bolts, not fancy but it works.

 

[Big T]

That's what I ended up doing, but it's not pretty doing it and that's how I ended up slipping and breaking the CTS.

 

[chrisk1500]

Jump the connector for the CTS with a paperclip...this will allow you to do the timeset...

 

[bison]

Alright, I'll order a new CTS (Coolant Temperature Sensor). In no hurry now, so I'll ship it slow boat.

I tried making a tool for moving the IP. A flat plus some 3/8" bolts. I placed the bolts in the IP holes with some sealant on the heads and then placed the bar against them to get an idea of where to drill holes. I took a measurement between the centers of the two marks and it came out to 60 mm. I drilled two holes 60mm apart and they did not line up.

Can someone provide an actual measurement of the distance between the centers of those two holes?

Actual measurement is 46mm inside between the bolt shanks,not center to center.

here's a pic of the tool i made

 

[buddy]

Nice work on that Bison.

Jump the connector for the CTS with a paperclip...this will allow you to do the timeset...

I know that this makes the PCM think its not cold, but then I dont know what else the PCM will do thinking it is 300 degrees. It will have a higher idle because thats in the programming. So it may work, but I dont know what other affects just shorting it will do. It may also alter timing at higher temp, the same reason we generally dont want to set it cold. Better to have a 300 ohm resistor to jump it or the CTS itself for doing TDCO.

 

[Big T]

Ordered the CTS from Rock Auto. They had several to choose from, including two from AC Delco, one specifically for 4wd. Not sure that 4wd makes a difference with a CTS?

When I did not have connection on the CTS, it showed up as -35 F on GMTDScan. I immediately thought of AK and what he puts up with near Fairbanks. :nonod:

Thanks Bison on the measurements for your IP tool. :thumbsup: I should have planned ahead so my welding guy could make that after doing the bending on my 15mm wrench. I'll get that done one way or another.

I will not be working on this until next weekend or when I get the CTS. I'm just hoping that I resolve this. It's been snowing in the local mountains and it's expected to snow all this week down to 2000' elevation. Would like to get up there next weekend with the pooches, as they really love the snow.

 

[buddy]

It snowed on me at Yosemite in October at 6000ft, and we climed into it even more. I might have to take a trip to Big Bear for New Years if we get good real snow.

 

[ak diesel driver]

I'm actually closer to Anchorage ,Jamierayo is very near Fairbanks

 

[Big T]

OK update time here. Got a chance to play with this after putting up the Xmas lights.

Installed new coolant sensor. Drove truck around the block and got coolant temp to 190. Moved IP all the way to driver's side which is where my scribe lined up with the chisel mark. Hooked up GMTDScan. Time Set stays on indefinitely and I have to shut it off manually. I did get the TDC Learn to run and shut itself off. TDCO still at -2.02. Now I'm getting a new DTC code 81. DTC Codes are:

34 - Timing stepper motor fault
81 - Shift solenoid 2-3
88 - TDC offset error

Now each time I go to clear codes, I get "Error could not clear memory".

The 81 shift solenoid code is new. Indeed it will not shift from 2nd to 3rd, which means I'm topping out at about 45 mph. I checked transmission fluid and it's at the bottom of hot fill. I lost some fluid each time I pulled the radiator, so this is not a surprise. Not sure if this has anything to do with DTC 81.

I moved the IP towards the passenger side. No real change other than noting the actual timing shifted down a degree or two. Went from 15 - 18 to 14 to 18.

TDC Learn then never stopped and I had to shut it off manually. Got the same "Error could not clear memory" message. Engine is hard starting and blows tons of grey smoke when cold.

Again, completely lost as to what to do. The transmission DTC is just adding insult to this as I was having no transmission problems before I did this work and I was not even near the transmission. Hard to imagine that I'm at this point after changing a timing chain and a water pump. Is my timing still set incorrectly in the engine?

 

[Mudbath]

You could be in limp mode, my tranny before a major service would set shift solenoid codes if really cold (like now -30° C) It did once put truck in limp mode which really freaked me out as I thought the tranny was poached. Just disconnect both batteries for a half an hour and should be fine. This should blow away any other codes too. You may even reset a code that isn't visible in GMTD Scantech and solve the problems you are having setting timing. Good luck

 

[Big T]

I disconnected the batteries.

The driver's side positive terminal is F'd up. I did the recommended battery post mod and theres a sleeve in the positive side that just holds onto the bolt and spins. I finally used vice grips to pull the bolt out and the sleeve came with it. It's a two year old Die Hard and I'm taking that back. I hate those side post batteries and I think the battery post mod falls into leaving well enough alone. The batteries will be disconnected for a week as I'm working in Vegas this week.

 

[Mudbath]

If you didn't have BAD luck you wouldn't have any luck at all!!!!

 

[buddy]

when you say actual timing which one are you referring to? Actual injection pump timing, or the "actual injection timing" in timeset?

if its reading 14 in timeset mode, then you are way too advanced, you have to get that around 3.5, which is more towards passengers side.

If reading 14 when in timeset mode I would venture to bet in the dashboard mode you can see an idle "desired injection timing" of around 8 degrees and "measured injection timing" of 14, becuase you advanced the pump so much it cant get back to 8 anymore. You will read a TDCO of -2.02 until you get it back to under 4 degrees actual injection timing in timeset mode.

actual injection pump timing will read around 28-30 degrees.

 

[Big T]

when you say actual timing which one are you referring to? Actual injection pump timing, or the "actual injection timing" in timeset?

if its reading 14 in timeset mode, then you are way too advanced, you have to get that around 3.5, which is more towards passengers side.

If reading 14 when in timeset mode I would venture to bet in the dashboard mode you can see an idle "desired injection timing" of around 8 degrees and "measured injection timing" of 14, becuase you advanced the pump so much it cant get back to 8 anymore. You will read a TDCO of -2.02 until you get it back to under 4 degrees actual injection timing in timeset mode.

actual injection pump timing will read around 28-30 degrees.

Before I do timeset it reads 8.5 Desired and 14 to 18 actual, mostly 15 to 16. When I turn on timeset, Desired goes to 0 and the actual stays the same, 14 to 18, mostly 15 to 16.

So to confirm my next order of business:

1) Clear codes from memory by disconnecting batteries (done).
2) Move IP towards passenger side until Actual gets back under 4 degrees in timeset mode.

I had some luck, battery was still in the free replacement period, so got a new one free. I bought these batteries in August 2007 in Fairbanks, AK.

 

[Mudbath]

"I had some luck,"

Your luck maybe has change...lets hope your on a roll now!!!!!

"Before I do timeset it reads 8.5 Desired and 14 to 18 actual, mostly 15 to 16."

Maybe concentrate on getting these closer BEFORE you go into Timeset.

From the Engh Site

- What steps do I need to take to set TDCO?
Start GMTDScan Tech.
Connect to your truck.
Go into the dashboard view and verify that the engine coolant temp is at, or above, 180 °F. If not, wait before proceeding.
Go into the DTC view and verify that no trouble codes are present.
Go into the TDC view.
Take note of the current DES/ACT/TDCO values. OEM is +3.5°/+3.5°/-0.5°.
Click the TDC Time Set ON button. DES should now read 0° and ACT should read +3.5° on average.
Click the TDC Time Set OFF button to go back to normal operating mode.
Click the TDC Learn ON button. The TDCO value will now fluctuate for about 20-30 seconds before setting itself. You can end the sequense prematurely by clicking the TDC Learn OFF button. The current TDCO value will then be set in the PCM.
If you are not happy with the TDCO you get you must turn the injection pump. Towards the drivers side is "+" and towards the passenger side is "-". A 2mm move equals 5° so take it very easy and do not attempt to turn the injection pump while the engine is running!
Repeat the TDC Learn procedure until the TDCO you want is attained.

 

[buddy]

That note in red is actually wrong though, it should never read 3.5/3.5/-0.5

It should read 0/3.5/-0.5 stock in timeset mode.

However at just idle in the window you should see what most stock programs tuned for idle timing which would be about 8.5 degrees desired and actual/measured should be the same. So you would see 8.5/8.5/-0.5

So BigT you are correct. you want to turn the IP to the passenger side until its about 3.5 degrees in timeset mode with a desired of 0 degrees. For performance you can get it closer to 3.8 degrees actual while desired is 0. Which will yield around -1.5 TDCO when you go to learn it. clear the codes with GMTDScanTech is possible before learning TDCO. If you cannot delete DTCs with the scanner, there is a manual procedure using a jumper on the OBD port and the accelerator and brake pedal.

 

[Big T]

That note in red is actually wrong though, it should never read 3.5/3.5/-0.5

It should read 0/3.5/-0.5 stock in timeset mode.

However at just idle in the window you should see what most stock programs tuned for idle timing which would be about 8.5 degrees desired and actual/measured should be the same. So you would see 8.5/8.5/-0.5

So BigT you are correct. you want to turn the IP to the passenger side until its about 3.5 degrees in timeset mode with a desired of 0 degrees. For performance you can get it closer to 3.8 degrees actual while desired is 0. Which will yield around -1.5 TDCO when you go to learn it. clear the codes with GMTDScanTech is possible before learning TDCO. If you cannot delete DTCs with the scanner, there is a manual procedure using a jumper on the OBD port and the accelerator and brake pedal.

OK now this is becoming clearer. I will revisit this next weekend.

 

[TxRattle]

Just to help you visualize it, you are trying to set the timing within a window.

-2.02*...........0...........+2.02*

The stepper motor can move the timing back and forth. By physically moving the IP to the passenger side or to the drivers side, you are changing the origin point of stepper motor movement. For example, if you physically move the IP in the middle of the window, the stepper motor can vary the TDC offset throughout the full range of the timing window.

A TDC Offset reading of -2.02 degrees means ONLY that you are outside the window. There is no way to tell how far out you are. The PCM can only count to 2.02.

To set the TDC offset, the computer must sense that you have "no codes" and a water temperature greater than or equal to 180*.

Hope this helps.

 

[buddy]

Just to help you visualize it, you are trying to set the timing within a window.

-2.02*...........0...........+2.02*

That is TDCO of course, not timing exactly. And the TDCO learn will work at 170F.

 

[chrisk1500]

Need to ensure that stepper motor is working properly....watch the stepper as someone revs the engine up and down....