And the GMTDScanner Says

[NVW]

It's on the pass side of the IP, the ECM controls it, it changes the internal timing of the IP by rotating the cam ring. It may be seized. It's hard to see but try to have someone rev the motor and watch it's movement if any.

 

[Big T]

It's on the pass side of the IP, the ECM controls it, it changes the internal timing of the IP by rotating the cam ring. It may be seized. It's hard to see but try to have someone rev the motor and watch it's movement if any.

I'm lost.

There's something on the outside of the IP that moves?

 

[Big T]

It's on the pass side of the IP, the ECM controls it, it changes the internal timing of the IP by rotating the cam ring. It may be seized. It's hard to see but try to have someone rev the motor and watch it's movement if any.

I'm lost.

There's something on the outside of the IP that moves?

Why would this seize. I merely pulled the timing cover off the engine. The IP stayed in place. I never touched a stepper motor, let alone even know where it's at. This IP was running perfectly fine before I started this work. It seems to run pretty good driving it around the block or two to warm it up. It does blow a bit of white smoke particularly on a cold start-up. I'm very frustrated to get to this point after merely changing a timing chain and water pump. I'm thinking I ruined a perfectly good truck.

If this IP is down, then this truck will be down for quite awhile. I may in fact just buy a friend's '02 Ford Excursion with 7.3 Powerstroke. Tired of this IP crap on these engines.

 

[NVW]

IDK if it's seized, it was just a thought on why your timing would not change

 

[Big T]

Sorry, just extremely frustrated with this.

I'm over a grand into this job and clearly worse off for doing it. I'll regroup and call Heath on this next week.

 

[NVW]

No prob. You don't seem to be making a connection or something if the timing can't be changed, that or the stepper is seized or just sticky. I'm now leaning to a bad connection or grounds. Even if the stepper were stuck, the learn procedure should work.

 

[buddy]

I think youre still OK, you have to realize that you can move the IP a lot and it will stay at -2.02, because thats what it says no matter where the IP is if its less than -1.94.

So move it a lot towards the passengers side to go more positive. There is a timing mark on the timing cover (a protruding wedge), where the IP bracket corner should about line up with.

Ive never had time set go that long, but doesnt mean it cant happen I guess, and stopping it should be fine. You should be aiming for a value of 3.5-3.8 in there. And it doesnt matter if you just stop it. I have turned it far enough to get 16 degrees as the lowest time set value, so way too far advanced. When that happens, you can get a PCM desired timing of 8 degrees and the measured is 16 Effectively the base cam timing.

It might be that it never stops because the stepper motor cant step it low enough, because the IP is too far advanced, too far turned towards driver side. So stepper motor might be fine. Just make a major change in passenger side direction. DTC88 can be tricky to resolve. Also, if DTC88 is being sticky like that, try clear DTCs again just before hitting TDCO learn.

Since the CTS is just a variable resistor, if you have a 300 ohm resistor laying around, you could short the CTS harness with it and the truck would think its at about 180F.

 

[Big T]

No prob. You don't seem to be making a connection or something if the timing can't be changed, that or the stepper is seized or just sticky. I'm now leaning to a bad connection or grounds. Even if the stepper were stuck, the learn procedure should work.

My son helped me with the initial tear down. We were placing stuff in baggies with labels dropped in, but some of the stuff such as brackets and the ground from the driver's side battery, he did not label. I have that ground currently attached to the rear stud of the horizontal portion of the alternator brackt. That stud goes into the head, albeit with a painted bracket between it.

 

[NVW]

One more thought, the timing cover has been off 2x now. Is the CPS connected?

 

[Big T]

One more thought, the timing cover has been off 2x now. Is the CPS connected?

CPS was pulled from timing cover, but not disconnected the first time. Second time, I just disconnected it at the plug by the IP and left it in the timing cover as I only had to remove gasket sealant. It is plugged back in near the IP. Others have pointed to or implicated the CPS. I had to pull on the wires while pushing from the inside to remove it the first time.

I just went out and checked all the wiring. Everything but that broken coolant sensor is fine. Is the stepper motor about 3" back from the lower IP nut on the passenger side? There's a black round cylinder there with a plug on top of it. If it is, it would be very difficult to watch it move while revving the engine, as I can barely see it.

 

[NVW]

IIRC a mirror may be necessary. Personally I've never had a reason to look at it.

 

[bison]

Mebby we need to back up a little bit.
Big -T,what was the problem with the truck before you swapped chains?
What codes did you have that time?

 

[buddy]

You can see in GMTDScan if your OS and CPS are in agreement. If not you will see crank counts missed or cam countrs missed. And a DTC17,18 or 19 will show up.

turning IP toward passenger side would be my first move.

 

[Big T]

Mebby we need to back up a little bit.
Big -T,what was the problem with the truck before you swapped chains?
What codes did you have that time?

No codes. I had a small coolant leak that dribbled down the driver front side of the engine. It appeared to be from the '97 water pump which had 100+K miles on it. I also was experiencing higher than desired engine coolant temps when driving up to our place in the local San Bernadino Mountains during August and September. Base elevation for the highway is about 1500' and highpoint is 7,000'. I was hitting 220 to 225 F on certain stretches at 40 mph, without towing. EGTs were kept below 1200. Based on that scenario, I decided to install the Heath Cooling Upgrade.

While I was in there doing the cooling upgrade, it was suggested here that I install a new timing chain. Some here suggested that I would have to reset the timing if I replaced the chain, others said that would not be the case.

The existing chain was original and had about 3/8" of slop in it. I had a hard time installing the new timing chain, despite using the reference how to do with pics both here and at DP. I got it back together and had a hard time starting it. I assumed it was timing related, so I took it to the dealer. Dealer said they could not set the timing because the timing was incorrectly set internal to the engine.

I then asked what to do here, should I tear it apart. The advice was to buy GMTDScan before I do anything, especially tearing the engine apart again. I did and reported the results here. I could not set the timing and the TDCO was stuck at -2.02.

I then called Todd at Heath and described the problem. He said the codes I was seeing were consistent with the timing being improperly set internalloly. He advised me how to properly set it. I pulled it apart again and indeed found that the timing sprockets were off by what appeared to be two teeth on the lower sprocket. So I removed and reset the timing chain by moving the crank until the marks on the upper and lower sprockets lined up. Then I installed the cam timing gear (lower one) and (based on Todd's advice) rotated the assembly (chain in place and sprockets on their respective keys) until the mark on the cam timing gear (not the sprocket) was at the 12 o'clock position. I then went to install the IP timing gear. This required rotation of the IP via the main nut on the pump shaft until the gear could be installed with its mark lined up with the mark on the lower cam timing gear. (question: did I do this wrong? Should I have moved the cam sprocket mark to 12 o'clock, then install the gear and move that to 12 o'clock? I figured that since the gear slid on over the key and that the sprocket mark was irrelevant at that point as you were aligining the marks on the two timing gears which only go on one way). I used Missy's tech reference post here and post #17 in this thread at DP for reference:

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=327013&page=2

I put it all back together and find myself at the current position. No matter which direction I move the IP housing, I get -2.02 TDCO. Twice I've seen a TDCO of 0 at the outset, only to see it revert back to -2.02. The rest of the time it opens at -2.02. It's hard to start, taking several attempts. It blows a lot of grey smoke while cold and warming up. I can drive it (to warm it up), but the performance is not what it used to be. And as you might detect, I am very frustrated with this.

 

[Big T]

You can see in GMTDScan if your OS and CPS are in agreement. If not you will see crank counts missed or cam countrs missed. And a DTC17,18 or 19 will show up.

turning IP toward passenger side would be my first move.

I've turned the IP toward passenger side. No change in the output, but it smokes a lot more on the start up.

Where in GMTD Scan do I see crank counts or cam counts?

DTC 17, 18, and 19 are not showing up.

 

[buddy]

In GMTDScan you can see cam reference missed, or crank reference missed, you have to select it in the dashboard view. Or it shows up in the snapshots you can take.

So in short would you say that you lined the marks up to be 12 crank, 12 cam, 6 IP?

You lined up the cam and crank then spun it so cam was at 12, and lined up the IP gear with the cam gear. so that would be 12, 12, and 6. Which is correct. And the IP should go in the oval hole of the timing gear.

When you move IP to passenger side, getting 0 is fine. Just make sure it is warmed up, and the computer needs the sensor thats broke to know its warmed up. run time set, what do you see in time set? clear all DTCs, then run TDCO learn.

 

[Big T]

In GMTDScan you can see cam reference missed, or crank reference missed, you have to select it in the dashboard view. Or it shows up in the snapshots you can take.

So in short would you say that you lined the marks up to be 12 crank, 12 cam, 6 IP?

You lined up the cam and crank then spun it so cam was at 12, and lined up the IP gear with the cam gear. so that would be 12, 12, and 6. Which is correct. And the IP should go in the oval hole of the timing gear.

Correct. Spun the crank until the cam was at 12, installed came gear which also had its mark at 12, then installed the IP gear so that its mark at 6 and meshed with the mark on the cam gear.

There was at least one time when I did a Time Set and it appeared to shut itself off and then TDCO option became available.

Right now can't do anything with the broken coolant temp sensor. I will order that from RockAuto (like $16), but was waiting to hear if I need to also order a CPS?

 

[bison]

So far what you did was correct
IMO.The broke CTS however may prevent time set as the temp reading may be off

 

[buddy]

yep, sounds like that broken CTS is just messing with your head.

When doing time set note the measured timings (it will flucuate up and down some). It will put in a desired timing of 0 and PCM will step it to as low as it will go which is what you will see in the measured, where you want to see around 3.5 degrees.

 

[Big T]

Alright, I'll order a new CTS (Coolant Temperature Sensor). In no hurry now, so I'll ship it slow boat.

I tried making a tool for moving the IP. A flat plus some 3/8" bolts. I placed the bolts in the IP holes with some sealant on the heads and then placed the bar against them to get an idea of where to drill holes. I took a measurement between the centers of the two marks and it came out to 60 mm. I drilled two holes 60mm apart and they did not line up.

Can someone provide an actual measurement of the distance between the centers of those two holes?