• Welcome to The Truck Stop! We see you haven't REGISTERED yet.

    Your truck knowledge is missing!
    • Registration is FREE , all we need is your birthday and email. (We don't share ANY data with ANYONE)
    • We have tons of knowledge here for your diesel truck!
    • Post your own topics and reply to existing threads to help others out!
    • NO ADS! The site is fully functional and ad free!
    CLICK HERE TO REGISTER!

    Problems registering? Click here to contact us!

    Already registered, but need a PASSWORD RESET? CLICK HERE TO RESET YOUR PASSWORD!

What did you do with your GMT400 today...or yesterday....

Oh my heck! Now please take those hose to a hydraulic hose shop and have REAL hose made. Thousands of 6.5s have died this way! Know how many in hmmwvs/ Hummers? ZERO. Why? Real hydraulic hoses with real steel plumbing fittings instead of the crappy click fittings GM penny pinchers chose.

There are other things that can cause oil loss. Rock to the oil cooler or bad solder joint in the cooler, blown oil filter seal, oil pump connector failure (I wish someone could make steel ones instead of plastic- I think I might for my current build).
Or the magical hole in the oil pan. OBVIOUSLY all those are crazy chances to happen, but they do. I haven’t figured out where in the oil pan it will have to go but many modern engines use a sensor in their oil pan that tells you if oil VOLUME is low when the engine is running. I am going to install one into my 6.5 oil pan (wish I could into the trans too but can’t). This way when oil level in the engine drops out like yours did- it sets off the worlds most annoying buzzer and flashing red light.
It could be wired in to cut power to the fuel solenoid but because of loss of power steering and power brakes I don’t think it wise.

I used to see this fairly often in the fleet. People think it is only from rubbing like this one obviously is. Others say too many years old for the hoses. I say BS!!! We had trucks we sold that broke 100,000 miles per year, some around 70,000 per year and sold them off once past 3 year mark. We had a few that were ran for high mileage as possible until a wreck caused by our driver and the other lawyer used high mileage as “evidence” we were being cheap at the public’s expense. We were doing long life real world testing for oil company and manufacturers but the legal risk made it not worth taking on new contracts so all that is gone now.
“SQUIRREL!” Sorry.
Anyways… we had factory hoses fail at around 125,000 miles up to 225,000 miles.
All they did before hiring me was inspect during oil changes and replace if they started seeping. Not a bad practice but some still got through and failed. After like the 4th one of me being there I drug one of the owners over to my puckup and showed him MY hydraulic hoses and my connectors.
We then started swapping the hoses out at the 100,000 mile mark when correcting other parts at that interval. When we later had one fail at 75,000 miles on a pickup that makes daily runs from Vegas to Bullhead City Az- they decided to take my original advice and just replace them on day one when we were already replacing the stupid heater connector that snaps in and rots away and relocating the pmd (we were going to in the cabin at the time).

The only engines we ever lost after that from oil loss was the two that took a rock into oil cooler and one that had the plastic connector fail. And honestly I think the second rock issue was sabotage by a mad worker because he had it happen the first time and the second one looked mighty suspicious, and happened to occur at a recreational area he happened to be taking a break at where his girlfriend worked. Yeah….
 
Will L. said:
Oh my heck! Now please take those hose to a hydraulic hose shop and have REAL hose made. Thousands of 6.5s have died this way! Know how many in hmmwvs/ Hummers? ZERO. Why? Real hydraulic hoses with real steel plumbing fittings instead of the crappy click fittings GM penny pinchers chose.

There are other things that can cause oil loss. Rock to the oil cooler or bad solder joint in the cooler, blown oil filter seal, oil pump connector failure (I wish someone could make steel ones instead of plastic- I think I might for my current build).
Or the magical hole in the oil pan. OBVIOUSLY all those are crazy chances to happen, but they do. I haven’t figured out where in the oil pan it will have to go but many modern engines use a sensor in their oil pan that tells you if oil VOLUME is low when the engine is running. I am going to install one into my 6.5 oil pan (wish I could into the trans too but can’t). This way when oil level in the engine drops out like yours did- it sets off the worlds most annoying buzzer and flashing red light.
It could be wired in to cut power to the fuel solenoid but because of loss of power steering and power brakes I don’t think it wise.

I used to see this fairly often in the fleet. People think it is only from rubbing like this one obviously is. Others say too many years old for the hoses. I say BS!!! We had trucks we sold that broke 100,000 miles per year, some around 70,000 per year and sold them off once past 3 year mark. We had a few that were ran for high mileage as possible until a wreck caused by our driver and the other lawyer used high mileage as “evidence” we were being cheap at the public’s expense. We were doing long life real world testing for oil company and manufacturers but the legal risk made it not worth taking on new contracts so all that is gone now.
“SQUIRREL!” Sorry.
Anyways… we had factory hoses fail at around 125,000 miles up to 225,000 miles.
All they did before hiring me was inspect during oil changes and replace if they started seeping. Not a bad practice but some still got through and failed. After like the 4th one of me being there I drug one of the owners over to my puckup and showed him MY hydraulic hoses and my connectors.
We then started swapping the hoses out at the 100,000 mile mark when correcting other parts at that interval. When we later had one fail at 75,000 miles on a pickup that makes daily runs from Vegas to Bullhead City Az- they decided to take my original advice and just replace them on day one when we were already replacing the stupid heater connector that snaps in and rots away and relocating the pmd (we were going to in the cabin at the time).

The only engines we ever lost after that from oil loss was the two that took a rock into oil cooler and one that had the plastic connector fail. And honestly I think the second rock issue was sabotage by a mad worker because he had it happen the first time and the second one looked mighty suspicious, and happened to occur at a recreational area he happened to be taking a break at where his girlfriend worked. Yeah….
Click to expand...
Will L., these were the the braided stainless hoses.
 
Ok, you don’t understand in the industrial hydraulic hose world there is completely different wear ratings of hoses that simply are not even close in automotive.

The heaviest automotive rating is level to out of literally a few hundred levels in industrial. My favorite is Parker brand. Comparing automotive wear rating of steel braided lines is 1/10 that of the standard hose parker makes. Not an exaggeration.

Then they make a liner that is called 450X because it actually wears at 450 times slower than their entry level one. So do the math. That 450X hose will literally outlast the rub issue 4,500 times more than the one you just lost an engine to.

I understand the impression you have of: would have done same- but thats like me telling you inflation and loans is exactly the same for all companies and countries in all situations because to the layman: everyone has inflation and uses loans.

There are other options besides just the outside layer.
Regular braided hose for automotive will have 1 braided section. Usually rated to a couple hundred psi.
hydraulic braided hose has 1 or 2 braided sections and if two they are layed on top of each other. Usually rated to 4,000 psi.
hydraulic spiralhose has 5 individual sections. Obviously wearing through one layer vs 5 does what to the failure time of the edge rubbing through?

It is not as flexible. But is the layers what give the internal hose pressure strength? No. the outside layers can be removed to where there is only one spiral wrap and it still withstands 5,000 psi. Remove the steel braiding off the automotive type and it will fail if you exceed 1/4 it’s original rating. It NEEDS the steel to withstand the pressure because it is designed that way at a lower cost.
So why all the layers? If it is just as strong? It withstands all the vibration, the shockwave of pressure created, and most importantly it eliminates the failure to wear.

Could it -over time wear through? Sure- just give it 100 years of working the construction site. Frequent use of 3,000 psi pressure washers. That kind of treatment. Maybe, just maybe it would wear through all those layers and much higher grade rubber hose- and fail.

Again- go search HummerNetworkForums.com and search the hmmwv sites and find a single post where anyone says they had an oil cooler hose failure.
People here and other 6.5 sites bring it up when it happens to them and semi frequently warn people. It is a heavier wear jacketing, it has more steel layers inside which accounts for the much larger outside diameter but same inside diameter.

My suggestion is same as always- get rid of the low quality cooler and the diy hot rod motivated patches and put industrial level parts on that have longer life span than since the 6.2 was invented let alone the 6.5. Use a better cooler which will- get this- cool better as well as less failure rates. Eliminate the fast assembline connectors. And the low cost hoses completely and invest in industrial level components that will never fail you.
 
Will L. said:
Ok, you don’t understand in the industrial hydraulic hose world there is completely different wear ratings of hoses that simply are not even close in automotive.

The heaviest automotive rating is level to out of literally a few hundred levels in industrial. My favorite is Parker brand. Comparing automotive wear rating of steel braided lines is 1/10 that of the standard hose parker makes. Not an exaggeration.

Then they make a liner that is called 450X because it actually wears at 450 times slower than their entry level one. So do the math. That 450X hose will literally outlast the rub issue 4,500 times more than the one you just lost an engine to.

I understand the impression you have of: would have done same- but thats like me telling you inflation and loans is exactly the same for all companies and countries in all situations because to the layman: everyone has inflation and uses loans.

There are other options besides just the outside layer.
Regular braided hose for automotive will have 1 braided section. Usually rated to a couple hundred psi.
hydraulic braided hose has 1 or 2 braided sections and if two they are layed on top of each other. Usually rated to 4,000 psi.
hydraulic spiralhose has 5 individual sections. Obviously wearing through one layer vs 5 does what to the failure time of the edge rubbing through?

It is not as flexible. But is the layers what give the internal hose pressure strength? No. the outside layers can be removed to where there is only one spiral wrap and it still withstands 5,000 psi. Remove the steel braiding off the automotive type and it will fail if you exceed 1/4 it’s original rating. It NEEDS the steel to withstand the pressure because it is designed that way at a lower cost.
So why all the layers? If it is just as strong? It withstands all the vibration, the shockwave of pressure created, and most importantly it eliminates the failure to wear.

Could it -over time wear through? Sure- just give it 100 years of working the construction site. Frequent use of 3,000 psi pressure washers. That kind of treatment. Maybe, just maybe it would wear through all those layers and much higher grade rubber hose- and fail.

Again- go search HummerNetworkForums.com and search the hmmwv sites and find a single post where anyone says they had an oil cooler hose failure.
People here and other 6.5 sites bring it up when it happens to them and semi frequently warn people. It is a heavier wear jacketing, it has more steel layers inside which accounts for the much larger outside diameter but same inside diameter.

My suggestion is same as always- get rid of the low quality cooler and the diy hot rod motivated patches and put industrial level parts on that have longer life span than since the 6.2 was invented let alone the 6.5. Use a better cooler which will- get this- cool better as well as less failure rates. Eliminate the fast assembline connectors. And the low cost hoses completely and invest in industrial level components that will never fail you.
Click to expand...
Still does not address the root cause, which will end with the same result.
 
Will L. said:
Ok, you don’t understand in the industrial hydraulic hose world there is completely different wear ratings of hoses that simply are not even close in automotive.

The heaviest automotive rating is level to out of literally a few hundred levels in industrial. My favorite is Parker brand. Comparing automotive wear rating of steel braided lines is 1/10 that of the standard hose parker makes. Not an exaggeration.

Then they make a liner that is called 450X because it actually wears at 450 times slower than their entry level one. So do the math. That 450X hose will literally outlast the rub issue 4,500 times more than the one you just lost an engine to.

I understand the impression you have of: would have done same- but thats like me telling you inflation and loans is exactly the same for all companies and countries in all situations because to the layman: everyone has inflation and uses loans.

There are other options besides just the outside layer.
Regular braided hose for automotive will have 1 braided section. Usually rated to a couple hundred psi.
hydraulic braided hose has 1 or 2 braided sections and if two they are layed on top of each other. Usually rated to 4,000 psi.
hydraulic spiralhose has 5 individual sections. Obviously wearing through one layer vs 5 does what to the failure time of the edge rubbing through?

It is not as flexible. But is the layers what give the internal hose pressure strength? No. the outside layers can be removed to where there is only one spiral wrap and it still withstands 5,000 psi. Remove the steel braiding off the automotive type and it will fail if you exceed 1/4 it’s original rating. It NEEDS the steel to withstand the pressure because it is designed that way at a lower cost.
So why all the layers? If it is just as strong? It withstands all the vibration, the shockwave of pressure created, and most importantly it eliminates the failure to wear.

Could it -over time wear through? Sure- just give it 100 years of working the construction site. Frequent use of 3,000 psi pressure washers. That kind of treatment. Maybe, just maybe it would wear through all those layers and much higher grade rubber hose- and fail.

Again- go search HummerNetworkForums.com and search the hmmwv sites and find a single post where anyone says they had an oil cooler hose failure.
People here and other 6.5 sites bring it up when it happens to them and semi frequently warn people. It is a heavier wear jacketing, it has more steel layers inside which accounts for the much larger outside diameter but same inside diameter.

My suggestion is same as always- get rid of the low quality cooler and the diy hot rod motivated patches and put industrial level parts on that have longer life span than since the 6.2 was invented let alone the 6.5. Use a better cooler which will- get this- cool better as well as less failure rates. Eliminate the fast assembline connectors. And the low cost hoses completely and invest in industrial level components that will never fail you.
Click to expand...
You need to put together a kit and sell it
 
I figured if we wrap the new oil cooler hoses in clear fuel line (only 3/4” in diameter) the new hoses will be fine. “I say, I say, that’s a joke son….”

Regardless, it was a short day given parts gathering. Took our time, had to go to several stores and then it was lunch time….
Stripped a few parts off the old motor, BigT cleaned them up as I pulled them then we went out to get more parts. Harmonic Balancer and the motor mounts are on. Tomorrow is a laundry list of swapping out parts but, prioritized by splitting the trans from the old motor and mating it back up with the new with all the sub steps. The devil is truly in the details and getting everything positioned.

I’m due at Heath’s Tuesday to help with a transmission swap. Thankfully his racing buddy has a shop with hoist so we can put the truck up in the air to do the exchange.

I’ll be back here Thursday night to continue helping to put Humpty-Dumpty back together again.
 
Monday, late afternoon, I left BigT’s and headed to Omak WA to help Bill Heath with his transmission swap. The 4L80 was giving up and he had a 4L85 to replace it with. Cris Mursick was the lead, has a lift to put the truck up where it was easier to work on it. Member 635 showed up and handed us tools and with Chris’ expertise and tutorage we had it all done and buttoned up 1:30. 4 hrs total. Fun job for me was when it was discovered the trans’ fill tube was still bolted to the motor and the tranny was ready to drop. I climbed up a ladder and scrambled onto the engine to free it up and again to put it back in.
image000000.jpeg
Left Omak Wednesday to get “back home” to BigT’s so we can wrap this project up.
Todays punch list:
HARMONIC BALANCER PULLEY (a three fold 4 hour adventure of screwing up and recovery),
Oil Cooler Lines installed & secured, I goofed a
(again), over torqued and stripped the threads on factory mount. Good thing BigT”s a good sport. He came up with a great idea on that rear mount and I’m thinking I ought to do the same on my rig. I’m not sure I have the front on either…
4 X 4 oil filter adapter
Water Pump and backing plate
Valve cover Mounting plates
Msc. Brackets and ground cables.
Injectors, IP lines and return lines
Glow plugs
T-Stat Cross over, Clean Mating surface
Flex plate off the old motor.

Tomorrow, main task is getting transmission mated up which requires the tractor to reposition both motors. Then we can stuff it in and start putting this puzzle back together. Now just where did that 10mm run off too?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top