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Replacement turbo

skypilotj said:
Slim,
Sorry to bring back a dead thread that is nearly a year old. I have read almost all of your posts on the ATT. I have been lurking on this site for far longer than I have been a member. This site was key in my decision to buy and resurrect a 6.5 that would have been bound for the scrap yard. It turned out well and has an unbranded title. As much as I wanted a DMax I didn't want to work on one. Besides everyone has a DMax and the payments to go with it. I own my truck free and clear. That doesn’t mean I haven't spent a ton of money and time rebuilding tho.It gets complements everywhere I go.
Around here (My home) people will dump more money than I originally paid for my truck on a BB turbo to bolt onto a ricer that will never do what a 6.5 can do or last as long. So in my market BBs are king. So it seems to me if you build it they will come.
It seems that many members here are overly protective of the ATT and defend it if the slightest innuendo is spoken against it. In reading all of the ATT posts the honest truth is there are things the ATT can do and things it can't.
So that leaves me the option of buying an ATT and dissecting it to find out what makes it different than a Mitsubishi p/n ME 032938 or 6D15T. Or politely asking what a good BB equivalent would be.
I will now put on my fire resistant suit and you all may flame on.
Click to expand...

Real simple and polite I can not recommend a BB turbo for you. Dissecting the A-Team will get you numbers but will it be enough? The total package is what works and that includes the truck it is mounted on.

I will tell you that the A-Team Turbo is the only bolt on replacement turbo kit out there for the 6.5 diesel, that has production quality repeatable interchangeable parts. There is nothing else like it. I also service my turbo not just sell you one part of a collection of parts.

We recently had a dyno run with 260 rwhp and 400 foot pounds of torque. If you have as you say been lurking here for a long time then you know what has been going on.

As far as being defensive, well if I tell you that my turbo on my truck does not lag and when someone tells me that that is not true because theirs does and the majority 99 percent don't : would you be a little peeved? Now Buddy says his turbo lags on his truck with 3.42 gears,I have no reason to doubt him, BUT I have at least four other trucks that are heavier along with a suburban that have 3.42 gears and they don't report lag are they incorrect?

Most people that have made the "LAG" statements don't own an A-team turbo, and make statements based on what they think they know or based on what ever knowledge they claim to know of how things should work. Some people are more adamant that what they hear see or experience is the only truth. Other people that are less informed then take the (statement ) made by people that make these statements, believing these people or individual is knowledgeable, take this and run with it based on the information reported to them.

When in reality the statement although true, may not include the whole picture, possibly the truck of the person that has lag may have a motor that is tired has bad rings, (excessive blow by) bad cam, worn valves, IP that is worn, you hopefully see my point.

Yet all we hear is the A-Team Lags and the perception is that the truck is pristine new condition when in fact there may or may not be underlying issues. So now the A-team lags because someone tells someone they know and they pass on one persons experience as truth without the whole picture. The A-Team will not fix problems with a truck or make it new.

The A-TEAM TURBO WAS DESIGNED FOR PEOPLE THAT USE THEIR TRUCK FOR TOWING AND EVERYDAY DRIVING, NOT STOP LIGHT TO STOP LIGHT RACING OR RACING PERIOD. People that own an A-Team also report a 1 to 3 MPG increase in fuel economy which is huge.

So what else can I say, the people that wanted dyno numbers got them, now there is nothing left to say other than the A-team does this or that and lags. They are similar to bad girl friend no mater what you do for her or give her, she is never happy unless she is unhappy. That type of individual is typically the most boisterous and wants everyone to here what they have to say right or wrong. They live to be the center of attention.

Nothing will change their opinion. Yet we have one problem in one instance that now becomes an attribute because enough people say it is so based on a statement that was not represented with all of the possible facts or truths.
 
I feel there is a miscommunication here on what terms mean what. Lag is the time it takes from when you romp on it until the boost comes up. It seems to me some are confusing "lag", with a raised power band. GM chose there turbo to basically optimise power in the cruise area as the 6.5 was never meant to be a powerhouse. It seems from what I have read that the ATT is not very laggy, but it DOES raise up the powerband a few hundred RPM's. I know my LB7 doesn't have much boost below about 2K RPM's, yet I don't feel it is laggy in the slightest. The ATT powered truck I rode in was anything but laggy I thought, but it did have a higher powerband than a stock GM-8 turbo'd truck had. There is NO perfect turbo. They will all have tradeoffs in them. Even VVT's have there weakness's to them. For the cost, and what it does, the ATT is an excellent replacement though I feel, and if I had a 6.5 powered vehicle it would be sporting one.
 
I am not the only owner to have stated the lag exists. Its not bad lag, but it does spool slower and thats my definition of turbo lag. Comparing Turbo A to Tubro B. Same truck, one spools at 1200rpm, one spools at 1800rpm. Never said it doesnt work great for towing or cruising, but be honest about the numbers down low too. Honest data. Honest data from the dyno run referenced clearly shows a significant loss of low end torque thus far, therefore it supports my experiences. Part of the issue is your interpretation of what lag is.

TheFerm you kind of contradicted yourself, stating lag is the time between pedal and boost. But then said you dont get much boost until 2000rpm but thats not lag. Turbo lag is a fact of turbos, it just depends on how much is there. GM sized one that can boost right off idle, so its nearly the lagless option, but terrible for power and reliability.
 
Once again I hope this stays civil.

Now that you (Buddy) mention the spec you referenced.The 6.5diesel at 438 foot pounds at 1800 rpm as the basis for the reduced torque of the ATT and the fact the ATT had reduced torque down low compared to the GM turbo ? was it the specs you referenced or the dyno run done by 6.5L? The run 6.5L did using the original gm 4 was no where near that as well, Was it the truck, don't ever remember the 6.5 being a 438 foot pound beast at 1800 rpm.



Maybe that is the point where I have doubts. I believe you when you say that you have what you call lag. I think that it is a definition discrepancy possibly, But once again it is based on a certain configuration and the others? Well I have others that say they don't have any lag with 3.42 gears and their set up.

I think that my point on people running with what they heard is case in point. I had one guy do a test with the gm 4 and att and their was no measured difference in acceleration rates based on a accelerometer (trade name unknown). So how does that figure into lag? Is the lag perceived lag in the accelerator pedal or actual mass of the truck moves slower?
 
Does anyone know where 6.5L's original dyno sheet with the gm 3 is so that we can compare the two torque curves and numbers? I don't remember the gm being up at 438 foot pounds and dropping off to 327 possible I am wrong (dare say). And the ATT dyno sheet is there to see. we need to compare them side by side to see the differences, And that housing was the larger housing not the normal ATT housing, so that is also a definitive difference. Hence my take it an run statement.
 
Hey Buddy, where in central CA are you? Stockton, Fresno, or further south? I am curious, you can drive mine and I'll drive yours. I'm fully insured, no accidents, and get down to the Manteca, Tracy area quite a bit.
 
I want to hire....THE A TEAM!

I'm very excited about this thread! I've read and read and read, I now have a headache (but a good one!) How will this turbo work on my 1994 OBD1 K2500 with 5 speed, I now have a 4" exhaust. Will I or can I rechip or is it necessary? Now that it is 2012 and this thread is 4 years old there must be members that have my vintage and model of truck with that turbo. I figure the bugs of this great turbo are worked out and I want one!
 
94turbo- said:
I'm very excited about this thread! I've read and read and read, I now have a headache (but a good one!) How will this turbo work on my 1994 OBD1 K2500 with 5 speed, I now have a 4" exhaust. Will I or can I rechip or is it necessary? Now that it is 2012 and this thread is 4 years old there must be members that have my vintage and model of truck with that turbo. I figure the bugs of this great turbo are worked out and I want one!
Click to expand...
Slim will probably remember who ran an ATT without a tune (Oregonhorsetug)? A tune will make it run even better/
 
I just looked at their site, and a chip for my truck is listed! (And I thought the OBD1 was like a commadore 64 in today's world), the turbo is a great price too! Bolt on kit is just what I'm after, why re-invent the wheel?.....
 
Actually Slim Shady who brought this turbo to market has a truck quite similar to yours.
 
1999gmc said:
Hey Buddy, where in central CA are you? Stockton, Fresno, or further south? I am curious, you can drive mine and I'll drive yours. I'm fully insured, no accidents, and get down to the Manteca, Tracy area quite a bit.
Click to expand...

I'm close to Santa Barbara, a lot further South. I have been in two other trucks with ATTs, and the one with 4.10s was a noticeable difference. My truck runs fine, its plenty fast from high fueling and tuning. I am only commenting on comparisons of one turbo to another. The lag is not bad, but its there, its a characteristic to define as it may be important to potential users. Rather than saying it does not exist.

If someone feels the definition of lag is not as TheFerm stated "Lag is the time it takes from when you romp on it until the boost comes up" then there is no reason to debate as this is what I am talking about.
 
94turbo- said:
I'm very excited about this thread! I've read and read and read, I now have a headache (but a good one!) How will this turbo work on my 1994 OBD1 K2500 with 5 speed, I now have a 4" exhaust. Will I or can I rechip or is it necessary? Now that it is 2012 and this thread is 4 years old there must be members that have my vintage and model of truck with that turbo. I figure the bugs of this great turbo are worked out and I want one!
Click to expand...

It will likely work very well in your truck. The manual trucks were given higher idle rpms, and you bump it off idle to put it in gear. 4.10s give you good off the line power already, RPMs climb faster, and you control the RPMs much more than an automatic. That all works much in your favor when upgrading to a larger turbo. You would be very pleased, especially if upgrading the PCM to get more top end fueling and mid range timing advance.
 
94 Turbo

I have a 95 obd 1 truck with a five speed, send me a Pm and I will discuss the turbo and your truck or just your truck. The dyno numbers with the A-Team Turbo on a mechanical IP (injection pump) five speed truck were 260.5 RWHP (rear wheel horse power) and 397.5 Foot pounds of torque at the rear wheels. pretty respectable for an old school truck.
 
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