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D-Tech,Dipaco, Flight Systems PMD failure-run away

I would think my temp extremes to be among the worst -40s to high 80s and I bought my truck with 60k on the clock. Ip was replaced 2x under warranty (which was pmd IMO) replaced the last time at 119k. Then I remote mounted with Walts set up plus a cable but it is still under the hood by DS batt, and it's still going. My plow truck I remoted it first thing after I got it and it failed less than 10 hours later and was replaced with my new spare FS FSD.
 
How are Heath units supposed to be mounted, what does it mount to in the instructions?

It makes sense that a unit in the bumper would last longer because it doesnt experience the heat cycling up in temp, only the low. Thats what makes it a good solution in most trucks.
 
ak diesel driver said:
I would think my temp extremes to be among the worst -40s to high 80s and I bought my truck with 60k on the clock. Ip was replaced 2x under warranty (which was pmd IMO) replaced the last time at 119k. Then I remote mounted with Walts set up plus a cable but it is still under the hood by DS batt, and it's still going. My plow truck I remoted it first thing after I got it and it failed less than 10 hours later and was replaced with my new spare FS FSD.
Click to expand...

AK, the temp range there is big but it does not swing as much day to day, it is steadily up or down.
In TX, you can have 60F one day and 20F the next day and back to 50F the day after. It happened this February here.
We had 80F on Monday and Snow on Tuesday. That is what kills PMD.
 
mine is mounted under the hood tho, so when it's -40 it gets warmed up to underhood temps that's a pretty big swing in my book
 
Heath's Mounts to the skidplate which I was never in love with if you go off road. It's vulnerable to stumps and rocks...as is the rest of the truck...:D
TD, You saw it yourself at my house when we swapped PMD's. And BTW if you read through some 6.2 Posts on my old 90 Burb that wouldn't shut off....I TREID THE HOLY WATER>>>>:rof:
All my trucks have been doused with Holy water and it didn't help.....:D

There is a pattern though..Every other truck is a POS. Tahoe was a POS. Green 2000 GMC good truck...Dodge POS...CUCV a good truck...Dually a POS....90 Blue Burb... good truck....Red Burb...Heading down the dark road of PMD problems...So next truck will be an M1009 and will be a good truck.
Also the D Tech that was making hte Dually shake so bad...is the one I used on the burb to test if the PMD was the issue with the cruise and it worked fine...:wtf:
I did win Motley Crue tickets the other day so my luck ain't all bad..Course the concert isn't until July and Sixx Could OD by then....:rof:
 
Yeah, when mounted on the intake/IP, and the truck left outside in negative temps, it would be prone to failure. Thats the swing, like AK said.

I dont live where it ever even freezes. Mine lives happily on the intake. My swing is from 45 to 130F worst case. If that were -20 to 130F it would be a lot worse.

If the truck is garaged or block heaters used then then PMDs connected to the engine may not do as bad. I notice a lot of heaters on AK's truck, but not sure if used all the time.

Putting them in the bumper it may only go from -20 to 40F. Of course at extreme colds that can make things brittle or cause condensation arent great either. Sometimes my phone wont even work when it gets near freezing.

Engine bay temps arent necessarily so bad when its cold outside.
 
Turbine Doc said:
FWIW the grounding of a Heath unit does not happen through the mounting bolts, gnd for it is strictly through the harness itself.

My 1st one started it's life 3 years mounted to the plastic license plate holder it's almost 7 years old before I relocated it inside my Buckstop bumper, 2nd one on burb going into year 5 also mounted on the plastic plate holder on front bumper.

Fail rate published or unpublished has been relatively low or we would hear of more of them.

Some may remember the RemarQ "improved & redesigned" units when they started failing like the flight systems ones apparently are starting to happen the word went out like wildfire, if the fail rate of the Heath units were high as some are indicating may be happening.

I'm confident the aggravation & cost would make it to mainstream on web "I paid big $ for this and it doesn't last any longer than the rest of em", the 6.5 crowd as frugal as it is would get that word out fast, I doubt a conscious effort to keep that information from getting out. Every forum that has a 6.5 discussion #1 topic is PMD related and if a bunch of bad ones from Heath were out there it would come out yet the opposite seems to be the norm, bad driver replaced with a Heath and have not had a problem in X years.

Apparently what he is doing is working, while some choose to not believe the test I ran years ago, and the data sampling where located & how long it lasted in that location, and what setup, those results did in fact show the Heath to have the best longevity of all tested then.

Heat is a factor whether it be the failure of components, or the cyclic extremes mechanically causing fails of connections/components, the problems of temperature have not escaped Stanadyne or Flight systems as both openly advertise their redesigns to be more heat tolerant, if heat wasn't a component of fails why make mention of it?

To the postulation of ones that are mounted on trucks that don't have much ambient condition changes lasting longer than those that do have many swings through the year ??? Possibly

But consider Ellensburg, Wa. where they are made have many ambient changes, as do places like Canada where they run successfully, in my own vehicle testing where temps in summer are very high and temps can get single digit and vehicle has been in upper US Great Lakes winters the Heath has survived all these years. Only fails on my truck I have ever had have been IP mounted, intake mounted, driver side fender mounted just aft of battery, since mounting out of bay on Heath remote 0 fails 2 vehicles is success in my book.

Why did Stanadyne wait so long to fess up???? Liability plain & simple, it would have cost GM & Stanadyne far too much to campaign replace all of them rather than via attrition when/if they happen. As it was also documented in survey I did that some drivers lasted life of the trucks at that time a couple in 300K mile range mounted on the IP and were still operational.

Will Heath's failure rate go up with the new drivers when sources of black ones dry up? Possibly ? Kind of neat though that his KISS setup works so well and defies logic & calculations of those that have tried to debunk it over the years.
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See, I told ya!......Tim, jd and the rest of the early alumni have gone over this stuff......How can you even disagree with YEARS of independent 6.5 knowledge/testing that has been documented and questioned, only to be proven repeatedly.

Maybe i'm one of the few that read the threads from the 2004 archives when they first started this "tinkering".......Just about all the work has been done, maybe even 2 and/or 3 times over.

Trust the GURU's, (You all know who they are) when "they" say something works, it usually does (A-Team Turbo anyone?).......Just about every "issue" that a EFI 6.5TD has had, was solved.

We are a lucky bunch of guys and (Missy) to have such a still working/improving knowledge base at our finger tips.
 
No one is really disagreeing with them, but there are exceptions to every rule. People have theirs located like they recommend and they still fail. Independent research on a couple vehicles isnt really that thorough of a test, which is why there are exceptions to the rules. If that were the case then I could definitively say that the intake is the best place for a PMD since I have had it one there for 4 YEARS. But its an exception, I accept that.

If you dont question stagnant thinking, then you never advance your knowledge. There must be other failure modes unrelated to heat.
 
buddy said:
No one is really disagreeing with them, but there are exceptions to every rule. People have theirs located like they recommend and they still fail. Independent research on a couple vehicles isn't really that thorough of a test, which is why there are exceptions to the rules. If that were the case then I could definitively say that the intake is the best place for a PMD since I have had it one there for 4 YEARS. But its an exception, I accept that.

If you don't question stagnant thinking, then you never advance your knowledge. There must be other failure modes unrelated to heat.
Click to expand...

Agreed, mine is still on the IP......But if/when it does fail, take a guess who'll be getting my money.

On Edit:
I don't think the "stagnant thinking" is the correct term......Maybe, "revised reference" thinking.........and the advancement of knowledge is still apparent in the 6.5ers, the perfect example being the A-Team Turbo......You can actually call this stagnant?..... http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?13608-A-Team-Turbo-A-Year-Later....All 219 posts.......and what went on behind closed doors to even get to "A year later".......Stagnant?

I must Disagree, refreshing and optimistic is what drove that project, Kudos too Dennis (Slim Shady) , Tim (Turbine Doc) and all else involved for the man hours, documenting, manufacturing details, etc.....

Still don't forget the vendor/members, Leroy (PMDCABLE.COM) - Patrick (Walking J) - and now Bruce (PT Wiring) - ETC.

Include yourself in there also Buddy....(I'd like to see you become a vendor here)....you are the resident OBDI Tech, with your detailed info.

This forum is far from stagnant and/or stingy (Help a Brother Out)......We're like the "Red Cross, Salvation Army and the Boy Scouts, all rolled into one online community!

This site is full of the greatest people I've never met!:agreed:
 
Last edited:
And there is nothing untrue about all the information to date, but there is more to be discovered or improved upon.

I worked on programs that depended heavily on heat cyclining to determine reliability, lifecycles in the field. I have been involved in several programs of user equipment that had to go through heat cycling. Sustained high temps were never a problem, like it is with processors overheating or something. The cycling we did always weeded out the good from the bad though. And we had a lot of bad to find the good circuit board designs, components and layouts.

We also did/still do shock and vibe testing. taking the PMD off the engine is probably good just to reduce vibration.
 
On Edit:
I don't think the "stagnant thinking" is the correct term......Maybe, "revised reference" thinking.........and the advancement of knowledge is still apparent in the 6.5ers, the perfect example being the A-Team Turbo......You can actually call this stagnant?..... http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/sho...o-A-Year-Later....All 219 posts.......and what went on behind closed doors to even get to "A year later".......Stagnant?

I must Disagree, refreshing and optimistic is what drove that project, Kudos too Dennis (Slim Shady) , Tim (Turbine Doc) and all else involved for the man hours, documenting, manufacturing details, etc.....

Still don't forget the vendor/members, Leroy (PMDCABLE.COM) - Patrick (Walking J) - and now Bruce (PT Wiring) - ETC.

Include yourself in there also Buddy....(I'd like to see you become a vendor here)....you are the resident OBDI Tech, with your detailed info.

This forum is far from stagnant and/or stingy (Help a Brother Out)......We're like the "Red Cross, Salvation Army and the Boy Scouts, all rolled into one online community!

This site is full of the greatest people I've never met!
 
The 95 blew 3 PMD's(stanadiny's) in a row in as many months the FS PMD is on it now for 2 years,(50 k) no probs.Heatsink on the intake. Truck sleeps inside.
The 98 has the FS PMD also 2 years running(32 K), heatsink in the fender(see sig) Truck sleeps outside.

Mebby "luck" plays a factor ;)
 
I only meant that we cannot just use past testing and logic to shape all of our conclusions on this particular issue. There are other things 6.5 related going on. A larger turbo is a good thing to put on a large V8, I cannot believe that was unbelievable in the first place. However that is a good example of how stagnant the supposed experts at the time may have been, and it took another perspective bulling through it.
 
buddy said:
I only meant that we cannot just use past testing and logic to shape all of our conclusions on this particular issue. There are other things 6.5 related going on. A larger turbo is a good thing to put on a large V8, I cannot believe that was unbelievable in the first place. However that is a good example of how stagnant the supposed experts at the time may have been, and it took another perspective bulling through it.
Click to expand...
Also to expand on that the PMD's are different so the equation has changed. The Black Standyne is no longer available, The Flight Systems are showing many issues and prblems are starting to show for the grey which kinda is bringing us back to the drawing board . I would like to see more stats on the grey. Leroy says it's good. John Kennedy says it's good but Tim from Accurate who is a re-builder is having problems and now we have a few posts on dead ones so I think more time is needed to see. Even if going the Heath route which is guaranteed 7 years, if Bill is using the D Techs and they are junk then a 50 ft heatsink isn't gonna matter and all the warranty in the world aint worth squat when your broke down on the side of the road in butt**** egpyt with a 30ft camper on your back and then the good used spare you carry dies 20 mins later. I want to see a permanent solution and so far all I see is a costly conversion to a DB2 which is a PIA> I am actually going to look at a supposedly clean 93 EC this weekend. After driving Jared's truck(93) I am sold . It dirves better than any 6.5 I have ever owned or driven.
 
dazed said:
So maybe thats the solution ....no grounding like it is on the IP....so you saying heath has insulated it from the chassis....via some kind of spacers?
Click to expand...

I didn't get on yesterday my apology I've been busy of late I'll be posting pics of some what I think is cool stuff in the OT section I've been working on since Sept. that has limited my participation here.

Anyway the gnd path Bill uses when remote mounting is the same gnd path the driver uses when mounted on the IP, via the screw mated on the IP that Walt/SS Diesel has you remove when you install their setup.

With a Heath install you unplug the PMD from the IP harness, and plug in the Heath extension harness, after that one could mount their Heath remote anywhere one would want, so long as you had adequate airflow to keep the plate cool, I chose front of my bumper vs the skid plate, which on some 4x4 vehicles is not metal but composite plastic.

As a side note Bill said he ran it completely submerged in a bucket of water for a few months just to prove the water tight integrity of the setup.
 
buddy said:
No one is really disagreeing with them, but there are exceptions to every rule. People have theirs located like they recommend and they still fail. Independent research on a couple vehicles isn't really that thorough of a test, which is why there are exceptions to the rules. If that were the case then I could definitively say that the intake is the best place for a PMD since I have had it one there for 4 YEARS. But its an exception, I accept that.

If you don't question stagnant thinking, then you never advance your knowledge. There must be other failure modes unrelated to heat.
Click to expand...

There is also a phrase no need to reinvent a wheel, sometimes there is a diminished return on engineering effort, sometimes good enough is good enough, more to this problem indeed than heat, but from data collected thus far it appears that heat is the prime consideration, as evidenced by mfrs of replacements touting in their advertising the "new & improved" versions are designed with more heat tolerance.

Vibration probably not a big factor as it is going to vibe as much if not more-so on bottom of a plastic skid plate or the front of my bumper, and we do get freezing weather here and lots of wind chill to contend with hanging out front as well.

All good thoughts but I don't think without a LOT of engineering resources we will be able to 100% de-bug the problem, if aftermarket guys haven't drilled it down to 100% reliability I doubt we will, so it leaves us with a "comfort zone" of X% failure rate we can live with, as much as I believe in my Heath solution to carry me through the journey I still travel with a spare "just in case"
 
buddy said:
I worked on programs that depended heavily on heat cyclining to determine reliability, lifecycles in the field. I have been involved in several programs of user equipment that had to go through heat cycling. Sustained high temps were never a problem, like it is with processors overheating or something. The cycling we did always weeded out the good from the bad though. And we had a lot of bad to find the good circuit board designs, components and layouts.

We also did/still do shock and vibe testing. taking the PMD off the engine is probably good just to reduce vibration.
Click to expand...

Shock & vibe tests yup been there done that a time or 2 as well all turbines I work/ed on & controls supplied with the turbine if going on a USN ship have to meet shock & vibe requirements as well as EMP survivability tests, actually one of my coolest projects in past was installing a engine in a barge in a rock quarry instrumenting it with vibe sensors-strain gauges- high speed cameras, running it , then setting off explosive charges nearby at different depths to simulate a near miss bomb/torpedo/missle hit to make sure the engine would stay operational in those conditions.

Also went to sea on a new ship design where we did the same test on the whole ship that one was fun & scary at the same time. I meant here we are out in the "pond" 500 techs-engineers-crew hoping ship stays together/on it own power while some guys on other side of the test range try to blow up the ship more or less.

Purpose of real world survivability testing for new hardware going on ship is to find out in fact no matter how well individual componets are designed tested in a system as in a compete ship or turbine setup fails still happen, what has to be resolved at end of testing how bad is the failures consequence, and can some level of design change be made to either eliminate it, or survivable via redundant systems.
 
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