Blowing coolant out the overflow tank. Head gasket or block??

[simone0414]

Turfing my truck & spending even more $$$$ on another is most likely not in the cards. I can't really afford to fix what I've got so spending more on another probably ain't gonna happen either. But you think of all kinds of things laying awake at night. Your right every vehicle is noted for something it seems. I have a peice of crap Grand Am with the lovely 3.4l lower intake gasket leaking as well. Pick your poison I guess. My dad thinks I am crazy for even thinking about attempting this. He doesn't understand that I have a mechanic in my back pocket to help me out.

Anyway took rad cap off this morning & no pressure. Went for a drive, put her through her paces pretty good( didn't come on to her too much cause the spare I have on the back ain't much) & she did not blow off. No smoke & she works like a top. I'm letting her cool off now. That's what's bugging me the most I think is that she's running great. If she was bowing smoke or running like crap I could deal with tearing her apart a bit better. But looks can be deciving as well.

Got under the truck to see what fun I'm going to have seperating the manifolds from the exahust. Looks like there is enough room on the drivers side but the passenger side looks like a pretty tight spot. The bolts are very rusty. For me to do it with no heat I know I am going to have to twist & break them off or cut the heads off with mini zip tool or something. Twisting would make it easier on the passenger side but they are not nuts they are the hex head bolts so I'm not sure I can get enough lb's on them & may have to cut them off anyway. If I break or cut the bolts what's left in the maifolds should be able to be heated & taken out right? Even if they have to drilled & retapped that's possible isn't it?

I would love to be able to take turbo,manifold & head out all in one but I think that's too much to expect. Doesn't look like there will be enough room to unbolt everything. The exhaust turbo bolts look to be in much better shape & fairly easy to get at so hopefully I can soak the with something & get them out.

 

[JiFaire]

I really don't think you'll have an issue, Simone... if your patch starts to let go, give yourself a little lead time to make the repairs. If you don't have a heated place, you might want to consider how much fun this will be in the winter

Before you start taking anything apart, Make sure you soak the crap outta all the bolts with PBlaster for about a week... then start taking stuff off.

Drain the coolant, remove the upper coolant lines, heater lines, rad hose, etc.

Crawl underneath and remove the crossover.

Then take out the inner (passenger) fenderwell and you can reach the turbo and DP flange bolts easy. Get a metric stubby wrench set from Canuck Tire - it helps a lot - best $15 you ever spent.

Remove the DP, then remove the bottom 4 turbo bolts and unbolt the oil return tube. Go back up top and undo the plenum support and the hose clamps on the turbo outlet - take off the oil inlet line and lift the turbo out and put it on the workbench.

Take off the intake plenum, just to get it out of the way, cover the hole to keep crap out.

Remove sll the injector lines by undoing them at the injectors, then removing the clips, then undoing the lines at the IP.

Remove the upper rad shroud, serpentine belt, fan and clutch

Remove the AC pump and Alternator - put the alternator on the bench, just move the AC out of the way and secure it there.

Hoses, wires, grounds, all that stuff - anything in your way gets moved if possible. Make sure you baggie all your bolts and label everything... take pictures at each step so you can refer to them when reinstalling, if need be.

Then pull the exhaust manifolds, remove the intake bolts, and pull the heads.

Step-by-step...

ChrisK1500 could probably do this in 2 hrs, (LOL... just kidding!) but it would take me a day to get it all apart, time to get the heads inspected, then a day to make it run again. Leave lots of time, then you aren't disappointed. It will go together faster because you'll already know where everything goes.

Good luck, no matter which way you decide to go... you can always get help around here!

 

[dangerousdave]

Simone0414; Take a deep breath, relax, hug the wifey.
Then spray every bolt,nut,stud,etc with PB Blaster. It's your freind. I was a liquid wrench believer for decades, but I have seen the light! My '65 was seemingly rusted solid, and PB made it a breeze (sold it). In 23 years of engineering, these guys&gal are right; everything breaks eventually, Do what makes you sleep better. No sweat.:iagree:

 

[MRB 6.5TD]

x2 on don't be afraid to take it apart. Get a digital camera and snap a picture every step of the way even.

LABEL THE INJECTOR LINES TO THE CYLINDERS with masking tape (which are labeled on the intake)

In the mean time if you want to keep driving it. Its a good time to start saving 500-1000 cash ... More is better, but i know its not easy. You'll sleep better having that truck money, and if you don't ever use it, even better.

 

[simone0414]

Yep I going to stop friggin around & do it. Decided on the way home from taking the kids to the zoo. I figure if I can install a veg conversion then there's no reason why I can't do this as well. I bought some PB blaster & am going to start soaking every bolt & nut I see asap. I already have a stubby wrench set. Standard & metric came as a set.
Plan is to take the veg conversion stuff off tomorow. That's gotta come off first. Probably will take a hour or 2.

I'm on vacation for the next 2 & half weeks so no time better I guess. We are going away next weekend so I want to have the heads off & at the machine shop before I leave. Hopefully they will be ready or at least I will know if I need new ones by the time I get back.

I will keep you guys informed of my progress & what I find & I am sure I will have more questions along the way.

Wish me luck.:thumbsup:

 

[MRB 6.5TD]

Yep I going to stop friggin around & do it. Decided on the way home from taking the kids to the zoo. I figure if I can install a veg conversion then there's no reason why I can't do this as well. I bought some PB blaster & am going to start soaking every bolt & nut I see asap. I already have a stubby wrench set. Standard & metric came as a set.
Plan is to take the veg conversion stuff off tomorow. That's gotta come off first. Probably will take a hour or 2.

I'm on vacation for the next 2 & half weeks so no time better I guess. We are going away next weekend so I want to have the heads off & at the machine shop before I leave. Hopefully they will be ready or at least I will know if I need new ones by the time I get back.

I will keep you guys informed of my progress & what I find & I am sure I will have more questions along the way.

Wish me luck.:thumbsup:

Take lots of pictures for your sake and for ours too. Priceless if you forget soemthing, which can happen as time can span between unassembly and re-assembly. Label everything well. Some say plastic baggies individually wrapped.

Alternator, crank pulley, misc brackets, intake, etc...

 

[simone0414]

Well now I think I have everything I need. Was Talking to my neigbor & was telling him about my truck & he has a torch that he said I could use Didn't know he had one. Also got some impact sockets from him. I have never used a torch so he gave me a crash course. I would assume though there is a proper way to heat bolts up without damaging what they are holding together. Some education would be great on that.

 

[JiFaire]

If it's a nut on a stud (or bolt), just heat the outside of the nut fast so it gets red, then gab a socket and twist it out. Don't keep heating it - if the stud gets red too, you'll twist it off. The trick is to have the NUT hot and the stud NOT so hot.

If it's a bolt in a head, then don't heat the bolt... the only way to use heat in that circumstance is to heat the head around the bolt, without heating up the bolt (or the same thing happens... it will get soft and twist off)

I use a hot wrench to the nuts off exhaust studs all the time... heat the nut, then quickly crank it off. If you have to do it again, get the water hose and cool everything off - so you can start over.

Pulling studs out of manifolds, for instance, you can heat up the manifold all red, keeping away from the stud. Then twist the stud out. The trick is to make something expand more than something else.

I still like lots of PBlaster best.

 

[chrisk1500]

Your symptoms sound identical to what I had....my issue was just a blown gasket and not a cracked head....

This is only a one day job if you have the parts ready to go....been there done that a couple of times....here it goes....

1. Get a bunch of old margarine/yogurt containers with lids - you will use these to put bolts into - label one for the intake bolts, one for the AC bracket, etc.

2. Make sure you have a selection of 19 mm, 15 mm, 3/4 inch, and 5/16 wrenches (among others of course), also make sure you have a good magnet on hand - I use a cattle magnet taped onto a piece of 3/8" doweling - this saves you from the 'oh shit' moments when you drop a bolt into the undercarriage abyss....

3. Drain the cooling system

4. Pull off the upper intake plenum - put the bolts into a labeled container

5. Disconnect the upper coolant tube

6. Pull off the fan shroud - this gives you room to work - put the bolts *blah* *blah*

7. Disconnect the batteries

8. Pull off the accessories (A/C, alternator)

9. Pull off the accessory brackets - PUT THE BOLTS INTO SEPERATE CONTAINERS....been down this road too many times....

10. Take off the turbo

11. Take out the exhaust manifold bolts - YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE OFF THE CROSSOVER PIPE - DO NOT EVEN CRAWL UNDER THERE!!!!! (and guys laugh at me for getting things done in a hurry - most of these guys do too much work on piddly jobs....I need my time for other things...)

12. Take off the lower intake manifold

13. Take off the injection lines. Start by taking them all off of the injectors and then off of the pump starting and the top and working your way around.

14. unplug the glows

15. take off the valve covers

16. Take out the rocker arm assemblies and remove the pushrods - they need to go back to the same place in the same orientation afterwards - take a box and punch holes in it - stab the rods into the box in the same vertical orientation that they are in in the truck now - one end is hardened

17. Take out the head bolts

18. Give yourself a hernia pulling the heads off the block

19. Clean up all mating surfaces with a brass brush after the main grunge is removed with a scraper (sharp chisel)

20. Install is the reverse....

****I recall there being some brackets attached to the firewall side of the back of the heads that gave me grief the last time I did this...gotta go by 'feel' on those bolts****

I'm sure I forgot a few steps, but this should get you started. It is a dead simple job, it just takes time....


Make sure you give yourself plenty of time to make mistakes...in fact, buy two sets of headgaskets because you are going to wreck the first set when the head slips out of your greasy hands and takes a chunk out of it...

 

[turbovanman]

This is only a one day job if you have the parts ready to go....been there done that a couple of times....here it goes....

.

Please stop saying crap like this, for a newbie or a guy/girl with limited knowledge, it is NOT a one day job. All this does is make him mess up as crap, I've been on it 2, 3, 4, 5 days and its still not done.

 

[chrisk1500]

It's not crap....it's the truth....

I don't know what you guys are doing when you are pulling wrenches, but if you have everything ready to go and you don't fiddle around with useless things like pulling turbos to do injectors, or pulling off rusty crusted crossover pipes when you don't need to, the jobs go a lot quicker....

You will also notice that I told him to give himself lots of time for mistakes....

 

[Acesneights1]

I can do it in a day also .

 

[simone0414]

I will be in no hurry. Obiviously I want to do it as fast as possible but whatever it takes is what it takes. I expect it to take 2 days to take apart. Nothing ever comes apart as it should. I am expecting problems. Another day to put it back together. Don't forget I have a veggi conversion to take off & put back on. That's the easy part though. I designed & installed that myself so I know where everything goes.

Chrisk 1500; I assume what you are saying is that once the manifolds are seperated from the heads they can be moved out of the way enough without seperating them from the exahust to get at the heads. Am I right on that?

 

[turbovanman]

It's not crap....it's the truth....

I don't know what you guys are doing when you are pulling wrenches, but if you have everything ready to go and you don't fiddle around with useless things like pulling turbos to do injectors, or pulling off rusty crusted crossover pipes when you don't need to, the jobs go a lot quicker....

You will also notice that I told him to give himself lots of time for mistakes....

Its not true. For some one who's never done it or never really touched an engine, its at least 2-3 days plus, plus, plus.

Also, if you can buy/rent an air compressor and air tools, it will make the job a 1000 times faster and easier, :thumbsup:

 

[JiFaire]

Turbo, I gotta tell ya, for a rookie with no experience but basic wrenching, this is a 1 day job off, and a 1-day job on. A day in this case is anywhere from 5-8 hrs.

Chris can do injectors in under 2 hrs... so yeah, I figure his on and off days are probably 3-4 hrs, where mine would be 5-6 hrs, 'cause I stop for beer breaks.

Having a good plan and sticking to it gets this job done fairly quick.

However, your point is very well taken... this isn't something you want to rush or set time limits on, Simone. It takes as long as it takes... quality is Job #1 on a job like this, because you SURE don't want to do it over!

Jim

 

[turbovanman]

Turbo, I gotta tell ya, for a rookie with no experience but basic wrenching, this is a 1 day job off, and a 1-day job on. A day in this case is anywhere from 5-8 hrs.

Chris can do injectors in under 2 hrs... so yeah, I figure his on and off days are probably 3-4 hrs, where mine would be 5-6 hrs, 'cause I stop for beer breaks.

Having a good plan and sticking to it gets this job done fairly quick.

However, your point is very well taken... this isn't something you want to rush or set time limits on, Simone. It takes as long as it takes... quality is Job #1 on a job like this, because you SURE don't want to do it over!

Jim

Exactly, 2 days minimum, :thumbsup:

The point I am making is basically what you said, it takes what it takes, no need to pressure him by saying its a 1 day job, he's already scared,

 

[Acesneights1]

I have a full shop w/ airtools etc plus I have done them before on 6.2s a few times. That is how I can do it fast. Same goes for Chris. we are not saying "It has to be done in a day" we are saying "It is possible."

 

[Acesneights1]

If you don't finish it in one day you will get toruted by all of us and made fun of, cursed by evil withccraft, Pounded in the butt by Pigmes and castout...

J/K
Seriuosly though take as much time as you need. It's not a race. We are all here to help like that Verizon commercial. We're all 6.5 junkies and someone is pretty always online so you won't have to wait long at all for a response if you get stuck.

 

[JiFaire]

Nah, no pressure on Simone, and he isn't scared, he's just facing the unknown for the first time... Chris' point is that it really isn't a hard job... once you've done it once it's something you could do in a day, no problem, if all you had to do was the head gasket.

Simone still has to get the heads checked unless it's really obvious that it's just a gasket, so it's at least 2 short days of remove/install, regardless.

And I WOULD get the heads checked - no point in doing this twice. I did that with my Daytona and it just rotted my socks.

After doing this once, he'll be a pro.

 

[chrisk1500]

Thanks Jim and Kenny - you get what I say......

It is a one day job when everything goes according to plan, the parts are all sitting in front of you, and you don't have any brain farts....

I have had oil changes that should take me 10 minutes last me several hours when filters wouldn't budge or some bonehead stripped the pan bolt....it is all relative...

Simone - yes, once you take out all of the exhaust manifold bolts, the two manifolds will drop down enough for the heads to be removed without taking the crossover off....they stay together like a horseshoe...