210 hot or NOT?

[iamdave0887]

Hmmm......The municipality this truck came from used NAPA....Damn, and I had the system drained to...I didn't think it mattered so much on duals.

I've had Napa stats in my 96 for almost 4 years now. No issues, and no overheats if the factory gauge is indeed correct.

 

[jrsavoie]

One of the people that worked on our 98 installed Napa stats. It never overheated but it never got to proper opperating temp either.

Other than the Stewart's I've had nothing but bad luck with aftermarket Stats. I wasted a fair amount of money and time on them

 

[schiker]

clipped.....

Jim:

Could get 1050+ F anytime I wanted with throttle on the passes. I limited myself to no more than that.

Keep in mind, I was driving only three gauges; egt, water temp and fuel gauge. Didn't give a whit about speed. I got what I got.

Everywhere else ( including some long uphills elsewhere along the route) it runs anywhere from 190-205. Spends most of it's time around 205-ish. Pretty much able to ignore egts and just give it more load pedal when I wanted more speed.

Throw on the water and it stays down around 190-200 no mater how stupid you get with throttle.
This is all with the 8000lb travel trailer in tow.

My truck:

New optimizer from GM parts
New water autozone pump (bill told the shop which one to get)
Stock 98 clutch
Stock 98 steel fan (9 blade?can't remember)
Rad was boiled and cleaned
Tstats are about a week old and ac delco dual setup
Heath PCM with "hill decent assist" (converter lockup)
Heath TM
New stock Bosch injectors sourced from Bill while I was there
4" diamond eye with straight through muffler
2.5" warpspeed crossover pipe
Stock k47 box with a k&n drop in

Take it for what it's worth gents

Those are 2 big advantages over the avg OE 6.5. Lower IAT with water injection with some extra mass to help EGT. Cooler IAT reduces the turbo "air pump heating/boost" heat load and lower compression to reduce engine "air pump heating". They can combine to reduce the thermal load on the engine coolant and you see a reduction in ECT.

Didn't Pennisular demostrate they had a hard time keeping a OE 6.5 cool when producing the GM rated horsepower for an extended time. IIRC they are a proponent of reduced compression ratio when increaseing fuelrate and horsepower output for extended times.

And why I was saying a 6.5's heat seems to compound and increase thermal load on the EC faster than other pickups. And further the discussion of knowing the stages of cooling than just answering 210F is not necessarily hot and ok in and of itself. But you have to know how and why it has gotten there; if it should be there and/or when its likely to hold steady or increase further, and finally what other indicators are high too.

 

[Acesneights1]

And yet Heath is the opposite. He said not to lower compression. Boat engines don't have these issues anyway as they are way better cooled. My burb has it's last chance Firday. If the JK fan doesn't keep it in check, off to eBay it goes and a Stroke or Cummins will be sittin in it's place. Reading GW's whole thread has only reaffirmed that I would and have never taken any of mine more than 4 hrs from home towing. I figure that is about as far as it's still worth it to drag it home vs junk it where it is if it dies...:rof:
I'm starting to believe now more than ever that the best setup is a DB2 and NV4500. The DB2 puts out less fuel but also puts out less heat. God I wish my 93 was a Dually ec.
Instead it's a head turning monster driven by a pathetic old man trying to relive his youth...:suicide::rof:

 

[schiker]

And yet Heath is the opposite. He said not to lower compression. Boat engines don't have these issues anyway as they are way better cooled.

Not necessarily. It depends on application. I think Heath is ok with lower compression for heavy long term towing and/or HO. And I think he likes stock compression for daily driving occasional towing. And depends on ratio I think Heath likes medium compression 19:1 or 20:1 not the low 18:1 Pennisular suggestion.

Boats do have nearly unlimited cool intake water but its not a full pressurized system with anti boil characteristics of some antifreeze. Boats can overheat with radical HP if not set up properly. And I think that is what lead Pennisular to investigate lower compression and more boost with high rpm's for thier extra high performance motor models.

 

[Big T]

Boats do have nearly unlimited cool intake water but its not a full pressurized system with anti boil characteristics of some antifreeze. Boats can overheat with radical HP if not set up properly. And I think that is what lead Pennisular to investigate lower compression and more boost with high rpm's for thier extra high performance motor models.

Boat diesels are typically freshwater cooled with a heat exchanger to the saltwater cooling side. So yes, unlimited cool water from the ocean (or lake), but through a heat exchanger to cool the captive freshwater. The freshwater side will be pressurized and they typically use a mix of water and antifreeze (non-phosphate type).

Unlike a truck diesel which pulls varying loads at varying speeds/rpm. A boat diesel typically pushes a load at a constant rpm and it pushes it through or on top of water which has a much higher level of friction than rolling over a road. In short, boat diesels work hard and heat up fast. Experience a problem in the cooling system and they can heat fast. I remember going out at night and was chatting while exiting Mission Bay. Suddenly, the overheat alarm goes off and I'm showing 220 climbing to 230 fast. Suspecting kelp on the outdrive intakes, I threw it into reverse to blow that off, then watched as the temp steadily marched downward. I'm lucky as I know my engines. Imagine some poor unsuspecting cocktail cruiser? That engine would have been fried.

 

[great white]

I would say heaths compression has not much to do with cooling and more to do with how the comet chambers work....

 

[schiker]

Boat diesels are typically freshwater cooled with a heat exchanger to the saltwater cooling side.

I am not a salt water mariner by any means. I am more use to smallish fresh water pleasurecraft fresh water lakes stuff < 24 foot in the warmer climates. And I am use to stuff that is raw water cooled not the closed loop with heat exchanger. And assume the 6.5 is more a pleasurecraft motor not bigger commercial or larger yatch sized powerplant. Not sure but think the 6.5 is more raw water cooled than closed loop ???

A good while back I read about a Pennisular study with a large (tractor) truck radiator dyno setup with plenty of BTU capacity and the 6.5 was hard to keep cool with stock compression ratio just generating rated 190 HP. I remember asking Jim on "The Page" if they adequately cooled the oil too and he thought yes they did.

 

[schiker]

I would say heaths compression has not much to do with cooling and more to do with how the comet chambers work....

I think the high compression is kinda a double edged sword. When cold/warm and/or light load the high compression builds good hot cylinder temps for injection -> combustion. With good hot combustion chamber temps fuel burns fast and the IDI flame throwers and swirls the cylinder with the riccardo comet chamber action. But then as fuel rates increase and boost increases the TDC cylinder temps get hotter than needed to produce the IDI riccardo comet chamber action and it just adds unnecessary excess heat to the head and piston. On "The Page" iirc I thought it was portrayed as super heated TDC cylinder temps with high boost (especially non intercooled), high fuel rates, and high compression.

This is ok for short durations and moderate levels but for extended time or higher load levels it heat soaks the head and then puts a lot of BTU's into the coolant heat soaking the whole system. And another factor why I say the 6.5 heat load "compounds" on itself worse than other Diesels.

I am not saying its the only factor and of course the water pump flowrate and radiator have to be up to par. But I feel the compression ratio is just another part of the story towing or with an extended drag on the engine.

 

[Crankme69]

I agree with the compression is a double edged sword. :agreed:

At Mikes meet & greet I recently had the honor to meet with Jfair & listen to his personal experiences towing heavy with a 6.5. The meet was fabulous, I met many wonderful folks from this site, makes me very proud & grateful to be a member here with you all.

We also recently had the experiences shared with us all from BJ Great White with his trip issues pulling with a high milage 6.5 East bound & down post, thanks BJ & what a relief that you have finally made yr final destination, thank God for small blessings.

I also have a high compression air cooled Vtwin that I tinker with. More experiences with high compression motors & how very tight the operating window gets when we start squeezing the compression tighter. Yes it increases performance & efficiency but it also tightens the window that they will operate / tolerate tuning wise.

I put this post up because I was disappointed in my 1st experience towing & I had no where near the load that can be accomplished with everything set up correctly.

TUNING along with all the feedback that has been kindly shared here will provide what is required for our beloved 6.5 to meet most any needs. It's just dam shame that the window is soooo tight but it can be done as demonstrated by many.

Thanks to all that chimed in here with feedback & here is wishing us all many more trouble free 6.5 miles.

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

At Mikes meet & greet I recently had the honor to meet with Jfair & listen to his personal experiences towing heavy with a 6.5. The meet was fabulous, I met many wonderful folks from this site, makes me very proud & grateful to be a member here with you all.

Jim was in the IL.?.....Jim you came to the US?

 

[btfarm]

Jim was in the IL.?.....Jim you came to the US?

Where the Heck ya' been hangin' out Louis? :hihi:
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?30477-GTG-July-17th-Sycamore-DeKalb/page2

 

[Acesneights1]

That is still a long way from us....

 

[JiFaire]

Jim was in the IL.?.....Jim you came to the US?

Yep! I had a fabulous time at the GTG with the guys... and really enjoyed chatting with Greg (Crankme69) about making a 6.5 pull like a champ. There is just no easy one thing we can do, but there are lots of little things that add up!

Too bad you weren't there, but Brooklyn is a looooooooooooong way from Chicago!

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

Where the Heck ya' been hangin' out Louis? :hihi:
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?30477-GTG-July-17th-Sycamore-DeKalb/page2

Obviously, not in Sandwich.....Boy I would have loved to be there.....Looks like you guys had a great time....I'm really jealous!......But Happy for you guys...

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

That is still a long way from us....

Yea, and there Pizza isn't anything to speak about either!:hihi:

Yep! I had a fabulous time at the GTG with the guys... and really enjoyed chatting with Greg (Crankme69) about making a 6.5 pull like a champ. There is just no easy one thing we can do, but there are lots of little things that add up!:BDH: Ya Think!:hihi:
Too bad you weren't there, but Brooklyn is a looooooooooooong way from Chicago!

Maybe one day.....::skep::ANGRY_~317:

 

[Acesneights1]

Jim travels all over . If you can make it to anywhere in New England someday, we'll make it work.

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

Jim travels all over . If you can make it to anywhere in New England someday, we'll make it work.

Definatly!......We still got a date at Dave's or your house when my GM coolant tabs (Hopefully, well before that) decide to give out......I'm gathering parts (Of all sorts) to do the stuff I don't trust anyone else to do....Really looking foward to meeting you, Dave and any of the other NE gang.

Besides we have a lot in common, your originally from NY (L.I.) and even mentioned my work Stomping grounds, said you used to go for stone in East New York (Bklyn) or something like that.....And then there are the 6.5's, IMO anyone who owns and drives one is related in a Sadistic way right from the get go, no matter where you're geographicly located! :WTF::mad2::skep::agreed::rof:

 

[Acesneights1]

yep, used to run sand down your way all the time to Linden Mason Supply. it was an experience for sure...tryin to jack 22 wheels into that place. Never forget working down at Kings County Hospital when the coalition showed up and shut the job down...wanna see a whiteboy do Smokey and the bandit ??? I hammered that crate till I hit Staten Island...:rof:

My offers still stand as long as we can get a date that works for us.

 

[iamdave0887]

yep, used to run sand down your way all the time to Linden Mason Supply. it was an experience for sure...tryin to jack 22 wheels into that place. Never forget working down at Kings County Hospital when the coalition showed up and shut the job down...wanna see a whiteboy do Smokey and the bandit ??? I hammered that crate till I hit Staten Island...:rof:

My offers still stand as long as we can get a date that works for us.

Ditto on the offer. Right now i'm doing a Saginaw 4-spd swap on my father's 1971 Camaro in place of the TH350, so i'll be busy with that for a bit but once that's done i should be all set save for my normal job.

Just one thing. It'll be BYOB if you want anything. I'm not a drinker. I have enough health problems without that. Bring food too if you guys want. I've got a grill here and i'll make sure the propane tank is full once we set a date.