jrsavoie
Recruit
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one lifter making noise
- Thread starter Steak&Eggs
- Start date
Not all authorized techs have the same skill set.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
With injectors coming from dealership- good to go.
@MrMarty51 problem with shipping them off is you can’t see they really all are at that amount. Kinda like- spec of something is between 10 and 20 units. You ask and 90% of guys will say “they are all at 15” because that’s what he targeted.
For him to actually get 8 out of 8 EXACTLY to 1950- that is a lot of time spent. I used to do to s of them- and getting 8 to exactly match out of 80 of them was ok- but 8 out of 40 took quite some time. A person can spend an hour or more just fine tuning one to be exact. I’m never gonna say a guy didn’t get all 8 exactly to the same pressure- I have done it- I’m just saying unless you paid four extra labor hours, statistically he pencil whipped it. Imo- ask to pay $25 for a guy to set up a phone and record the thing.
I have paid $40 to be allowed to stand and see it being spec’d out, and paid several hours labor to get them with 25 psi of each other- to get all 8 from that guy probably would have been 20 hours extra.
@MrMarty51 problem with shipping them off is you can’t see they really all are at that amount. Kinda like- spec of something is between 10 and 20 units. You ask and 90% of guys will say “they are all at 15” because that’s what he targeted.
For him to actually get 8 out of 8 EXACTLY to 1950- that is a lot of time spent. I used to do to s of them- and getting 8 to exactly match out of 80 of them was ok- but 8 out of 40 took quite some time. A person can spend an hour or more just fine tuning one to be exact. I’m never gonna say a guy didn’t get all 8 exactly to the same pressure- I have done it- I’m just saying unless you paid four extra labor hours, statistically he pencil whipped it. Imo- ask to pay $25 for a guy to set up a phone and record the thing.
I have paid $40 to be allowed to stand and see it being spec’d out, and paid several hours labor to get them with 25 psi of each other- to get all 8 from that guy probably would have been 20 hours extra.
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jrsavoie
Recruit
I thought Marty confirmed this info by testing them, after he got them back.
I never had mine tested again after I got them back from the place in Michigan, but they said they were all set to 2300 psi
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Steak&Eggs
Active Member
Well, I crimped an old injector line and the pump leaks off just like it did when testing injectors... not a drop of fuel out the open end of the line....
They did send some spare parts with the tester. I will contact them and see what they have to say.
Am I doing Great or What??
They did send some spare parts with the tester. I will contact them and see what they have to say.
Am I doing Great or What??
MrMarty51
Well-Known Member
That is exactly how the new made in India Bosch injectors that I got were functioning.
Six out of eight would not hold pressure at all. They would not chatter and leak down as fast as the handle was pumped.
I did get shims and attempted to straighten out them injectors but then the pressures went up without a chatter. Just a solid stream of fuel.
MrMarty51
Well-Known Member
Yes. After I got the injectors back I checked them with the handy dandy made in India injector tester.
I also checked an old injector to make sure that the tester was properly functioning and it seemd to be doing its job.
The old injector is a good one but it popped at 1750 PSI.
MrMarty51
Well-Known Member
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MrMarty51
Well-Known Member
Pro Tech was rebuilding pumps and injectors for the DOT over here in eastern Montana when the only diesel pickups they had was the 6.5s. There was a couple tricks he would throw at the mechanical IPs and those engines run extremely well when the rebuilt pump was installed.
Then the electronical pumps come along and He geared up for those too.
I asked him about rebuilding and testing my pumps and he said he was not willing to pull out all that gear from storage.
Guess after i eventually get the engine dislodged from my truck I’ll load up the pumps and make that 80 mile drive over to his shop and tell him, here I am, where is that DS4 equipment. I will dig it all out, You carry on.
Then the electronical pumps come along and He geared up for those too.
I asked him about rebuilding and testing my pumps and he said he was not willing to pull out all that gear from storage.
Guess after i eventually get the engine dislodged from my truck I’ll load up the pumps and make that 80 mile drive over to his shop and tell him, here I am, where is that DS4 equipment. I will dig it all out, You carry on.
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
give the tester pump body a good look over. you might be able to just put an o-ring kit in the pump.Well, I crimped an old injector line and the pump leaks off just like it did when testing injectors... not a drop of fuel out the open end of the line....
They did send some spare parts with the tester. I will contact them and see what they have to say.
Am I doing Great or What??
is this a china made unit or an expensive name brand one? if it's the china made one, most if the time it is best to pull it apart and clean it out as you will find metal fragments inside from the machining process. carefully remove the seals and find some replacements to go in. look for scarring in the piston bore and whatnot. they usually don't last long in use until a new seal kit is needed. basically each time you run through a set of injectors it will need to be re-sealed.
Steak&Eggs
Active Member
This one came from India.... $110 not expensive. I don't know if it is any better. This might be a random failure - it does happen I guess.. Still waiting for a reply. They might want it sent back and replaced or it might have a fatal failure inside?? If they say OK, I'll take it apart and see what I can see!
Steak&Eggs
Active Member
OK, now I have a new replacement injector pop tester. I hooked it up and there is no leak with the pressure line crimped. So far so good. I put it on the shelf waiting for the new Bosch injectors to arrive. Took about a week. When they got here I set up the pop tester and tested no. 1 - the pump leaked off...... I went on with the tests after the 3rd one it started holding pressure again. (after some mighty rapid pumping) So I tested all 8 injectors Pop seems to be within about 100 psi. I am to the point where I do not care much - OK, its not a racing rig. What I am extremely disappointed to find is no. 5 and 6 had fuel seeping out the bypass ports. I gave extra pumps to no. 7 and it had no seepage out the ports. I have not noticed seepage on any of the 3 sets previously tested. (I was not looking for it) No. 6 has a close up of the seepage. Sorry for the very poor quality video - it was impossible for me to operate the pump and hold the camera still... So is it normal for seepage like this to occur sometimes?
Hmmmm, I see mp4 video is no longer allowed or maybe it never was?? I did post video somehow but not this time. I wonder if I can put the file on my server and post a link? I will do that and see if it works!
Hmmmm, I see mp4 video is no longer allowed or maybe it never was?? I did post video somehow but not this time. I wonder if I can put the file on my server and post a link? I will do that and see if it works!
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
create you an account on youtube or Rumble then copy and paste the link here. that would be much easier to share the videos. both sites give you the options to keep your videos unlisted for the public and share a link here so only the folks here can see them. BTW Rumble is ad free if I recall correctly and respects your privacy better than youtube.
Steak&Eggs
Active Member
OK I did that and it works, ( I see that is what I did before
)Right - try that now! ;-)
Steak&Eggs
Active Member
Hey Doug:
I would use utube or rumble but I have no social accounts.... I do get much of my news on Rumble....
I would use utube or rumble but I have no social accounts.... I do get much of my news on Rumble....
Steak&Eggs
Active Member
I did get a response from the seller, it is apparently normal for the return ports to seep a little fuel.
"Yes, the dripping out the return is totally normal. On an injector with an in-ward opening nozzle (which includes almost all diesel injectors), there has to be fuel return, or the nozzle would eventually be hydraulically locked and would not open. The return rates will vary injector to injector and even with a given injector over time."
The other thing is 'peeing' at lower than pop off pressure - (like half pressure) but I did see that in some of the 3 different sets I tested. I will ask about that also...
"Yes, the dripping out the return is totally normal. On an injector with an in-ward opening nozzle (which includes almost all diesel injectors), there has to be fuel return, or the nozzle would eventually be hydraulically locked and would not open. The return rates will vary injector to injector and even with a given injector over time."
The other thing is 'peeing' at lower than pop off pressure - (like half pressure) but I did see that in some of the 3 different sets I tested. I will ask about that also...
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Yes fuel returns are normal to get some through. Nothing to worry about there.
From scrolling the time bar through slowly I think your pressure is off more than 100- peak to peak but nothing to worry about, within factory tolerance levels but as mentioned it’s hard to see on the video. Might be closer than what I can see here. Watching pressure and the difference in misting- I think the spring tension is really close- just difference in fuel volume flow from the tested.
So yeah if you were playing hot rod or were in hyper mileage competition, I would say work on them. How it is- you will have an ok running engine.
Getting them closer than they are now is where spending a lil time vs spending many hours getting them perfect as possible becomes the difference.
I would guess the last set I took to as perfect as possible- spent 2 hours getting them within 100. Spent 8 more hours to get them under 25. One time I was as determined to go within 5psi. after 100 hours using digital gauge and a pump that pushed one pint over 10 seconds…Not thinking I will ever do that nonsense again.
From scrolling the time bar through slowly I think your pressure is off more than 100- peak to peak but nothing to worry about, within factory tolerance levels but as mentioned it’s hard to see on the video. Might be closer than what I can see here. Watching pressure and the difference in misting- I think the spring tension is really close- just difference in fuel volume flow from the tested.
So yeah if you were playing hot rod or were in hyper mileage competition, I would say work on them. How it is- you will have an ok running engine.
Getting them closer than they are now is where spending a lil time vs spending many hours getting them perfect as possible becomes the difference.
I would guess the last set I took to as perfect as possible- spent 2 hours getting them within 100. Spent 8 more hours to get them under 25. One time I was as determined to go within 5psi. after 100 hours using digital gauge and a pump that pushed one pint over 10 seconds…Not thinking I will ever do that nonsense again.
Steak&Eggs
Active Member
Apparently the leaking stream out the injector bottom at lower than pop off pressure is not normal - but of course I don't remember which one that happened on. (or if it is on one of the videos) So I will re-test and be more careful on the pop off pressure as well. ;-)
dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
I always thought that if an injector starts pissing from the exit port before it pops, it's in need of a rebuild or replacement. I know others here have said many times about injectors pissing streams into the combustion chamber can crack a piston and destroy an engine when left like this.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Yes the fine stream can do damage but I wouldn’t put what I saw in the piston damaging critical column. Definitely not desirable and over time could get Bette or worse. I didn’t get sound on those- sound helps to understand what is causing it.
Most commonly going to fine polishing of the flat surfaces helps- NOT THE TIP.
Doing this takes off microns of size and drops pop pressure slightly. The sand/polish is actually the fine point of getting the pressures equal.
The pump you’re using often limits how accurate you can get it.
Rigging a gauge between the lines and injector next to injector and driving a spare db2 with an electric motor on a bench and having the ability to watch the real spray pattern is where it gets to truth- problem is, thats a lot of effort for the diy game. But short of doing that, shops rebuilding and only testing injectors on a hand pump are at the mercy of it. This is why pump rebuilders can usually tune (balance pressures and flow) so well.
See, the pump controls the volume of fuel that goes each cycle- but if an injector isn’t balanced it will allow different amounts each fire. So spraying 8 into beakers at one time, record and reposition all injectors. After doing this several times you can understand what the injectors are really doing (as well as that pump). Getting a pump to push equal volumes takes effort in itself obviously- and is far more labor to do than the injectors.
Most commonly going to fine polishing of the flat surfaces helps- NOT THE TIP.
Doing this takes off microns of size and drops pop pressure slightly. The sand/polish is actually the fine point of getting the pressures equal.
The pump you’re using often limits how accurate you can get it.
Rigging a gauge between the lines and injector next to injector and driving a spare db2 with an electric motor on a bench and having the ability to watch the real spray pattern is where it gets to truth- problem is, thats a lot of effort for the diy game. But short of doing that, shops rebuilding and only testing injectors on a hand pump are at the mercy of it. This is why pump rebuilders can usually tune (balance pressures and flow) so well.
See, the pump controls the volume of fuel that goes each cycle- but if an injector isn’t balanced it will allow different amounts each fire. So spraying 8 into beakers at one time, record and reposition all injectors. After doing this several times you can understand what the injectors are really doing (as well as that pump). Getting a pump to push equal volumes takes effort in itself obviously- and is far more labor to do than the injectors.
MrMarty51
Well-Known Member
I got my set of new Bosch injectors. Six of the eight was just squirting like the one You showed.
I messed with one of the injectors but could not get it to stop squirting before where pop pressure should have been. Could not get pressure built that high.
I contacted the seller and was informed that my methods must be off. He wanted me to send him back the six bad ones then he would send me out six more.
Instead, I okayed it with him and mailed them off to a shop that the equipment maintenance shop where I worked sends their IPs and such for repair.
He tested and adjusted the injectors for ten bucks american per injector.
I dont know how he did it for so cheap, each injector after I got them back popped at precisely 1950 PSI with very minimum leak down. Like one drip in a very long while.
From that experience on, I tell everyone that is installing injectors, get them tested, every one of them.
If I had not waited to get that injector tester and give each of them new units a test, my engine would have been toast.
Maybe the only injectors that might pass without testing would be the ones from Quadstar Tuning that they advertise as being balanced. I think those are the ones that advertised as the marine grade units.
Which I hold no faith in to deliver more fuel than what the IP can shove at them.
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