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one lifter making noise

Just a side thought before you re-install the covers. check the condition of the little plastic push pins retainers that keep the rockers in place over the valves. if in doubt, replace them all. those things are simple plastic retainers and if one comes loose or breaks it can mean disaster for your engine. being it's 27-28 years in age and with the oils and heat cycles I would vote to just replace them all for some cheap insurance and piece of mind.
 
Late Update. Fuel mileage poor - 10 mpg or so empty. Was getting 12 - 13 loaded with the original old 130 K mile injectors. Smoke out the back getting on the freeway. Never smoked before. Started to rattle like it did with the bad injector. I gave up and took it to a shop. They replaced all the injectors with new (not rebuilt) - it ran fine.

But when getting on the freeway it still smoked, and after running about a tank of fuel through the engine, it now makes the lifter noise again. From how fast it ran the tank of fuel out I suspect the mileage has not improved. I will know by the time I take it back to the shop. These injectors were $150 each. I do not know if they are aftermarket or GM. I hoped the shop would know what they were doing. The ones they used did the same as the ones I replaced the nozzles in.

It seems to me, there is something about the injectors that is being missed.
 
if you don't already have one, get you a boost gauge installed. they sell a bolt adapter online that takes one of the upper plenum bolts out and replaces it with a bolt that is drilled though the center with a fitting on the end for connecting a boost gauge. or if your handy with a drill and pipe tap. just remove the upper plenum from the engine, pick a spot and drill though, tap it to 1/8" pipe thread. the gauge you buy should come with tubing and a fitting to thread into the hole you just made.

you want to see some boost on take off but never go over 14 psi on wide open throttle.

upload a video on youtube and link it here for us to see how your truck is running, idling and driving. what your hearing as lifter noise. these diesels are loud and sometimes the clatter can be mistaken for a lifter. especially if the timing is set a little aggressive.
 
All of the lifter noise started with the injectors, first with the new nozzles I installed, and now with the new injectors installed by the shop.
Boost maxes out at ten pounds. I had removed the vacuum pump and replaced the computer controlled actuator with a spring a long time ago. I did not have a gauge at the time so I just guessed and left it a little low. Used it for years like that - ran fine and pulled all the loads I needed it for! (after a chip that got me 100 ft lb and 65 HP) I thought I would turn it up to 13 but that is pretty low priority now!
It ran fine after the shop put in the new lifters, (and the rattle went away) - just like it always did, after a tank of fuel ran through its now making lifter noise. Still runs and drives the same just with the rattle.

Yes, the old diesels like this one are noisy! But I got used to it and hardly notice unless the sound changes like when the lifter causes this rattle.
 
So I had to go back and re-read the entire thread, you already did the injector cut out test on the old ones finding the #4 as a suspect. now a shop has replaced all 8 injectors with new ones. you need to do this test again. loosen each injector line nut and see which one makes a change.

once you locate it, take it back to the shop and let them know which one is bad.

on a side note, did the shop pressure test and adjust each injector before installing? all new injectors need to be tested and adjusted to within 50psi of each other.

something else I caught in your last post. did the shop also replace lifters too?
 
I sent My injectors off to a shop, they came back all adjusted and everyone of them pops at 1950 pounds.
I notice that they do rattle more than the old injectors. The old ones was very quiet compared to these.
At least now We know that it is not low boost pressures causing the black smoke.
 
Umm, my bad - kindly replace 'lifters' with 'injectors'.... I have not replaced any lifters!

I decided not to take the turbo off and check if it is a injector due to the warranty. I took it back to the shop for them to check.
Turns out that was a good thing, the guy in charge calls me up and starts reading from the screen about how I voided the warranty by checking the injectors. (I checked the ones I rebuilt) That got my fire going alright. He stated I never told him about the lifter knock. I stated that had no bearing on the injectors he installed. I suggested he replace no parts until the source of the issue was discovered. He did state the injectors were AC Delco from GM. And I still am getting 10 mpg and blowing fuel out the exhaust. So I am waiting on the shop now. Kinda disappointed with them at the moment. We shall see.
 
Well, the shop is trying to get out of everything, in their defense all they did was replace the injectors with new ones from GM. They were going to send it out to another location that had a diesel mech. That would have been good, but they just put in the injectors - no testing before install. It is not a tough job so OK. On the other hand I informed them there was an issue because I had rebuilt the originals and that is when my trouble started. Mighty strange that a new GM set seems to have the same problems, smoking on startup and acceleration, then the knock after running a while.....

I had kept the old parts - so compared the new (made in china) nozzles and needle valve ( I do not know what they are called) with the original nozzles (well 1 of them) made in Germany. Same part #. The original was very worn but still moved smoothly in and out of the seat housing. The new one looked new - no wear visible, but it moved freely for about 1/4" and then gets hard to pull all the way out or put back in. When fully in place it moved freely again as long as the needle is not removed completely from the housing. It was not like that when I installed it the first time, the needle moved freely all the way when completely removed from the housing and re-inserted. I don't gain much from the comparison, the business end of the needle valve looked very much like the worn original. I washed out the one with the extra friction and blew it out with air but no change even when lubricated with a drop of oil. I guess I will need to take it to a good diesel shop and see what goes.

If I ever find out what is going on I'll be sure and let everyone know!
 
very few shops know what there doing other than just changing parts nowadays. especially with these old 6.5's. It's like finding a needle in a hey stack finding a good shop that's reliable.

at this point I would cut your looses on this shop and do it your self. Trust no one! except for the guys here LOL.

@Rockabillyrat would be your guy for injector rebuild. he can rebuild yours better than you can get new one off the shelf. also purchasing new from one of the supporting vendors here can give you better results as well. I know everyone hates dealing with warranty, even the OEMs get paid half rates for the re-working they have to do to make things right. it just plain sux and usually the customer ends up getting the raw end of the deal.

one thing to note if you get new or have someone rebuild, don't open them other than just installing so the warranty stays valid. you might send a message to Rockalillyrat and see what and if he can do anything for the ones you have. both sets he might could make a good set out of them with some labor and new genuine nozzles.

I want to try dabbling in the rebuild process myself but hardly have the time or equipment. when the day comes near he will be the one I would want to go to.
 
Well seems to be a lot I have not posted on this story. So.... It was not even 50 miles another knock started. Took it to the shop they installed new AC Delco injectors #217-3226. It started and ran fine - no knock, for almost a full tank of fuel. Then started knocking and smoking at startup and on ramps. No support from the shop so I spent a couple more days on the internet and finally found a few spec on the 217-3226. One that caught my eye was that it was for a direct injection system. I thought my '95 6.5 was an in-direct setup so I did a little more research and found some info that agreed with me (Wikipedia no less). It seems the correct injector part # is 217-1404 - AC Delco for in-direct systems. I did find some missing nuts on the intake manifold studs and not torqued down (I can move the hot water line at the manifold with my fingers). Ho-Hum I guess I will try to get them to give me the correct injectors and let me install them. I sure hope it fixes the issue with injectors. I started it today to roll it to the drive way in front of my tool shed so I could work on it, was planning to test the pop off pressure but I think I will not bother as they are the wrong ones in any case!
 
Oh - it smoked a little when started, (it has sat for a few days and its kinda cool weather) and it missed for a while then started hitting on all of them, just like the old worn injectors do on my backhoe (yep, I need to fix that also)
 
Ha, I keep spotting on various pages selling - how the injectors use electric and magnetic to fire. Not the case with these. I also found the injector on AC Delco web page for the in-direct injector is 5 inches long. That will not fit - its to tall. The direct injection is 3.6 inches tall - the ones I took out are a shade less than 3 inches tall - It looks like the mfg. does not even know their product or the web page has lost in translation or both :). So it is still up in the air. Drat. Of course there is no way to contact AC Delco on the web page. Everything is normal here! ;-] I am not sure I can post a link here, but I'll put it up and see! https://parts-catalog.acdelco.com/acesCat.php#
 
the only difference in the 1404 and the 3226 is OE and professional your engine should use the "short" body injectors as for turbo applications. they do make a "long" body injector but that is for non-turbo applications, also your IP fuel lines will not fit on the long body ones iirc.

All of the 6.2 and 6.5 engines are in-direct injection. or IDI engines.

@Will L. or @WarWagon can answer this better than I can. also @Rockabillyrat can set you up rebuilding the ones you have with quality parts rather than relying on what you get at any of the stores nowadays.

what it seems to me is the injectors you received that the shop installed may possibly be "fake" delco injectors. there are a LOT of fakes out in the market on top of delco having all their things made in china now.
 
Steak&Eggs said:
Ha, I keep spotting on various pages selling - how the injectors use electric and magnetic to fire. Not the case with these. I also found the injector on AC Delco web page for the in-direct injector is 5 inches long. That will not fit - its to tall. The direct injection is 3.6 inches tall - the ones I took out are a shade less than 3 inches tall - It looks like the mfg. does not even know their product or the web page has lost in translation or both :). So it is still up in the air. Drat. Of course there is no way to contact AC Delco on the web page. Everything is normal here! ;-] I am not sure I can post a link here, but I'll put it up and see! https://parts-catalog.acdelco.com/acesCat.php#
Click to expand...
Get a set from Leroy Diesel. They are suppose to be matched. Be sure to test them before installing them.
 
The originals were Bosch, the old worn out ones performed better than the replacements. I found new Bosch injectors 8 for about $500 but I suspect they are made in china, India or somewhere - not Germany. The same outfit selling the Bosch also stated the ones they rebuild are better than many of the new china knock off stuff. There are two shops that have been recommended locally one is an over the road shop and the other works on over the road tractors and pick up size engines as well I am considering a visit to see what experience they have had. I will send a note to Rockabillyrat - thanks for the tip! I will contact Leroy as well. On a side note has anyone connected an injector to the engine IP but squirting in a jar and observed the output? The manual test pump gives an idea and you can see the pop pressure but its a long squirt as opposed to just a pulse...
 
Steak&Eggs said:
The originals were Bosch, the old worn out ones performed better than the replacements. I found new Bosch injectors 8 for about $500 but I suspect they are made in china, India or somewhere - not Germany. The same outfit selling the Bosch also stated the ones they rebuild are better than many of the new china knock off stuff. There are two shops that have been recommended locally one is an over the road shop and the other works on over the road tractors and pick up size engines as well I am considering a visit to see what experience they have had. I will send a note to Rockabillyrat - thanks for the tip! I will contact Leroy as well. On a side note has anyone connected an injector to the engine IP but squirting in a jar and observed the output? The manual test pump gives an idea and you can see the pop pressure but its a long squirt as opposed to just a pulse...
Click to expand...
That would be easiest accomplished with the intake system removed. Be nice to have a couple of old injector pipes. Install a T between them then install a 3 or 5 thousand PSI pressure gauge to the T.
The gauge would rapidly flicker but a person could get a general idea at the pressure being created.
 
Word: Pictures. Video.

A video of the engine cranking can let us hear if one hole has low compression. Knock sounds may be known to us.

It smokes,,, What Color and when esp. if the color is different?

Black is too much fuel or not enough air.
Check the simple things like the air filter and mouse nest clogging the intake.

Leave the shop a bad Google review to warn others. I suggest a real shop that knows a piston crown from their sister's ****. Missing bolts is a very bad sign.

Assumed white smoke on startup suggests one or more bad glow plugs. You may have had one overheat due to the bad injector and is blown in half now stuck in a piston crown. Broken glow plug debris is a favorite way for these engines to cause trouble, but, not actually die. I have run many miles with impacted glow plugs causing minor issues. The carbon buildup on one injector I also experienced and never found a good explanation.

Test the glow plug system. I like to record temps with an IR gun stone cold engine close to each glow plug. Then cycle the glow plugs without engine start a couple times and then see how much the areas have warmed up if any.

The injector part number is a sideshow that isn't addressing your actual problem. I have run whatever injector will fit including long body with two manifold gaskets to clear this bailing wire and goat F$%& afterthought of a miserable turbo setup. Just saying it's Bad Injector vs. wrong part number.

Your engine is "modified" with the vac system delete thus you are your own warranty station even though IMO it's not the cause of your trouble. The Vac system is actually a better system than the spring can Esp. for MPG. Again not your immediate problem unless you have black smoke from needing more boost.
 
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