bison
Well-Known Member
Make sure you vidio tape and post it when you get to it :rof::rof:
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D-Tech,Dipaco, Flight Systems PMD failure-run away
- Thread starter bk95td
- Start date
Make sure you vidio tape and post it when you get to it :rof::rof:
Acesneights1
New Member
No Problem...:rof:
NVW
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I need some entertainment.
Brooklyn Tow
9 11 Never Forget
But why is Heath's track record with FAILED PMD/FSD's so good?........Hmmm?
Acesneights1
New Member
I think alot of failures are not reported. He warranties them quickly. I had one from him and it failed. He warrantied it for the new owner of the truck NQA. But it did fail.
Brooklyn Tow
9 11 Never Forget
Agreed, and I know your Heath unit failed, but I think when mounted properly and using quality material, his failure rate is low....Otherwise he'd stop warranty on them, 7 yrs is a long time, he must be doing something right.
JMO
2 Cents
Acesneights1
New Member
Yeah but that raises the question...Was the failure rate low because the Black Standyne's were better ?? That is what I'd like to get to the bottom of. Just because Standyne or Flight Systems says their new one is better don't mean squat...
Brooklyn Tow
9 11 Never Forget
I think that "Flat Chunk of aluminum" has a "Little" something to do with it?
Acesneights1
New Member
Dunno..Like I said mine failed and so have other peoples. I know I plugged in the spare one I had to see why my cruise wasn't working and that sucked got hot to the point where it could not be touched in just a few mins up my street not on a heatsink. Why the hell do they get so hot ? Those transistors look like something out of a 20 yr old TV. I cannot fathom that something better is not available...
Brooklyn Tow
9 11 Never Forget
In the archives of the "Page" and the "Place".....there is a lot of info from jd....Very technical mumbo jumbo.
Tim did very extensive research on PMD's also.....It's all there at the old sites.
Jus sayin
Tim did very extensive research on PMD's also.....It's all there at the old sites.
Jus sayin
buddy
Active Member
All of the research done has not really given everyone a better PMD.
I think Heath's success has nothing to with the metal but the mounting method. Its mounted with no pad, weatherized, and by design the heatsink gets grounded through 4 bolts I believe. It could be coincidence that they did that, trying to achieve thermal stability, but at the same time good electrical continuity to ground.
That and you dont hear about them like Aces said.
When people buy a PMD its likely because something particular about their truck killed it, so the cycle continues, but with Heath you have some consistency in mounting.
I think Heath's success has nothing to with the metal but the mounting method. Its mounted with no pad, weatherized, and by design the heatsink gets grounded through 4 bolts I believe. It could be coincidence that they did that, trying to achieve thermal stability, but at the same time good electrical continuity to ground.
That and you dont hear about them like Aces said.
When people buy a PMD its likely because something particular about their truck killed it, so the cycle continues, but with Heath you have some consistency in mounting.
Brooklyn Tow
9 11 Never Forget
I "think" Tim said, the heat-sinks were machined and the mounting surface is DEAD FLAT......and the size, and the material (Aluminum)......I said, "I Think"......Maybe it was a dream or something?
buddy
Active Member
It may be a real well made sink, but I doubt the faliures have anything to do with heat.
OK thanks, so that makes like 3 or 4 that I have heard of. Still a very good track record in my book. I've had one fail of all I have sold. Of the FS I've had atleast 10 fail in the last six months.
IMO a heat sink made originally as a heat sink will be made to tighter tolerances than aluminium sheet/plate stock, so maybe the need to machine them?
I don't inspect each kit I sell, but when I do think to look I can not see any air gap between PMD and sink w/o T-pad.
Agree with nobby about building a better mouse trap. To fix the problem we need outside the box thinking like buddy mentioned and AK about building it physically bigger if needed.
ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
makes me wonder if a diff material for the heatsink should be used. something that dissapates slower to reduce the expansion/contraction rates
ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
maybe that's what heath is achieveing without the fins
We did a lot of testing before coming up with a heat sink. (We had basically stock trucks, never towed anything heavy). We found that even with a heat sink only as big as the PMD itself it never got more than 10* over ambient. We use a larger sink in our kits and continue to monitor temps in real time even today years later and still see the same results.
buddy
Active Member
I monitored temperature of my IP and the heatsink right up against the PMD on the intake for a year.
The Heatsink surface up against the PMD was always about 120-130F, and the IP was about 150F usually with no PMD on it. I had the temp display in the truck running on battery so I could see it at all times pre and post engine operation.
The PMD transistors are a little hotter inside there, so it does just fine with that heat every day for years. I took one off the IP that had been there for 5 years and still worked too.
Thats why I don't think heat is a problem with any of the solutions, unless it isnt mounted right, then the PMD transistors may not be able to transfer as much heat.
The Heatsink surface up against the PMD was always about 120-130F, and the IP was about 150F usually with no PMD on it. I had the temp display in the truck running on battery so I could see it at all times pre and post engine operation.
The PMD transistors are a little hotter inside there, so it does just fine with that heat every day for years. I took one off the IP that had been there for 5 years and still worked too.
Thats why I don't think heat is a problem with any of the solutions, unless it isnt mounted right, then the PMD transistors may not be able to transfer as much heat.
Turbine Doc
Just Another Diesel Guy
FWIW the grounding of a Heath unit does not happen through the mounting bolts, gnd for it is strictly through the harness itself.
My 1st one started it's life 3 years mounted to the plastic license plate holder it's almost 7 years old before I relocated it inside my Buckstop bumper, 2nd one on burb going into year 5 also mounted on the plastic plate holder on front bumper.
Fail rate published or unpublished has been relatively low or we would hear of more of them.
Some may remember the RemarQ "improved & redesigned" units when they started failing like the flight systems ones apparently are starting to happen the word went out like wildfire, if the fail rate of the Heath units were high as some are indicating may be happening.
I'm confident the aggravation & cost would make it to mainstream on web "I paid big $ for this and it doesn't last any longer than the rest of em", the 6.5 crowd as frugal as it is would get that word out fast, I doubt a conscious effort to keep that information from getting out. Every forum that has a 6.5 discussion #1 topic is PMD related and if a bunch of bad ones from Heath were out there it would come out yet the opposite seems to be the norm, bad driver replaced with a Heath and have not had a problem in X years.
Apparently what he is doing is working, while some choose to not believe the test I ran years ago, and the data sampling where located & how long it lasted in that location, and what setup, those results did in fact show the Heath to have the best longevity of all tested then.
Heat is a factor whether it be the failure of components, or the cyclic extremes mechanically causing fails of connections/components, the problems of temperature have not escaped Stanadyne or Flight systems as both openly advertise their redesigns to be more heat tolerant, if heat wasn't a component of fails why make mention of it?
To the postulation of ones that are mounted on trucks that don't have much ambient condition changes lasting longer than those that do have many swings through the year ??? Possibly
But consider Ellensburg, Wa. where they are made have many ambient changes, as do places like Canada where they run successfully, in my own vehicle testing where temps in summer are very high and temps can get single digit and vehicle has been in upper US Great Lakes winters the Heath has survived all these years. Only fails on my truck I have ever had have been IP mounted, intake mounted, driver side fender mounted just aft of battery, since mounting out of bay on Heath remote 0 fails 2 vehicles is success in my book.
Why did Stanadyne wait so long to fess up???? Liability plain & simple, it would have cost GM & Stanadyne far too much to campaign replace all of them rather than via attrition when/if they happen. As it was also documented in survey I did that some drivers lasted life of the trucks at that time a couple in 300K mile range mounted on the IP and were still operational.
Will Heath's failure rate go up with the new drivers when sources of black ones dry up? Possibly ? Kind of neat though that his KISS setup works so well and defies logic & calculations of those that have tried to debunk it over the years.
Kenny my friend I don't know what dark cloud follows you or what you did to piss off the FSD gods or gearhead gods in general (you should have never gone to Lee's Auto Ranch) you haven't escaped the cloud since then maybe you need to shift to a bicycle
no then we'd be hearing about flat tires & where to get the best run-flat tires
Anybody know of a good exorcist to swing by Kenny's place, with a truckload of holy-water ?
My 1st one started it's life 3 years mounted to the plastic license plate holder it's almost 7 years old before I relocated it inside my Buckstop bumper, 2nd one on burb going into year 5 also mounted on the plastic plate holder on front bumper.
Fail rate published or unpublished has been relatively low or we would hear of more of them.
Some may remember the RemarQ "improved & redesigned" units when they started failing like the flight systems ones apparently are starting to happen the word went out like wildfire, if the fail rate of the Heath units were high as some are indicating may be happening.
I'm confident the aggravation & cost would make it to mainstream on web "I paid big $ for this and it doesn't last any longer than the rest of em", the 6.5 crowd as frugal as it is would get that word out fast, I doubt a conscious effort to keep that information from getting out. Every forum that has a 6.5 discussion #1 topic is PMD related and if a bunch of bad ones from Heath were out there it would come out yet the opposite seems to be the norm, bad driver replaced with a Heath and have not had a problem in X years.
Apparently what he is doing is working, while some choose to not believe the test I ran years ago, and the data sampling where located & how long it lasted in that location, and what setup, those results did in fact show the Heath to have the best longevity of all tested then.
Heat is a factor whether it be the failure of components, or the cyclic extremes mechanically causing fails of connections/components, the problems of temperature have not escaped Stanadyne or Flight systems as both openly advertise their redesigns to be more heat tolerant, if heat wasn't a component of fails why make mention of it?
To the postulation of ones that are mounted on trucks that don't have much ambient condition changes lasting longer than those that do have many swings through the year ??? Possibly
But consider Ellensburg, Wa. where they are made have many ambient changes, as do places like Canada where they run successfully, in my own vehicle testing where temps in summer are very high and temps can get single digit and vehicle has been in upper US Great Lakes winters the Heath has survived all these years. Only fails on my truck I have ever had have been IP mounted, intake mounted, driver side fender mounted just aft of battery, since mounting out of bay on Heath remote 0 fails 2 vehicles is success in my book.
Why did Stanadyne wait so long to fess up???? Liability plain & simple, it would have cost GM & Stanadyne far too much to campaign replace all of them rather than via attrition when/if they happen. As it was also documented in survey I did that some drivers lasted life of the trucks at that time a couple in 300K mile range mounted on the IP and were still operational.
Will Heath's failure rate go up with the new drivers when sources of black ones dry up? Possibly ? Kind of neat though that his KISS setup works so well and defies logic & calculations of those that have tried to debunk it over the years.
Kenny my friend I don't know what dark cloud follows you or what you did to piss off the FSD gods or gearhead gods in general (you should have never gone to Lee's Auto Ranch) you haven't escaped the cloud since then maybe you need to shift to a bicycle
no then we'd be hearing about flat tires & where to get the best run-flat tires Anybody know of a good exorcist to swing by Kenny's place, with a truckload of holy-water ?
dazed
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So maybe thats the solution ....no grounding like it is on the IP....so you saying heath has insulated it from the chassis....via some kind of spacers?