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Yet another 6.5 build --- this one for towing

ak diesel driver said:
be interesting to know that spec and compare it to normal. Should give some rough idea how effect the coating is. It's not that I don't believe it works but there's nothing like data. I might even have to see about getting myself set up to do it my self.
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Well, I can put the piston in the oven and warm it up some, not real hot, and pour some clean oil in it and the oil will look like water does on a waxed car, it almost beads up on it, and when the oil moves off the part and not just hangs there, it moves the heat faster, and that is what I am doing it for, to help move heat.
 
It does look nice.

I admit to being very new to this level of detail so correct me if I’m wrong but if the ceramic coating works wrt oil shed, then wouldn't the 5 gr. oil weight your machinist used pretty much null out giving you a final Rotating Weight of 1560.4 gr and a Final Bob weight of 3196.2. vs the original weights of 1565.4 and 3201.2 respectively? One could speculate a new number to use as a factor but it would be arbitrary.

I've been trying to get my head around the numbers you have and comparing them to the ones I got for my balancing. So, if I’ve got the differences in terms of reference between our machinists correct,(Insert vs. Rod Bearing; Rod small end vs Rod Reciprocating etc.) then we came out pretty close with a Bob Weight Total difference of 22gr... 17 if one takes away the 5 grams for oil shed.

As long as it all balances though and as this is a GM/Detroit Diesel world and not Walgreens (“Land of Perfect”) so we have Harmonic Balancers.:hihi:

Like I said, I'm just trying to get this info straight. Hopefully you'll get some cam data from Red to help you decide on which cam to go with before it gets buttoned up.
 
The numbers you see are corrected for the coating, they did cut some weight from what they claim is oil weight on the rotating parts, how much I don't know, I wasn't standing at the computer at the time, and they do it all the time so I didn't question that part...

The rods were very far off from each other on both ends, the pistons were right on, one thing they couldn't get over was how big the pins were..... and as for the HB, I have a fluidamper to use...
 
Fluiddampers were always a no no from engine builders I've talked to. Especially since our cranks already like to bust...
 
crash2win64 said:
Fluiddampers were always a no no from engine builders I've talked to. Especially since our cranks already like to bust...
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I wouldn't want that builder doing my work, everyone I know of here that is doing any kind of motor work always uses them, I would like to know there reason for telling you not to use them ?????

I think using a fluidampr has been proven to help save a crank..... I will tell you that the rods & crank in this GEP motor were so bad out that I would guess that there lies some of the reason motors come apart, but that is just my thoughts....
 
I would trust that engine builders stuff over anybody else's actually. It was due to the fluid changing from different temperatures. Enough to turn me off of them and that's hearing from the one engine builder and 2 different very reputable machine shops in the area. I sent my stuff off to ATI to have a custom balancer done for me but they didn't have anything readily available at the time I was looking and it was before I went into the military so it just wasn't a good time for myself. My builds been going on for almost 2 years now though so lol.
 
You have to know what the fluid is to know if its going to be an issue when hot or cold. And I am guessing those guys dont know, and havent looked up the physical properties. And then you must ask yourself, does the fluid viscosity really matter, when its mass you only care about. As long as it doesnt stick to surfaces and still moves around unrestricted like a liquid, then the mass gets where its supposed to.

Those guys just have to know you can't balance an assembly with a fluidampr.
 
I don't quite know "who's guys" you are referring to Buddy, my people didn't use the fluidampr while balancing, they knew I was going to use it but would not need it to balance things ??? Are you saying they should have??
 
I think what buddy is saying is that the fluidampr works when the motor is rotating under its own power, but for balancing, the OEM type dampr is used. why, I cant really explain, but it has to do with the fluid and the intertia ring, rather than a fixed assembly bonded with rubber.

IMO, diesels need a fluid type damper. Cummins seemed to agree on our 855 BC3, as do most big diesel makers. I really dont care about the whole changing temp thing, as what do you think rubber does in 100 degrees, or 20 below? the rubber will be affected, maybe not as much as a fluid, but it will be.

sct, great looking build thread, hope it does what you hope as far as HP!
 
i just meant the machinists or engine builders that think fluidamprs are bad, need to know they dont work while balancing. if they tried it might contribute to their misunderstanding them.
 
Thanks, I think that is what Buddy was saying also, just thought that if I was missing something I needed to know is all. I think, and hope my shop knows what they are doing, with all the big money motors there, mine was chump change compared to them :unitedstates:


I was typing while you were Buddy, that is what I thought.....:thumbsup:
 
My machinist has been around longer than a day and knows not to use a fluid dampener while balancing the rotating assy....it won't work. SCT, I know what you mean about the rods and such be so out of whack... Diesel Depot sent such a messed up crank...suffice it to say, the machinist was baffled but very pleased with himself to be able to get it right. I trust him and my builder. The motor will be just fine for many a year with a Fluid Dampener on it.
 
I actually talked to a tech at fluidamper about the cold affecting the fluid. I was told they are used in aircraft application where temps can get really cold and no issues with them. Was basically told it won't ever freeze up
 
sctrailrider said:
I wouldn't want that builder doing my work, everyone I know of here that is doing any kind of motor work always uses them, I would like to know there reason for telling you not to use them ?????

I think using a fluidampr has been proven to help save a crank..... I will tell you that the rods & crank in this GEP motor were so bad out that I would guess that there lies some of the reason motors come apart, but that is just my thoughts....
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I know it's not a 6.5, but several DURAMAX's have broke cranks with FLUIDAMPERS installed on them, put them back to together with an ATI and no more problems. The DURAMAX has proven that it doesn't like the extra mass out front, and there cranks are quite a bit stouter than a 6.5. So not al lengines like them.
 
sctrailrider said:
I have pics of a customer that had 40,000 miles on a set when he burnt a valve, the rod & mains & crank look new, no wear.... Tech Line has done lots of test that show it will make bearings last 3-4 times longer than uncoated. It will NOT peel off, it bonds with the metal when baked, BUT the base metal does need to be prepped right to get it right. I can only say that after doing the coating for years for other people and seeing some of the parts after they went in and checked things, I wouldn't be doing it to my motor if I wasn't SURE it worked..... when all is said & done I will have LOTS & LOTS in this motor and truck... I am sure of the coatings..
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Bi-metal or tri-metal bearings? Just curious as I have had problems with some bearings holding just the babit on, let alone a coating. Also I take it you run a super fine micro polish on the bearing sufaces of the crank?
 
THEFERMANATOR said:
Bi-metal or tri-metal bearings? Just curious as I have had problems with some bearings holding just the babit on, let alone a coating. Also I take it you run a super fine micro polish on the bearing sufaces of the crank?
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I have done all types of bearings, the coating provides a super slick surface that is bonded to the metal, I have coated the journals with a different type dry film also for even more protection. And nothing special about the crank polishing either, the bearing coating does it all. The coating isn't just a spray on & done thing, everything is etched first or the coating will not bond, more to it than it looks...
 
Yea I definitely wasn't talking about balancing the rotating assembly with a fluid damper. The guys I know all know that. I will go the ATI route and not ruin the money's I have put into my motor with the machine work and parts and you guys can do what you do like SC said earlier it's America :)
 
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