210 hot or NOT?

[Brooklyn Tow]

My 7.3 never runs hot.....FWIW

Since my collision last year I've switched back to my "original" fan clutch and 6 blade......Neeedless to say, only in traffic or standing still do I creep up to 210-220*.......I just picked up Hayden Severe duty fan clutch and a 21" D-Max blade as I was running before the accident and I could stand still on a 95+ degree day or stop and go traffic and never see temps over 195-200*......

With that said, my rad and condenser are clean (Brand New) and I might even try the 20" steel blade first to see if it keeps temps in check......BUT with my old setup I didn't get the "Rock Steady cooling" till I added the D-Max 21"......Plain and simple the D-Max blade just moves A LOT more air.....IMHO

 

[Acesneights1]

I have the Dmax fan on order. My 93 has the 6 blade junk so I'll put the dmax fan and spin on WP on the Burb and then recycle the 98 WP and the 9 blade steel to the 93.

 

[schiker]

My 7.3 never runs hot.....FWIW

I don't know much about Ford and the 7.3 has a good reputation but is it the typical Ford guage with no real numbers on it and if so I wonder how much the ECT does fluctuate?

OK I am on the chicken side of things for ECT. But after some more thought hmmm 210F probably isn't that hot. I have seen 195 ish ???? just due to ambient, AC load, and light load.


The 6.5 is really a niche motor and can't really compare it to others that closely. 210F ECT is not in and of itself that big of deal its only 10 degrees hotter than a factory stat. But I don't like the combination of high compression and elevated ECT (and high IAT). I feel like that advances timing and hammers the bottom end. AT what point is it a concern? Isn't it 215 or is it 220F Heath advises don't exceed ? And how close can you read your gauge. I am not sure I can tell difference in 215 and 210 so to me its a feel thing and watch the combination of guages EGT, boost, and fuel rate.

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

I have the Dmax fan on order. My 93 has the 6 blade junk so I'll put the dmax fan and spin on WP on the Burb and then recycle the 98 WP and the 9 blade steel to the 93.

You won't be dissapointed.....Gauranteed 100%.....you seemed to like the 20" steel IIRC, from your previous posts......All I can say is that I tried the kennedy clutch and "John" went on about "testing and how the 20" and his clutch was the best match/setup, well not for me, it was the difference between a good 10-20* cooler after I installed the 21".

I don't know much about Ford and the 7.3 has a good reputation but is it the typical Ford guage with no real numbers on it and if so I wonder how much the ECT does fluctuate?

The Ford has a gauge, but instead of "Numbers" 160*, 210*, 260*.......It has a bottom line, a space, the word "Normal" from 1/4 to 3/4 on the gauge, another space, then a top line......I would imagine the middle of the gauge would be about the 210* mark like our 6.5s have.

The gauge sits right between 1/4 and a 1/2 and NEVER moves......Even pulling 2 vehicles in stop and go traffic with the A/C on (Also Fords have great A/C, ICE cold).....Hope that answers your question or at least you get the idea of what/how the gauge is setup.

 

[Turbine Doc]

Ahhh...but your not towing the 18k gooseneck with your burb either.... I got to see that Balance flow and thought it was pretty neat actually. Where it ties into the therm housing, is it pre thermostat or post ? I don't remember. If I could tig weld I'd make it myself. Hardest part is the bung in the housing.

No but will be with the truck eventually & no balance flow reqd with the latest version of the Heath pump-stat-fan combo, go thru the pictures thread I'm sure a pic of it it there Kenny I'm 400 miles from the truck on a turbine job for rest of the week,.

IIRC the bung is between both stats, and on single stat version it is at outlet of stat but I'll have to confirm that when I return home & look at my single stat manifold I have as IIRC the single stat & BF combination with an OE style pump is supposed to work best. For me to know if BF really makes the difference I'd have to put everthing pretty much back to stock and just run the BF setup, and start adding stuff back into the loop.

My personal conjecture is the additional trans cooling & deeper trans pan upping total capacity for trans to 22Qt is what allows things to stay cooler in my setup, with premise of less heat from the trans to the rad, for rad to deal with is keeping temps in check, but few tow in the 18K weight class with their 6.5s.

One member who has been longtime MIA is Mr. BuckBuck towing with his 6.5 in the La oilfields with his 6.5 flatbed 4:56 dually gears, only mods clean rad & an ATT hauling 30+K of pipe year round with out 100+F days and he was happy as a clam last time I talked to him 2 years ago.

 

[handcannon]

So anyone got data on how many rows they got ?
Orrum, your's should be easy to count. Take the rad cap off and look in there. The 94+ trucks are a likttle harder to see as no rad cap.

My stock 94 alum & plastic rad is two row, 7/8ths" tubes. I'm currently running what must be a 93 brass and copper rad that I found used, but in good shape and then cleaned by a local rad shop. It was set up identical to the alum rad except for type of metal. If my memory is any good it is a four row. I still have my old alum rad (minus one tank) if any more info is needed.

Don

 

[schiker]

The Ford has a gauge, but instead of "Numbers" 160*, 210*, 260*.......It has a bottom line, a space, the word "Normal" from 1/4 to 3/4 on the gauge, another space, then a top line......I would imagine the middle of the gauge would be about the 210* mark like our 6.5s have.

The gauge sits right between 1/4 and a 1/2 and NEVER moves......Even pulling 2 vehicles in stop and go traffic with the A/C on (Also Fords have great A/C, ICE cold).....Hope that answers your question or at least you get the idea of what/how the gauge is setup.

Not really knocking the Ford as again the 7.3 does have a good reputation but I have heard the Ford guages are somewhat comparable to an "analog/needled idiot light" and tend to not really track with indicators that well (and or who knows what the resolution of the guage is).

The 7.3 probably can handle way more load and not run hot but I suspect the coolant temp does increase some (5-20??? degrees over stat temp) But with the lower compression, more oil, and bigger overall design of engine, and cooling system the fluctuation isn't that bad and less danger of running hot than the 6.5. But be careful comparing the 6.5 to other engines and designs there are other important indicators not just ECT.

 

[Acesneights1]

When I moved to CT I loaded a 16 equip trailer on the back of my stroke and it had 2 tractors , a cement mixer a bunch of Cobblestones tool boxes,suffice to say it was squatting and it is a dual axle 5 ton trailer.

The bed of the truck had 100 gals of fuel, and the rest of the bed was filled to overflowing with firewood and I had an 8ft Western unimount plow hangin off the front and I drove from LI to CT in 90 degree heat and that Stroke's needle never moved from where it would normally be.

That truck was a brute. a 6.5 will never compare in that aspect. In fact it out towed my 24v Cummins as well.

Last year my 6.5 Dually broke down on the side of the highway with the camper on the back and had to be towed. My 77 yr old Mother came to my rescue with my father's 2000 7.3 PS F350 and it was Mid 90's and brutal out.

That stroke towed that camper like there was nothing there. Again, needle stayed where it always was. So far the best of the 6.5's has been my burb and the only mods(mandatory IMHO) was the 4 inch exhaust.

I personally don't think the crossover does squat either. I looked in mine and ran something through it and it was not criushed or separated so I put it right back on. I have a bigger custom made crossover on my 93 and my burb with GM8 spools way faster than the GM4 on my 93.

I know the IP has it's role as well but I am not sold that a bigger crossover does anything.

ON a very happy note, the rad guy just called. Rad is done. 600$ total with CT outrageous sales tax. I will hopefully install it tommorow.

 

[Big T]

Hard to say which portion of the Heath cooling kit contributes the most: water pump or composite fan. The '95 already had the HO water pump and the dual crossover T-stats, but the crappy 6-blade fan. The '99 has the 9-blade steel fan and I'm going to put the Duramax composite fan on it for extra measure as that fan does move a lot of air.

 

[nobby]

I dunno if I got upset every time the ECT went up on an engine because of a big load coming on then I would not really get any sleep at night! This is a lighter duty diesel with as already discussed coolant issues and to try and lock it down to 195 or whatever or get upset because it does not do that is somewhat futile. It's not uncommon for whatever diesel to do this like I said goes with the territory although sure for better built units usually they run a wee bit cold till the load comes on.

Granted I have not suffered a catastrophic failure on my 6.5 due to possible ECT issues but still with the 3.42's and a load plus a hill I expect it to climb and am OK with that. Like I said before it's more about what it does rather than specific numbers (level off or keep climbing).

I am not knocking/commenting anyone trying to mod, like I said prior trying to keep things in check is a good thing. Merely commenting further on the initial querying and subsequent discussion as to what is too hot etc.

It's is an interesting side note that gauges can be a negative as well as a positive I.e to much info. As already commented plenty of work 6.5's out there working hard every day and the driver has no idea what his EGT is or really never looks at the ECT so perhaps when we lift off still keeps on going with no ill effects.

 

[NVW]

I dunno if I got upset every time the ECT went up on an engine because of a big load coming on then I would not really get any sleep at night! This is a lighter duty diesel with as already discussed coolant issues and to try and lock it down to 195 or whatever or get upset because it does not do that is somewhat futile. It's not uncommon for whatever diesel to do this like I said goes with the territory although sure for better built units usually they run a wee bit cold till the load comes on.

Granted I have not suffered a catastrophic failure on my 6.5 due to possible ECT issues but still with the 3.42's and a load plus a hill I expect it to climb and am OK with that. Like I said before it's more about what it does rather than specific numbers (level off or keep climbing).

I am not knocking/commenting anyone trying to mod, like I said prior trying to keep things in check is a good thing. Merely commenting further on the initial querying and subsequent discussion as to what is too hot etc.

It's is an interesting side note that gauges can be a negative as well as a positive I.e to much info. As already commented plenty of work 6.5's out there working hard every day and the driver has no idea what his EGT is or really never looks at the ECT so perhaps when we lift off still keeps on going with no ill effects.

Some times "ignorance is bliss"

 

[schiker]

Thanks for the discussion I am just enjoying the forum and thinking about it different ways.

That's kinda my point you probably see a normal rise in temp with load and or with AC/high ambient. Most radiators and especially the 6.5 can't hold the temps rock steady. Seems many radiators again especially light to medium duty ones are only meant to handle short duration heavy loads. And really can only sustain maybe ~75% full power continuously.

Its my understanding there are probably 3-4 stages of cooling level. 1. Cold 2. Warm enough to open stat then stats will modulate open closed and a bit of variance of opening speed and some openess variance allows a variance of flow through engine to hold engine at ~ stat temp. 3. Stats opened to max ( a few degrees over Stat temp) and then radiator temp will climb. The climbing radiator temps will increase heat rejection to air because of the delta T of air to ECT. 4. Last stage is when coolant fan locks up and pulls max air through stack.


So then Level 3 is where we see coolant temp rise (stats open but before engine fan engages). How much ECT rise we see is dependant on how good the radiator is vs how much heat it needs to reject. I suspect with the 6.5 non intercooled and high compression the increase in heat from engine is more severe and a faster rise during step 3 than other engines. Just looking at IAT with boost the air pump action is adding heat that has to be removed by ECT that other trucks with intercoolers aren't getting. And they can enjoy level 2 and level 3 cooling with less worry because the heat isn't "compounding". And how much heat rejection difference is level 3's range? Depends on flowrates. At 30-40 degrees increase in delta T for the air to coolant exchange with our small radiators isn't going to cool the difference in heat load heavy vs light. Vs other trucks that don't see as large of heat load difference from light fuel rate vs heavy. Again ours is almost compounded due to high compression, lack of intercooler, and smallish turbo.

So a guy like me that is running a stat at 180F watching a climb to 210F seems more like a building runnaway (a 30 degree rise in temp) vs a stat that opens at 195F. So the waiting for the engine fan to start level 4 cooling seems more important. But is 210F ECT that hot probably not but apparently with the 6.5 that has suffered more heat casualties we have to be more cautious and know what is happening or we may look down and ECT has climbed further to 220-230F rather quickly and that I think that is approacing hot for the 6.5. Mabye not momentarily but sustained I think is bad. Not that much comfort zone for level 3 cooling. And hence the 6.5's niche market to sell faster engaging fans.

 

[schiker]

Feel free to correct me.

And I think most are saying level 3 is not linear to just increase in delta T of ECT to air temp.

There is another factor.... the hotter it gets the faster the fan should spin. Or the hotter it gets the less slip the fan clutch should have.

At least I don't think the fan goes from what 80-90 % slipping to lock up exactly over a few degrees difference does it ?????

So how fast does level 3 take to traverse and what fuel rate took it completely through level 3 cooling ???? And one should know what level 3 is on the ECT guage.

For the 6.5 from what I have read and believe "level 3" should be stat temp to 215-220F what ever your stat temp be it 180F or 195F.

 

[orrum]

Duhhhh I gotta ask if any yall ever see how bad them powerstrokes heavy butt engines and 4wd apparatus bust them front ends up???? Farmers around here have lots of them and the front tires start splaying n leaning out and its so exspensive to fix them that the farmers just flip the tires over and remount them and wear the other half of the tread off! LOL I aint joking, I keep waiting to see one on the side of the road with whatever is worn out busted loose and the wheel laying on down the road! LOL I coulda had a nice running 7.3 4x4 non turbo crew cab from my buddy for scrape price but turned it down, too much money to rebuild.

 

[jrsavoie]

I'd be all over that
How much does it cost to rebuild the front end? I thought an 80's GM front differential could be swapped in

Duhhhh I gotta ask if any yall ever see how bad them powerstrokes heavy butt engines and 4wd apparatus bust them front ends up???? Farmers around here have lots of them and the front tires start splaying n leaning out and its so exspensive to fix them that the farmers just flip the tires over and remount them and wear the other half of the tread off! LOL I aint joking, I keep waiting to see one on the side of the road with whatever is worn out busted loose and the wheel laying on down the road! LOL I coulda had a nice running 7.3 4x4 non turbo crew cab from my buddy for scrape price but turned it down, too much money to rebuild.

 

[Acesneights1]

Duhhhh I gotta ask if any yall ever see how bad them powerstrokes heavy butt engines and 4wd apparatus bust them front ends up???? Farmers around here have lots of them and the front tires start splaying n leaning out and its so exspensive to fix them that the farmers just flip the tires over and remount them and wear the other half of the tread off! LOL I aint joking, I keep waiting to see one on the side of the road with whatever is worn out busted loose and the wheel laying on down the road! LOL I coulda had a nice running 7.3 4x4 non turbo crew cab from my buddy for scrape price but turned it down, too much money to rebuild.

You are referring to pre Super Duty with IFS. Ford's IFS in those trucks sucked as. IIRC (Atleast in the 80's anyway) a straight axle from a late 70's was a bolt in remedy. Super Dutys have Huge Straight axle front ends and are stronger than anything out there.

 

[Big T]

Drove up to Big Bear Lake last night towing nothing. 1500' at the base, 7100' at the summit. Highest the ECT got was two ticks over 185. For the most part it stayed at one tick over. Highest the EGT hit was 900. Highest boost was 12 psi. On flat level freeway going 70 mph the EGT is at 400 to 450 and boost is at 2 to 4 psi.

Even with these #s, I'm still going to put the Dmax fan in, replacing the steel 9 blade (anyone want it?). The transmission on the '99 has a deeper cast aluminum pan with cooling ribs. I'm curious whether the added transmission fluid volume and cooling has an impact on the engine cooling. The tranny ran at 140 on the FWY and hit like 170 going up the mountain.

I love blowing around gasser SUVs in the passing lanes, making them look like they're standing still.

 

[Acesneights1]

I just got my Dmax fan and I gotta tell you it looks cheesy to the factory steel but I'm gonna try it. All I know is I can bend the blades on the dmax fan, I can't bend them on a steel one.

 

[Big T]

I just got my Dmax fan and I gotta tell you it looks cheesy to the factory steel but I'm gonna try it. All I know is I can bend the blades on the dmax fan, I can't bend them on a steel one.

Wait until you install it before passing judgement. It'll blow so hard you'll name it Katrina.:hihi:

 

[buddy]

I just got my Dmax fan and I gotta tell you it looks cheesy to the factory steel but I'm gonna try it. All I know is I can bend the blades on the dmax fan, I can't bend them on a steel one.

I believe that to be intentional. Its lighter, and at low RPM its an aggressive pitch so it pulls a lot of air at idle, and then as it gets going faster and full lockup they can bend and not be so aggressive pitch so they arent pulling way too much horsepower from being too high of drag.