Going mechanical with a Moose Omega Marine IP

[Will L.]

the governor in the pump...

 

[FatFut]

Will you have my attention. Can you elaborate?

 

[Will L.]

I cant tell you how much to adjust it or which way. 20ish years ago I learned enough to pay someone who knows what they are doing. But the job of the regulator in the db2 is to set top rpm limit.

Maybe someone else here can tell fatfut how to find what rpm his valves float at? Haha. What is your top rpm now?

 

[6.5L]

The governor in the pump more or less controls the fuel curve. Stock fuel curves are set to level out around 2700rpm-ish. If the governor is adjustable, you can adjust it to raise the fuel curve at higher rpm's. This, however, also controls the max-rpm limit. I adjusted mine up to get more fuel up top but I also had a max rpm of 4500rpm before it cut fuel. Not the best thing honestly. Anything past 4100rpm seems to just run out of steam. (head, cam, etc...) Now that brings us to issue #2. You mess with one thing, it messes with everything else. Adjusting the governor also increases the need for the fuel at higher rpms. For this, you need to adjust internal transfer pump pressure. This is done by taking off the fuel inlet cone and adjusting the transfer pump screw. So let's say you've made it that far. Next comes the issue of 'well, now I have more internal fuel pressure, however my power seems to stay the same or decreased". That's the next two issues. The first being the vent screw that sits under the governor guide stud internally. I believe Stanadyne makes 5 different sizes, depending on how worn out the pump is. After a point, the size can't handle the flow, and turning up internal fuel pressure does nothing. Next issue: more internal housing pressure means more timing advance. You have to counter act that by adjusting the LLA mechanism to bring dynamic timing back to a usable range, and also, static timing will need to be adjusted to retard the timing overall. I've personally been tuning my pump this was for the past year+ and I will tell you, it's a dancing act. One little tweek means everything has to be re-adjusted and played with again. Test drive after test drive. Gets exhausting

 

[FatFut]

Right now my truck just goes limp at 3000. Pulls like hell up to that point though.Sounds like I need to contact Conastogaand order up a Bull Moose.

 

[n8in8or]

Right now my truck just goes limp at 3000. Pulls like hell up to that point though.Sounds like I need to contact Conastogaand order up a Bull Moose.

Tell Conestoga what you want the truck to do and they will build the pump for you. Also Unique Diesel, who is a site vendor, does very good work.

 

[consaka]

Hows that new gearing working? I have a full float 14 bolt with 3.73's in it. It has an ARB locker. not sure I could put in a 3.42. At least without replacing the locker.

 

[FellowTraveler]

Hows that new gearing working? I have a full float 14 bolt with 3.73's in it. It has an ARB locker. not sure I could put in a 3.42. At least without replacing the locker.

ARB carrier for the 14 bolt ff can be used with all gear ratios.

 

[n8in8or]

Hows that new gearing working? I have a full float 14 bolt with 3.73's in it. It has an ARB locker. not sure I could put in a 3.42. At least without replacing the locker.

No new gearing yet. I did get a used set of GM gears, but that's it so far. I'll slowly collect parts and then eventually switch. I am still excited to do the swap though. When I pay attention to it, it spends so little time in first gear that it should make a nice change in the truck both just driving around and on the highway.

 

[consaka]

The awesome thing about the 14 bolts is how easy they are to set up. Pretty sure whatever you got in the front won't be nearly so easy.

 

[FellowTraveler]

The awesome thing about the 14 bolts is how easy they are to set up. Pretty sure whatever you got in the front won't be nearly so easy.

Front clam shell diff is PITA to set up, then there is the industry wide manufacturing defects of the newer styled outer seals 'cocked in their housings' and leaking like crazy so it becomes an effort to get good newer styled seals that are manufactured right.

There is some info on web to use GM's seal however it appears GM has switched to the defective units too so inspect them carefully and do the job right the first time.

 

[n8in8or]

Front clam shell diff is PITA to set up, then there is the industry wide manufacturing defects of the newer styled outer seals 'cocked in their housings' and leaking like crazy so it becomes an effort to get good newer styled seals that are manufactured right.

There is some info on web to use GM's seal however it appears GM has switched to the defective units too so inspect them carefully and do the job right the first time.

Good to know. My plan is to get a unit out of the junkyard with the right gears and swap the whole unit. I was thinking I would open it up and inspect and reseal, but perhaps if I get one that isn't leaking I'll just leave it alone and put it in as-is.

 

[FellowTraveler]

Good to know. My plan is to get a unit out of the junkyard with the right gears and swap the whole unit. I was thinking I would open it up and inspect and reseal, but perhaps if I get one that isn't leaking I'll just leave it alone and put it in as-is.

Outer seal replacement requires a heavy puller for drivers side to remove the drive flange, the pass side requires the removal of the steel extension housing then remove the circle spring clip to remove the shaft "in all cases new circle spring axle retaining clips are required."

 

[Husker6.5]

When you finally get those 3.42's installed, Nate, do some hwy cruising mpg runs (like at a steady 75mph on the Interstate for 30-40 miles) and see how much your mileage has improved over the 3.73's. With the 3:42's you should be sitting right atop the 6.5's torque peak, and with your build up, power should be effortlessly on-tap

 

[FellowTraveler]

When you finally get those 3.42's installed, Nate, do some hwy cruising mpg runs (like at a steady 75mph on the Interstate for 30-40 miles) and see how much your mileage has improved over the 3.73's. With the 3:42's you should be sitting right atop the 6.5's torque peak, and with your build up, power should be effortlessly on-tap

When I ran 3.42 gear sets near stock the Burb got great mpg's as I modified for performance the peak torque output climbed up the rpm scale to the point I went back 4.10's now that I'm going w/Cummins conversion I'll do 3.42's again....

 

[n8in8or]

When you finally get those 3.42's installed, Nate, do some hwy cruising mpg runs (like at a steady 75mph on the Interstate for 30-40 miles) and see how much your mileage has improved over the 3.73's. With the 3:42's you should be sitting right atop the 6.5's torque peak, and with your build up, power should be effortlessly on-tap

Will do.

 

[n8in8or]

Well, I finally did it, I made it to the dragstrip today! Today was the last Test 'n' Tune session for the season at US 131 Motorsports Park and had an opportunity to go so I went. It was a perfect day weather-wise for making power. This was the first time I have ever been on a drag strip, but it went pretty well. In fact my first run was my best one of the day. So to cut to the chase....my first and best run was a 14.00!!!!! I was SHOCKED!! I was expecting (hoping?) for a run in the high 14s, so when I ran that number right out of the box I was blown away! This was the only run where I noted EGT and Boost: I had a max EGT of 1150 and on the top end of the track I was running 26 pounds of boost. I launched at 5psi of boost and floored it when the light turned green and then it was just a matter of holding my foot to the floor. This run was next to a friend of mine and it was also his first time at the strip so we both took our time to stage and get it right. I had plenty of time to get my boost right....in fact too much time because I was boosted and ready to go and he was still staged! I didn't want to get too much heat in the system so I backed out of it and waited then ramped it back up.

My second run (the video below) I was up against a VW GTI. I know they're quick, but I thought it would probably be a good race.....uh no. He wasn't very stock apparently, as he ran a 12.25! That run I didn't have or take as much time to stage and get boosted and I don't think I had a full 5psi built up before launching. That and/or a little heat soak resulted in a run of 14.17, which is still really good. Interestingly the mph was up just a little on that run.

My third run, which I planned on being my last, I decided to push it and try to launch with 7psi of boost. Well that was just a bit too much as I lit up the tires on the line. I hate my Gov-Loc. The whole thing where it releases at 20 mph sucks. I have a fighting chance of still moving while both tires are spinning, but as soon as it unlocks I have 1 tire fire and then my forward progress is much diminished. I know why GM did it, but I still hate it. When I do the 3.42 gears I will definitely be doing a Detroit Tru Trac or something similar. Anyway, this run was still a 14.85 so I can't complain, and I still beat my friend's G6 GXP so that was cool too.

Overall it was a really fun experience and it's cool to put some numbers behind the work I've done to this truck. One part of today's success was the weather: 63 and sunny with reasonable humidity, so nice cool air to make power with, yet the track was warm enough to give some good traction. I made all of my runs in 2 wheel drive just to see what I could do and also to not go too crazy with the boost at launch and mess up tie rods. Plus I've tried some 4 wheel drive stuff and it just feels like the parasitic loss negates any gains on the low end. Testing at the strip could confirm or debunk that theory, but I didn't want to mess with it today. I'd actually rather just slap some sticky rubber on the back and keep messing with 2 wheel drive, but we'll see.

So now I have a baseline and I can use it as a testing tool in the future. I still have to try: water injection (maybe some meth too???), larger downpipe, 3.42 gears and some turbo stuff too (larger turbine, maybe VVT, maybe QSV). I will go to the dyno soon too, just to see what it puts down and also use that as a tool for future testing. I'm really stoked though.....and so shocked still that I put that number down! I should have a 13 in my future with any luck and then who knows how far into the 13s I can push it?? Not bad for a 5900 pound truck!

 

[n8in8or]

Here are some pics.

 

[Will L.]

Haha! My family is looking at me crazy from me cheering "flat 14!" out loud. Awesome man.

Whats the deal with the smoke limiter and the runs? Were you cutting back on the fuel for those runs? No, right?

http://www.ajdesigner.com/fl_horsepower_elapsed_time/horsepower_elapsed_time.php

14.00et &5900lbs says 425 hp. We know its really a lower end torque number because the engine will never hit the 5252 rpm torque/hp match up, but makes me wonder about your flywheel torque numbers...

Also how fast is full loaded acceleration of engine rpm from 1,000 to 3,000 rpm. Hmm.

Very nice.

 

[Hink]

AWWWWESOME, MAN!!!

And here I was happy tonight for seeing another 20PSI from my ATT. Ha!