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Replacement turbo

A-Team Turbo and Kennedy Chip Fuel Economy Test

Here are my results. I believe this to be statistically significant. But, perhaps very conservative of actual improvement because...

1. I've been driving it like a stolen rental since the exhaust went in (gm turbo is way louder than A-Team with KD exhaust, I very much like the ATT). I like the quieter attenuator trap. Now it kind of sounds like a 454 with glass packs, but a little quieter under hard acceleration, maybe.

2. I now tow at faster speeds, so one should be burning at a higher rate now vs. baseline. I got just a slight fueling bump with the fuel mileage chip. The egt's are easily managed and the coolant temp is noticably lower and not a problem except with a 45 mph 90 degree crosswind. I have not cleaned the cooling package in quite a while either.

3. The towing has been typical but I believe the side and cross winds have been horrible this spring and summer here on the planes (or is it plains, lol, too funny).

4. Injectors (technically a nozzle?) and Injection pump may reflect additional improvment for mods, since the baseline started with new injectors. Not sure if or how much the injection pump would affect it. I know one thing, I might buy a set of injectors for the sake of this test, but the injection pump is gonna just ride it out.

Here you go...


Overall Improvements (per signature)
13.88% Reduced Cost per Mile
16.13% Improved MPG


Data Set #3: Added; Kennedy Fuel Economy Chip, A-Team Turbo, DEI Turbo Blanket
8.72% Reduced Cost per Mile (additional improvement over baseline)
17.07 MPG
10.69% MPG Improvement over Baseline (additional)
5 Months
10,646 Miles
$0.178 Cost per Mile at $3.03/gallon

Start End
Truck 316,500 327,146
Engine 83,267 93,913
Inj. Pump 179,882 190,528
Injectors 83,267 93,913


Data Set #2: Added; Kennedy Exhaust, Kennedy Fan Clutch, DSG Cam Phaser Kit

5.16% Reduced Cost per Mile Improvement over Baseline
15.50 MPG
5.44% MPG Improvement over Baseline
13 Months
25,367 Miles
$0.195 Cost per Mile at $3.03/gallon

Start End
Truck 291,133 316,500
Engine 57,900 83,267
Inj. Pump 154,515 179,882
Injectors 57,900 83,267


Data Set #1: Baseline Stock GM

14.70 MPG
29 Months
57,605 Miles
$0.206 Cost per Mile at $3.03/gallon

Start End
Truck 233,528 291,133
Engine 295 57,900
Inj. Pump 96,910 154,515
Injectors 295 57,900
 
Last edited:
NoDak said:
Here are my results. I believe this to be statistically significant. But, perhaps very conservative of actual improvement because...

1. I've been driving it like a stolen rental since the exhaust went in (gm turbo way louder than A-Team, much like the ATT). I like the quieter attenuator trap. It kind of sounds like a 454 with glass packs, but a little quieter under hard acceleration, maybe.

2. I now tow at faster speeds, so one should be burning at a higher rate now vs. baseline. I got just a slight fueling bump with the fuel mileage chip. The egt's are easily managed and the coolant temp is noticably lower and not a problem. I have not cleaned the cooling package a quite a while either.

3. The towing has been typical but I believe the side and cross winds have been horrible this spring and summer here on the planes (or is it plains, lol, too funny).

4. Injectors (technically a nozzle?) and Injection pump may reflect additional improvment for mods, since the baseline started with new injectors. Not sure if or how much the injection pump would affect it. I know one thing, I might buy a set of injectors for the sake of this test, but the injection pump is gonna just ride it out.

Here you go...

Overall Improvements (per signature)
13.88% Reduced Cost per Mile
16.13% Improved MPG


Data Set #3: Kennedy Fuel Economy Chip, A-Team Turbo, DEI Turbo Blanket

8.72% Reduced Cost per Mile (additional improvement over baseline)
17.07 MPG
10.69% MPG Improvement over Baseline (additional)
5 Months
10,646 Miles
$0.178 Cost per Mile at $3.03/gallon

Start End
Truck 316,500 327,146
Engine 83,267 93,913
Inj. Pump 179,882 190,528
Injectors 83,267 93,913


Data Set #2: Added; Kennedy Exhaust, Kennedy Fan Clutch, DSG Cam Phaser Kit

5.16% Reduced Cost per Mile Improvement over Baseline
15.50 MPG
5.44% MPG Improvement over Baseline
13 Months
25,367 Miles
$0.195 Cost per Mile at $3.03/gallon

Start End
Truck 291,133 316,500
Engine 57,900 83,267
Inj. Pump 154,515 179,882
Injectors 57,900 83,267


Data Set #1: Baseline Stock GM

14.70 MPG
29 Months
57,605 Miles
$0.206 Cost per Mile at $3.03/gallon

Start End
Truck 233,528 291,133
Engine 295 57,900
Inj. Pump 96,910 154,515
Injectors 295 57,900
Click to expand...


Fabulous data!
 
Nice stuff Nodak. Do you have GMTDScan and set your TDCO as well?

So you have almost 100k miles on these injectors?

I wonder how much the efficieny gain was from the PCM tuning vs the ATT. A lot of the stock tuning does not lend itself to efficiency, even though it starves itself for power. You could try to test it with the GM turbo to see how it does that way.
 
NoDak said:
Here are my results. I believe this to be statistically significant. But, perhaps very conservative of actual improvement because...

1. I've been driving it like a stolen rental since the exhaust went in (gm turbo is way louder than A-Team with KD exhaust, I very much like the ATT). I like the quieter attenuator trap. Now it kind of sounds like a 454 with glass packs, but a little quieter under hard acceleration, maybe.

2. I now tow at faster speeds, so one should be burning at a higher rate now vs. baseline. I got just a slight fueling bump with the fuel mileage chip. The egt's are easily managed and the coolant temp is noticably lower and not a problem except with a 45 mph 90 degree crosswind. I have not cleaned the cooling package in quite a while either.

3. The towing has been typical but I believe the side and cross winds have been horrible this spring and summer here on the planes (or is it plains, lol, too funny).

4. Injectors (technically a nozzle?) and Injection pump may reflect additional improvment for mods, since the baseline started with new injectors. Not sure if or how much the injection pump would affect it. I know one thing, I might buy a set of injectors for the sake of this test, but the injection pump is gonna just ride it out.

Here you go...


Overall Improvements (per signature)
13.88% Reduced Cost per Mile
16.13% Improved MPG


Data Set #3: Added; Kennedy Fuel Economy Chip, A-Team Turbo, DEI Turbo Blanket
8.72% Reduced Cost per Mile (additional improvement over baseline)
17.07 MPG
10.69% MPG Improvement over Baseline (additional)
5 Months
10,646 Miles
$0.178 Cost per Mile at $3.03/gallon

Start End
Truck 316,500 327,146
Engine 83,267 93,913
Inj. Pump 179,882 190,528
Injectors 83,267 93,913


Data Set #2: Added; Kennedy Exhaust, Kennedy Fan Clutch, DSG Cam Phaser Kit

5.16% Reduced Cost per Mile Improvement over Baseline
15.50 MPG
5.44% MPG Improvement over Baseline
13 Months
25,367 Miles
$0.195 Cost per Mile at $3.03/gallon

Start End
Truck 291,133 316,500
Engine 57,900 83,267
Inj. Pump 154,515 179,882
Injectors 57,900 83,267


Data Set #1: Baseline Stock GM

14.70 MPG
29 Months
57,605 Miles
$0.206 Cost per Mile at $3.03/gallon

Start End
Truck 233,528 291,133
Engine 295 57,900
Inj. Pump 96,910 154,515
Injectors 295 57,900
Click to expand...


Now that is a data set, nice job, :thumbsup:):h
 
buddy said:
Nice stuff Nodak. Do you have GMTDScan and set your TDCO as well?

So you have almost 100k miles on these injectors?

I wonder how much the efficieny gain was from the PCM tuning vs the ATT. A lot of the stock tuning does not lend itself to efficiency, even though it starves itself for power. You could try to test it with the GM turbo to see how it does that way.
Click to expand...

No scan tool, but I had it timed at gm store to the DSG specs with the cam phaser kit.

Injectors most likely next thing to replace for testing purposes. You seem suprised they live this long, or is it you think one is crazy to attempt that many miles, lol?

As for the air filter, I've got alot of miles on a filter now and I am planning to take intake restriction numbers again. In stock trim with a new filter you don't get much. So, I'm curious now to humor you and put some data to it.

If you think you are curious about how much gain is Kennedy programming vs. A-Team Turbo, I'm pretty sure John would have loved to know too!!

By intalling the exhaust and cam phaser to run 18 months of data while the ATT and KD Program sat on the shelf... it cost me the savings opportunity of ($0.195 - $0.178)*25,367 miles = $431.24. That would have paid for 1/2 of my ATT!! Testing is expensive, eh? But, I got that many more miles out of my gm-x pos, just barely. I got a bit impatient and I had a buyer for all my takeoff cores & stuff, so I jumped in with both feet. Sorry guys, science suffered. And I don't have a gm-x to even try if I had any interest now.

Economics....

I have saved ($0.206 - $0.195)*25,367 miles = $279.04

plus saved ($0.206-$0.178)*10,646 miles = $298.09 (and counting)

Which is a total of $577.13 (and counting).

It will be little while before I pay of all the parts, but the gm-x was due anyway. With that assumption, I'm close to break even with all the other stuff.
 
Friends,

Here is a brief overview of the fit, finish, sound and driving impressions of the A Team Turbo with KOJO Tune. Thank you to Slim Shady for helping me get this whole motor together, thank you for pushing the development of the 6.5 diesel so much farther along. Thanks to Turbine Doc for positive vibes throughout the build. Thanks to Bill Heath for his advice too.


[video=youtube;K343JtELjbQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K343JtELjbQ[/video]
 
Here is my next A Team Turbo video. This time, whistling, roaring, blowing coal and eating F150's.

Thanks to all!

[video=youtube;EWIPhCKjXz8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWIPhCKjXz8[/video]
 
Great Videos VegOut! Your assistant has a bit of a shakey hand at speed though, lol!!!

Regarding the '95 GMC in my signature... I'm about another 4k miles since post #702, which is about 15k miles on ATT, 331k miles on truck odometer. I'm still at 17.1 mpg since ATT and Kennedy Fuel Economy Chip was installed (15k miles of everything driving, towing, idling, etc). My last 10 tanks average 17.3 mpg. The last two tank fills average 19.6 mpg and 20.0 mpg. I love this truck. I believe mine is a bit quieter than VegOut's hot rod white Suburban, perhaps my Kennedy trap/noise attenuator has something to do with that. I know I don't smoke like that either, wow!!

My second ATT is in the '99 Suburban project (see signature) and is getting closer to launch. Got to get the dash put back in and sort out a little issue connecting the transfer case harness to the dash harness, yikes. Also have to wire up the Gear Vendors and A-Pillar gauges. Can't wait!!
 
I would like to see that same 1/4 throttle 70mph 4% grade climb, then see the speedo when you WOT at that point for a few seconds.
 
NoDak said:
No scan tool, but I had it timed at gm store to the DSG specs with the cam phaser kit.

Injectors most likely next thing to replace for testing purposes. You seem suprised they live this long, or is it you think one is crazy to attempt that many miles, lol?

As for the air filter, I've got alot of miles on a filter now and I am planning to take intake restriction numbers again. In stock trim with a new filter you don't get much. So, I'm curious now to humor you and put some data to it.

If you think you are curious about how much gain is Kennedy programming vs. A-Team Turbo, I'm pretty sure John would have loved to know too!!

By intalling the exhaust and cam phaser to run 18 months of data while the ATT and KD Program sat on the shelf... it cost me the savings opportunity of ($0.195 - $0.178)*25,367 miles = $431.24. That would have paid for 1/2 of my ATT!! Testing is expensive, eh? But, I got that many more miles out of my gm-x pos, just barely. I got a bit impatient and I had a buyer for all my takeoff cores & stuff, so I jumped in with both feet. Sorry guys, science suffered. And I don't have a gm-x to even try if I had any interest now.

Economics....

I have saved ($0.206 - $0.195)*25,367 miles = $279.04

plus saved ($0.206-$0.178)*10,646 miles = $298.09 (and counting)

Which is a total of $577.13 (and counting).

It will be little while before I pay of all the parts, but the gm-x was due anyway. With that assumption, I'm close to break even with all the other stuff.
Click to expand...

i like your tact when respondind to annoying bugs, good work!
i am looking forward to putting an ATT into my 93. my dp is stock so hope that won't too much of a restriction. straight pipe.
installed a gear vendors unit. have ran a week on it so far and love it. figured i am getting between 19-20 but not an accurate reading. glad all my ducks lined up right for the purchase. now waiting for the other ones to line up.
during this long read, start to finish, i picked up on a lot of good info and who's post to read and who's to ignore. good work A Team!
 
Patrick, nice vids (BTW)......Just one question, I did not see any gauges (Boost, EGT, etc.), are you running "gauge free" or are they tucked away somewhere?

Also, nice oil pressure on your fresh rebuild......Truck looked and sounded great.
 
Hi All,

Is the ATT ball bearing? If not is there a ball bearing equivlant? Would a ball bearing turbo increase effieciency and reduce lag? Sorry to rivive an old thread.
 
Welcome to TTS

I don't know if the ATT is ball bearing or bushings, if some think it's laggy, they have A.D.D.
 
Att is not ball bearing. Wat you may think is acceptable lag the next guy may not like it at all. And yes a ball bearing turbo will definately reduce lag but whether it's worth the extra cost is debatable .
 
I need to fill out my sig so you all know what I am working with. its a 98 K3500 CC DRW with lift,tires and bumpers. It represents my off road fabrication business. I got it with 96k on the odo last June and have done a complete resto. Its maiden voyage was round trip to Texas from Oregon with horse and trailer. Stock performance and fuel consumption was a dissappointment. I have planned all of the normal bolt on upgrades. But before I do the exhaust I want to do a better turbo in case I have to fabricate a custom down pipe. The ATT has good reviews and more. I like my waste gate. Its just a personal preference. If I could get the ATT trim with ball bearings it would increase the coolness factor. Coolness and performance is more of a priority than cost.
 
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