The "restification" of a 98 6.5 TD...

[great white]

Well, I think I've almost made a final decision:

The 6.5 is old and has a mind boggling amount of blowby.

The options I was considering were a P400 or an LB7.

Well, the 6.5 is pretty limited without a large infusion of cash, even if it is a P400 block. So, the current 599 block will solider on until it finally gives it up the ghost. Then, an LB7/Allison/push button transfer case will find a new home in the dependable ol' GMT 400 chassis.

An LB7 just opens up far too many doors (and cheaply compared to a 6.5) towards what I want to do with the truck. Not to mention, the additional aftermarket support.

The fact that I already have the hardware sitting on the shelf for real time tuning with EFILive and Tunercat II is just gravy.

The only way the truck will get another 6.5 is if the "good ol' Detroit" drops it's gut on the highway in the middle of a cross continental trip and I'm stuck with a rebuilt to get where I'm going. If that happens, it may get a new Optimizer just out of necessity.....but it will eventually get a "Max.

A 6BT Cummins was an option just for availability, cost and ease of swap, but the bone crushing weight of that engine over an IFS front suspension is just too much. I really don't want to be changing out 500 dollar unitized bearings every 12 months.....

 

[tightgroup]

GW,

If I may offer some words. I have done a few projects in rebuilding older Landrovers. Tried once a simple conversion, nothing radical dropping a Ford 6 in a series 3. Well the issues that arose took me by surprise.

First the fitament of the block with its new tranny and tcase , you will need to consider some body modifications , new brackets , swapping things around in the engine compartment, possible clearance for the front diff, and finally doing some body mods to the interior to accomodate the shifters .

The aligment of the powertrain with existing diffs, in relationship to the tcase, not even sure if the allison will fit correctly in the well....

Do you want to maintain the current CG which is quite good? Do you need to upgrade diffs and axles? Do you need better braking ? Do you need to mod for oil cooler, AC condensors, tranny cooler? Is current cooling components up to par to cool the new power plant.


GW all I am trying to say is that when doing a conversion, you might need to re engineer certain aspects. and seeing the quality of work you produce you will not be happy by just making it fit. I am not judging your choice of components, but the time and effort required to do a good job in integrating all of the new stuff into the existing platform.

IMHO and with little exp in the GMT 400 platform, I would suggest a closer look at the P400 with some good performance upgrades which the new block will be able to handle could actually meet your requirements. I think when you calculate all the dollars and time involved you might find the p400 a better bang for the buck.. Again this is based on my exp with mods on an other brand all together, but be careful !

 

[Woody35]

Gw is a good fabricater by the looks of some of his projects so i bet with a little help he could the the dmax swap with very little issues

 

[tightgroup]

Gw is a good fabricater by the looks of some of his projects so i bet with a little help he could the the dmax swap with very little issues

I am not putting GW fabricator's skill in doubt. What I am trying to express via some examples is that a conversion is often more costly because of hidden issues then a straight replacement. Dollar for dollar , because it always comes to dollars, the P400 could be a very viable option, given that it can take a performance tune without any issues.

 

[great white]

'Max in a gmt 400 chassis has been done a couple times, a couple ways:

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?10142-95-SUBURBAN-to-a-01-DURAMAX-ALLISON

http://www.thedieselpage.com/duramaxconversions.htm

http://www.thedieselpage.com/features/project2-16.htm

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=27851
(I like his front bumper cutout!)

I'm not exactly blazing new trails, but it's going to be a bit of a challange. Mostly in the electronics dept. Nothing I can't sort out, just a PITA.

A P400 is going to cost me around 10,000 once it's bought/shipped/installed. I can pick up a rotted out D'max truck, scarf the entire drivetrain/management system/cluster/column and install it in my truck for about the same cost. All of it factory parts (well, maybe a couple custom bits). Basically, the entire engine compartment will be LB7.

Just doesn't seem to make any sense to stick with teh 6.5 when I can have a 'Max for the same price.

I should have a couple years to plan it out, gather funds and look for a complete donor truck. Unless the 6.5 unexpectedly drops dead on me.....

On another note:

Oil change day today. The 6.5 gets a fresh sump of Rotella and a shiny new Purolator.....

 

[great white]

Bloody abs light is on again:

:mad2:

Gonna have to redo those damned wires again......

 

[Matt Bachand]

Bloody abs light is on again:

:mad2:

Gonna have to redo those damned wires again......

Just unplug the unit. It sucks and its dangerous if you have a brake line fail in the rear the abs will cause ZERO brakes and you'll crash. Been there, did that, slammed my buddies F-550 box truck doing about 30mph. Never again.

 

[great white]

Thanks, but I think I'll fix it.

 

[GM Guy]

I think it wouldnt look good if one got into a wreck and the isurance adjuster notices it unhooked. put a blown fuse it, no way that can be proved to been blown with your knowledge.

Me personally? I like these abs systems, and prefer to use them.

 

[nobby]

Just unplug the unit. It sucks and its dangerous if you have a brake line fail in the rear the abs will cause ZERO brakes and you'll crash. Been there, did that, slammed my buddies F-550 box truck doing about 30mph. Never again.

When my rear line failed I still had the front brakes as pathetic as it was with only half the braking effect and no sign of the ABS playing funny buggers and I was going down a slope braking as hard as I could with just the fronts. So in my case I would not say zero.

Matt just curious did you experience/feel then the ABS come on in your rear line failure?

Cheers
Nobby

 

[Matt Bachand]

When my rear line failed I still had the front brakes as pathetic as it was with only half the braking effect and no sign of the ABS playing funny buggers and I was going down a slope braking as hard as I could with just the fronts. So in my case I would not say zero.

Matt just curious did you experience/feel then the ABS come on in your rear line failure?

Cheers
Nobby

Was your ABS engaging?? I had the half ass horrible pedal until the the ABS tried to do its pulsating then the pedal would go the rest of the way down to the floorboard. The first time this happened it was raining and I slammed my buddy.

I was still able to drive it home (Stout Trucks!!!) as it did no radiator or other fluid damage, but I almost crashed again doing a 3 point turn doing 5 mph when the ABS engaged again the pedal went from half/ass to ZERO.

I'm not sure if a blown fuse keeps the ABS light on, removing the wires from the abs module eliminates the ABS light from being on, as well as the ABS system.

If I got in another accident, I'd just pop the hood and plug stuff in before the adjuster looked at it.

Don't want to Hijack GW's thread anymore, he can get finicky about that stuff J/K BJ!

Motor on fellas!

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

ABS saved my a$$ the other day.

Jerk in front of me stopped dead.....started to slide on a snow covered NY street, while STANDING on brake (Still sliding) but, the ABS kicked in and allowed my front brakes to do the ABS thing, thus enabling me to steer.

Without the ABS I would have been locked up and steering would have been non-existant.....I would have hit the jerk for sure if it wasn't for the ABS.

 

[nobby]

Matt,
My ABS did not come on but I was in the dry. Nor did I feel it come on when carefully driving off the highway to a safe place for a tow. My guess is ABS or not you probably would of still had the collision. You obviously as one does in a lost line situation jump on the pedal hard that in the wet you would of locked up and the front wheels slide without the ABS anyways.

Seems as though there are 2 schools on ABS, I like mine it behaves just how I want it to. Just when I feel it come on is when I am about to almost lift the pedal a bit anyways. I often wonder how much anti ABS philosophy is actually based on a faulty system rather than just not liking how it works.

Cheers
Nobby

 

[great white]

Sure enough, the passenger ABS sensor wire had come apart at my solder joint.

Mostly my fault, I cut corners on the soldering job trying to get it back together on a deadline and it bit me in the butt.

I should have known better.

Properly done and dual wall heat shrinked now.

No ABS light anymore.



Now to spend the rest of the day fixing up a few annoying little things (1 reverse light burnt out, etc) and start work on my fiberglass water injection tanks....

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

Matt,
My ABS did not come on but I was in the dry. Nor did I feel it come on when carefully driving off the highway to a safe place for a tow. My guess is ABS or not you probably would of still had the collision. You obviously as one does in a lost line situation jump on the pedal hard that in the wet you would of locked up and the front wheels slide without the ABS anyways.

Seems as though there are 2 schools on ABS, I like mine it behaves just how I want it to. Just when I feel it come on is when I am about to almost lift the pedal a bit anyways. I often wonder how much anti ABS philosophy is actually based on a faulty system rather than just not liking how it works.


Cheers
Nobby

Just curious do you think your brain to foot can compete with the ABS in ANTI-Lockup, as far as steering is concerned?.....I was taught to drive in an OLD rambler W/ 3 on the tree, and was told that, "As much as you don't want too you HAVE too let off the brake to "Try" to steer out of a collision".......I dont think those 63 ramblers had ABS, did they?:skep::hihi:

ABS=Good, in my book anyway........But there are times when, "Locking them up," would come in handy.

 

[great white]

Just curious do you think your brain to foot can compete with the ABS in ANTI-Lockup, as far as steering is concerned?.....I was taught to drive in an OLD rambler W/ 3 on the tree, and was told that, "As much as you don't want too you HAVE too let off the brake to "Try" to steer out of a collision".......I dont think those 63 ramblers had ABS, did they?:skep::hihi:

ABS=Good, in my book anyway........But there are times when, "Locking them up," would come in handy.

In a word:

No.

Abs cycles the brakes far faster than any human can. It keeps the tire at the verge of lockup in a way you couldn't. The teetering edge of lockup is where you achieve maximum braking.

You can threshold brake very well with an ABS system, but once you're into the brake pedal pulsing, you (the "average" driver) need to just keep the pressure on and let the ABS do it's thing.

Personally, I never get into the ABS on anything besides ice covered roads. Dry, wet, or even snow covered; no problems, my ABS system is just along for the ride.

I can usually "feel" the edge of braking authority, just before the ABS starts it's thing.

Which is not to say I won't force the system to work once a month or so (snow or dirt parking lot away from everything), just to keep the system components from "sticking up" from lack of use.

However, I have gotten into ABS on winter icy roads. Note I said icy, not snow covered. At that point, ABS is trying to help me out as the road surface doesn't give me the feedback I need.

The only time "locking up" the tires would be beneficial is if there's no need to steer at all (IE: off road) and the surface beneath you can "pile up" in front of the tires or they will sink into it (IE: deep snow, mud, etc). That's why vehicles used to disable ABS in 4 Lo, and sometimes 4 Hi. Now, that's for older ABS systems; I think newer vehicles don't disable ABS in 4x4 anymore due to the improved action of modern ABS.

The only place ABS is a problem is on slick ice. It works so good at preventing lockup, you get essentially no braking at all. Of course, if you're on slick ice, you're pretty much "f'd" anyways.

Threshold braking is a lost art for most drivers. In these cases, ABS makes the roads much safer to be on (for the rest of us on the road that is!)

If you're one of these (and almost everybody is now), keep your ABS and brakes up to snuff and trust the system.



Oh, one more thing for those that don't know yet:

"Pumping" brakes is never a good thing. All it does is increase your braking distance. ABS works pumping the brakes because it cycles extremely fast, faster than a foot ever could. You need to let off the brakes until the tire starts rolling and hold it right there after you "lock 'em up". This is why ABS works so well, very few drivers have the nessesary skils to actually threshold brake correctly...

 

[ak diesel driver]

most people don't drive on ice covered roads 4-5 months of the year

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

Agreed and agreed.......and don't forget threshold braking while, "suddenly", under pressure....not to hit the jerk that stopped dead in moving traffic for NO apparant reason.

ABS will always get my vote.

 

[Acesneights1]

I don't like the ABS. Drove tractor trailers my whole life in really bad weather. Stab braking is how I learned. Had too many GM's that the ABS screwed up or something and All I had was a pulsing pedal and no brakes sailing towards danger. Years ago Ford tried them on the L8000s. You have not lived until you sail through an intersection with full air pressure and no brakes. JMHO. Every GM I disconnected them on stopped better. In thoery out of the showroom I guess there OK but in New england where road salt, dirt brake dust and everything else gets into it..not so good. You can steer around an accident 90% of the time before you can stop for it....First thing a CDL driver learns. IMHO people have become wayy too lazy and too reliant on machines to think and do for them...Just sayin...

 

[Grendahl]

I've heard of another situation where ABS doesn't work well. Around here there are quite a few places where due to the freezing and thawing cycles the pavement can be broken up into a minefield of small potholes. If you drive across these areas at any speed your tires are only touching the ground a fraction of the time. If you have to brake in one of these areas, the ABS system can't keep up with the rapid and frequent changes in available traction, and you can thus have effectivley no brakes even if the road is done dry.