Hard starting in cold weather with 98/95 merge

[bison]

OK, got the scanner yesterday,installed it on my puter and i got "somewhat" educated in the use of it.

Some data observed on this here 98 today.

Fuel sol closure time, 2.14 to 2.20 ? supposed to be 1.70 to 1.90. What does that mean?

Preferred timing, 12.
Actual timing, 12.

TDC offset, - 2.20

Boost, 14 psi. [seems rather high for idle]

Coolant temp, 177 F

Idle RPM, 590. supposed to be 630, can it be reset?

batt voltage 16.4 [kinda high me thinks]
ignition voltage 12.9

all readings taken at idle . 1 DTC found ' glowcontroller high resolution[forgot #],but dont know if it is present or historic.

There is some how a continious drain on the batts, as they where stone dead after a week of sitting.[ another friggin gremlin]

Your musings folkes ?

 

[NVW]

Rotate the pump to pass side to get the act. & pref. timing to 8.5 or lower (I know you know that:smile5, then do a TDCO learn to get -1.94 or lower. Then take it from there.

Leo

Edit: the boost is probably barometric

 

[buddy]

Looks like you have a timing issue As NVW said need to retard it some. Now I have seen 10-12 degrees on a cold startup, but it levels out to 8-9 degrees. stock would be 3.5 degrees, also what is the idle fuel rate in mm3?

OK, got the scanner yesterday,installed it on my puter and i got "somewhat" educated in the use of it.

Some data observed on this here 98 today.

Fuel sol closure time, 2.14 to 2.20 ? supposed to be 1.70 to 1.90. What does that mean?
This is your injection pulse width as seen by the PMD, a higher resistor value in it, or increased resistance in a long cable might cause increased pulse width, but that is really high for idle, normally doesnt go above 1.9 until driving and put a load on it, it shouldnt even increase with throttle at idle

Preferred timing, 12.
Actual timing, 12.
On GMTDScan I see an actual IP timing and a measured IP timing, the measured timing should between 3.5 and 9 degrees at idle, and actual is like 30 degrees

TDC offset, - 2.20
This is out of spec, which is +/- 2.02

Boost, 14 psi. [seems rather high for idle]
This is including the atmospheric pressure, have to find calculated boost
Coolant temp, 177 F

Idle RPM, 590. supposed to be 630, can it be reset?
Should definately be higher

batt voltage 16.4 [kinda high me thinks]
ignition voltage 12.9
Not sure how you have battery voltage different than ignition voltage, definately something suspicious here

all readings taken at idle . 1 DTC found ' glowcontroller high resolution[forgot #],but dont know if it is present or historic.

There is some how a continious drain on the batts, as they where stone dead after a week of sitting.[ another friggin gremlin]

Your musings folkes ?

 

[bison]

thanks guys, that is what i figured, retard the timing some. that also may or may not change the idle RPM's.

on the inj pulse width, the local 6.5 guru told me that a high closure time kills PMD's faster than anything else. [true,or false?]
PMD has a #5 resistor and ext cable is less than 3 feet long.

idle fuel rate is 7 mm.

now i have to fahsion a pump timing lever yet,and modefy some wrenches to get to the pump bolts without having to remove any thing.

 

[NVW]

A screw driver and a couple bolts will work for a timing lever. On my GMTDScan while in time set the des. and act. timing are the same at 8.5* Looking at the actual timing when looking at the injection pump sensor it is about 30*. I think in time set it is the static base timing, and the sensor reading is while running.

Leo

 

[buddy]

If you have a PMD extension cable that can be removed temporarily to ensure that it is not causing the issue that might be helpful. Otherwise if you extended the lines yourself you can unplug the F/Sol harness (grey one by the IP on mine) and remove the PMD harness and ohm check the wires from one harness to the other. I attached a document that tells you the pins on each harness, but ignore the PCM pins as they are for OBD1. General rule of thumb would be more than 1 ohm is bad on any single line.

When you fix the TDCO all your problems may go away, except that battery voltage which is odd. It may even bring your idle up.

 

[bison]

I got a spare IP i used as a template to make the lever ,2 bolts and a foot of 1/2 steel rod welded on.works perfect.
What did not work however was moving the pump to the pass side,made the stuation worse.
Tomorrow is an other day.

And yes, batt volt is still recorded as 16+ gauge reads 13.5. [WTF] Alt going funny?

 

[NVW]

I got a spare IP i used as a template to make the lever ,2 bolts and a foot of 1/2 steel rod welded on.works perfect.
What did not work however was moving the pump to the pass side,made the stuation worse.
Tomorrow is an other day.

And yes, batt volt is still recorded as 16+ gauge reads 13.5. [WTF] Alt going funny?

This doesn't make sense, pass side should retard timing. Do you have a good DVM to check bat voltage? Something is screwy.

Leo

 

[buddy]

When you say it made it worse, did you mean the dead pedal problem or the timing numbers? Did you run the TDC Offset learn procedure?

 

[bison]

Notting seems to make sense. Yesterday,retarding the timing 1 mm ,and after doing the relearn.The engine had trouble starting and would hardly keep running,trowing TDC ofset codes.
This morning I advanced the pump 1 mm beyond original setting. she runs with a little less rattle but smooth. TDC offset on the scanner went to -2.46. Actual timing, 12
The relearn did not take effect, I tried it twice.The temps where over 170.

Iam getting a tad annoyed now.

 

[NVW]

Did you do Time Set first? The ecm may not have adjusted base timing so the stepper motor can't compensate.

When my truck set code 88 I purchased ScanTech and did Time Set then a relearn, It almost stalled and ran rough for 30 seconds then smoothed right out after the relearn was finished.

Leo

 

[ak diesel driver]

This may be unrelated or you may already know it or both but I found it quite interesting. I got my GL4 today and put it in, while I was reading the instructions I came across a section that talked about PCM- IP coordination. It states" This procedure is used to coordinate the IP and the new Computer. The process teaches the new computer the exact phasing or TDC Offset position of the IP. If your TDC Offset had been set to within factory range, It will not require any adjustment and only this process to coordinate is needed."

Here is the process:
1) switch the ign key 'on'---engine off
2)press the throttle to the floorand hold it there for 1-minute (minimum)
3)release the throttle, turn key off and wait 1-minute (min)
4)glow plug and start the engine. When the coolant temp reaches 170*F, the learn process will happen. You may notice a stumble or a miss that occurs at the precise instant the computer/pump coordination occurs.

 

[Matt Bachand]

I got a spare IP i used as a template to make the lever ,2 bolts and a foot of 1/2 steel rod welded on.works perfect.
What did not work however was moving the pump to the pass side,made the stuation worse.
Tomorrow is an other day.

And yes, batt volt is still recorded as 16+ gauge reads 13.5. [WTF] Alt going funny?

What is actual batt volts and alt output via multimeter?

 

[buddy]

That is interesting, I have seen people refer to this, and when you quote the whole thing it makes more sense. I wonder what the differnce between this coordination and the actual learn procedure are. The Scanner has to do the learn procedure with the PCM, but the PCM has its own little communication calibration.

This may be unrelated or you may already know it or both but I found it quite interesting. I got my GL4 today and put it in, while I was reading the instructions I came across a section that talked about PCM- IP coordination. It states" This procedure is used to coordinate the IP and the new Computer. The process teaches the new computer the exact phasing or TDC Offset position of the IP. If your TDC Offset had been set to within factory range, It will not require any adjustment and only this process to coordinate is needed."

Here is the process:
1) switch the ign key 'on'---engine off
2)press the throttle to the floorand hold it there for 1-minute (minimum)
3)release the throttle, turn key off and wait 1-minute (min)
4)glow plug and start the engine. When the coolant temp reaches 170*F, the learn process will happen. You may notice a stumble or a miss that occurs at the precise instant the computer/pump coordination occurs.

 

[bison]

This may be unrelated or you may already know it or both but I found it quite interesting. I got my GL4 today and put it in, while I was reading the instructions I came across a section that talked about PCM- IP coordination. It states" This procedure is used to coordinate the IP and the new Computer. The process teaches the new computer the exact phasing or TDC Offset position of the IP. If your TDC Offset had been set to within factory range, It will not require any adjustment and only this process to coordinate is needed."

Here is the process:
1) switch the ign key 'on'---engine off
2)press the throttle to the floorand hold it there for 1-minute (minimum)
3)release the throttle, turn key off and wait 1-minute (min)
4)glow plug and start the engine. When the coolant temp reaches 170*F, the learn process will happen. You may notice a stumble or a miss that occurs at the precise instant the computer/pump coordination occurs.

That is called the KOKO [key on key off] procedure.
that is how TDC relearn is done as far as i know[AllData states the same procedure].

 

[bison]

Well, i finally got the TDC offset done,
Took only a C hair retard to get there in the end,so the pump was close to perfect to start with.
The problem was ,The KOKO methode [as described in above posts] to start the offset relearn did not work yesterday and not today either for quite some try's.
The last time i tried, i held the pedal to the floor for 2 full min,and key off for another 2 min. i started up,[temps where still 180 F] and right way the offset jumped to -0.76.
I felt that was good enough.
Idle jumped to 610 rpm.I got a high idle switch anyway.

I dont know if this solved the sub idle/dead pedal or not,will have to wait for winter again to find out.

now the high batt voltage is a concern,i could not test volts,someone must have "borrowed" my DVM.I need to get one of these again.
On the scanner the LP voltage read 15.4. now thats a good way to burn things up.

 

[ak diesel driver]

I've heard you can be clear up to 16 volts before it becomes a problem. Some of the racers use 16v batteries without an alt to reduce weight and power loss.

 

[buddy]

What does the TDCO read on the scanner now?

Is this KOKO procedure only for OBD2?

GMTDScan just does it for me when I press a button in the software. Does the AE software not have it?

 

[bison]

What does the TDCO read on the scanner now?

Is this KOKO procedure only for OBD2?

GMTDScan just does it for me when I press a button in the software. Does the AE software not have it?

TDCO is -0.76 after relearn completed. Close enough .

KOKO works on OBD 1 and 2.

If AE has a button for it ,i would not know where to find it.! AE also dont provide injector test like SCAN tech.

 

[ak diesel driver]

I noticed my stumbling dead pedal got worse with my GL4.