P400 in the Burb install

[Rockabillyrat]

Of course is will start and run well. Plenty of people run marine nozzles with n/a cups. What I'm talking about is the fine adjustments made to optimize your set up for what you want it to do. In my case more power. If you wanted fuel mileage you would go about it differently.

 

[Will L.]

I wouldn't say raising or lowering pop pressure has a specific affect of more or less power/ mpg. We found getting everything tuned in together made biggest impact on both. It really depends on your setup and use. for people never going above 2500 rpm, compared to those in the 4000 range frequently, they will see different results.

We found back in the 90's that bringing stock injectors up to 2350, using REAL diesel fuel, and a slight advancement in timing improved both power and mpg- so a more efficient burn all around.

going from 303 to 311 nozzles you can atomize much better at the same volume of fuel with higher pressures because the higher pressure means less time of the injector open- so less fuel per event.

Yes what precups are in there or if you flowed the heads makes a big difference too. And absolutely right, getting too much misting into the precup can have horrible results. That's why I like the idea of 2 full sets for test and comparisons.

 

[6.2 turbo]

Well,I have experimeted,from 1600-5000. Never noticed less power at higher pressures. Plus, the engine sounds better.

 

[spdgofast]

Ok guys, so I sent my just built, siezed, broken shaft .350 plunger pump back to Conestoga and told him to build it with a new .330 head and rotor pump, I recieved it back in May and I just got around to installing it. I've been busy working on my new to me 09 Ram 3500 4x4 Laramie with the 6.7 Cummins ( I really hate working on the 6.5 anymore). Anyhow so I installed the IP and the rebuilt, repoped to 2250 psi injectors (again) friday and wouldn't you guess no fuel output from the IP. So upon further investigation when the head & rotor siezed @ idle on my 20 minute runtime rebuilt pump it sheared the keyway on the IP drive gear on the cam. So I pulled the front of the motor apart and was going to install my Phaser Gear drive that had about 800 miles on it from my old motor but I noticed the brass thrust washer that goes behind the gear on the cam is boogered up. I've called around and I cannot find one and I already have the original P400 gears and chain removed, so unless anyone knows where to source one of these I guess I'll have to just reinstall the OEM chain setup cause I'm not springing for an entire gear drive kit just for a thrust washer. Especially when there is talk about how the harmonics produced by the gear drive are not good for crankshafts on these engines. So the eternal uphill battle continues.

 

[Will L.]

If Leroy can’t get it, you should be able to
Take the old one to a metal works machine shop and have one made pretty cheap.

I researched the heck out of the harmonics claims and it always seemed to dead end at suppliers that didn't sell
The gear drive but only sold chain sets.

On the contrary the chain slap that happens every time you accelerate or decelerate the engine was a big concern Stanandyne had from gm for the ip life, and the only differences on db2 ford to gm was chain vs gear drive and 3/8 vs 5/16 fuel inlet. Yet Ford had a longer life span from their pumps. The first redesign of the timing chain in the 6.2 showed replacing ip under warranty too if any symptoms were present -reinforcement of that issue.

I bookmarked the things I found, but that laptop went smokey smokey, so no links for me to provide- sorry. When that happened I basically just found stuff in favor of gears over chain so I quit looking at that point.

Something to consider though is if the small chatter was f resistance of the injectors and pump loading and firing once per cylinder fire, how much less is that compared to the piston fire. And since it is obviously happening just a couple degrees before the explosion, in the time it takes is that little resistance chatter to move the crankshaft the time to transfer the energy part to part- he explosion will have hit. That was actually the part I was trying to diagram before doing the write up I planned. Those guys that do the pro level write ups have my respect- that was too much a pain in the

 

[JayTheCPA]

. . . there is talk about how the harmonics produced by the gear drive are not good for crankshafts on these engines.

Agree with Will that this is just talk.

I have also seen comments about harmonics, but those were from people whom raced gasser v8's. When those individuals were pressed to provide information / data as it related to a lower revving diesel, they went quiet.

 

[FellowTraveler]

I can say this without any reservations; the "Phaser gearset" in my 6.5td did not far well in the end it was pitted like hell why is anyones guess..........
I already had my Ram Cummins 3500 like forever rusting away and it had a low mileage rebuild from Cummins in it so I jumped when I lost my 6.5td to a storm....I was going to make the jump into a DB fueling before I lost the 6.5td.
I can say owning 6.2 & 6.5 GM diesels was an adventure with the 6.2 being more efficient and reliable too.

 

[FellowTraveler]

Ok guys, so I sent my just built, siezed, broken shaft .350 plunger pump back to Conestoga and told him to build it with a new .330 head and rotor pump, I recieved it back in May and I just got around to installing it. I've been busy working on my new to me 09 Ram 3500 4x4 Laramie with the 6.7 Cummins ( I really hate working on the 6.5 anymore). Anyhow so I installed the IP and the rebuilt, repoped to 2250 psi injectors (again) friday and wouldn't you guess no fuel output from the IP. So upon further investigation when the head & rotor siezed @ idle on my 20 minute runtime rebuilt pump it sheared the keyway on the IP drive gear on the cam. So I pulled the front of the motor apart and was going to install my Phaser Gear drive that had about 800 miles on it from my old motor but I noticed the brass thrust washer that goes behind the gear on the cam is boogered up. I've called around and I cannot find one and I already have the original P400 gears and chain removed, so unless anyone knows where to source one of these I guess I'll have to just reinstall the OEM chain setup cause I'm not springing for an entire gear drive kit just for a thrust washer. Especially when there is talk about how the harmonics produced by the gear drive are not good for crankshafts on these engines. So the eternal uphill battle continues.

I suspect that thrust washer maybe bronze perhaps measuring it you can find one on the bay.....just a thought.

Your 6.7 Cummins will make you happier for sure...........

 

[FellowTraveler]

Agree with Will that this is just talk.

I have also seen comments about harmonics, but those were from people whom raced gasser v8's. When those individuals were pressed to provide information / data as it related to a lower revving diesel, they went quiet.

I have not seen GM publish harmonics data like Cummins does for their engine product lines however; I would not quickly dispel any concerns about harmonics issues on that series right up to the P400.........truth be told GM screwed every purchaser of the 6.5td with their inferior fuel drive & cooling systems designs.

 

[MrMarty51]

I have always thought there would be about equal harmonics between the chain and the gear setups.
The chain creates its own set of harmonics everytime a tooth passes over a link, but that's just my theory and I have no scientific or mechanical data to prove that fact.

 

[JayTheCPA]

The comment was not about quickly dismissing a claim, but rather I could not find anybody to substantiate it. I could find people whom stated it existed in a dissimilar platform. To me, that is too far of a leap which in turn invalidates the application -by-extension claim

 

[spdgofast]

Well guys, I'm striking out on a thrust washer, Mc Master Carr returned my email this morning and said they had nothing. Here are the dimentions if anyone has any ideas. Does anyone know who makes them now or are they not being made by anyone anymore? I called DSG, no go.

ID-1.75 inch

OD- 2.40 inch

THICKNESS- .009 inch

 

[FellowTraveler]

The comment was not about quickly dismissing a claim, but rather I could not find anybody to substantiate it. I could find people whom stated it existed in a dissimilar platform. To me, that is too far of a leap which in turn invalidates the application -by-extension claim

Jay "I stand corrected."

 

[FellowTraveler]

I have always thought there would be about equal harmonics between the chain and the gear setups.
The chain creates its own set of harmonics everytime a tooth passes over a link, but that's just my theory and I have no scientific or mechanical data to prove that fact.

Harmonics are also prone to disruptions by accessories attached to the engine.

 

[n8in8or]

Well guys, I'm striking out on a thrust washer, Mc Master Carr returned my email this morning and said they had nothing. Here are the dimentions if anyone has any ideas. Does anyone know who makes them now or are they not being made by anyone anymore? I called DSG, no go.

ID-1.75 inch

OD- 2.40 inch

THICKNESS- .009 inch

Is that only .009 thick or is it supposed to be .090?

 

[spdgofast]

I'm glad you caught that Nate

ID-1.75 inch

OD- 2.40 inch

THICKNESS- .090 inch

 

[n8in8or]

Yeah, that's an oddball size. You can get the ID and OD in 1/8" thick a lot of places. I wonder if that could be ground down to the .090" thickness by a machine shop? I'll see what resources our tool room has for bushings.

 

[n8in8or]

I also like the idea of contacting Leroy and seeing if he can just send a new bushing.

 

[spdgofast]

I tried Leroy, I also called a local Miller Bearing and they did have one that was .125" thick but that's a good bit thicker.

 

[MrMarty51]

I tried Leroy, I also called a local Miller Bearing and they did have one that was .125" thick but that's a good bit thicker.

A piece of 80 grit glued to a hard flat surface would make quick work of that, finish with a 400 grit and keep rotating while scrubbing it on the sanding paper to keep it nice and flat.