ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
mech brake control? never been around that brake controller before
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The "restification" of a 98 6.5 TD...
- Thread starter great white
- Start date
great white
Well-Known Member
Well, the fuel system is in and running!
What a bear.
FTB ver 2.0, the Racor filter and the raptor 100 lift pump and 1/2" push lok line from tank to filer manager are all working ticky boo, but it wasn't without troubles and I've still got some wiring and line clamps to clean up.
Doing it all at once made for a fair bit of work and to top it all off once the truck was back together, it wouldn't start!
:mad2:
Crap, now I've got a huge truck hanging out the door of the garage and it's getting cold and very dark. I've got to get this thing back out int he driveway or I have to leave the garage open overnight.
I don't live in a bad area or anything, but I've got a lot of expensive tools in the garage that I would like to keep!
So, time to start trouble shooting.
I squirt a little release-all (like wd40) into the intake and she stutters.
Yup, fuel related. Makes sense as that's what I've been friggin' with all day.
Pre filter is primed, vent on the new FM filter shows no air.
So I pop off the intake again and pull the new ftb line. Dry as a bone. I crank the lift pump and prime the line.
Put it all back together and:
No dice, cranks but no start. Not even a stumble.
Check my new fuel gauge. Whoa, 13 psi at idle. Needs adjusting, but it's working.
So I crack an injector. Crank it and no fuel first, but then spurts.
Ah ha! She's just got a big snoot full of air. Seems logical, I just ripped the whole fuel system out and replaced it. Bleed it all out and she should be good to go.
So I crack the next injector. Same thing, Nothing then a few spurts.
I crack the third injector and crank it.
Nothing.
Nothing at all.
What?
Put the line back on and the truck still won't start, just cranks with the occasional stutter.
WTF?
Alright, let's think for a second. I go back over everything I touched. Nothing out of place. It's all tight and connected.
Wait, I had the fuel shut off solenoid out for clearance when doing the FTB install on the injector pump.
All I did was screw it out and back in, but I also now have no fuel delivery. So it seems to make sense.
I pull the pump I got from Simon last year off the shelf and spin the fuel valve off. Swap it out on the truck and:
Wouldn't you know it? She fires up and settles into her usual happy clack-clack-clack.
(Thanks Simon, you saved my butt)
The idle quality on the truck is super smooth now with that 13 psi. No shake or shimmy, well hardly none. She sounds great, just a nice rumble, smooth and steady.
My factory lift pump was working fine, and she ran smooth and strong.
Or so I thought.
First impressions of the Raptor 100 and FB ver 2.0 are very favorable idling here in the garage.
I'll try and get some pics up for the curious once it's all tidied up.
Can't wait to finish and take her out for a shake down run.
I think my first drive will be to the parts store to buy a new fuel shut off solenoid.....
What a bear.
FTB ver 2.0, the Racor filter and the raptor 100 lift pump and 1/2" push lok line from tank to filer manager are all working ticky boo, but it wasn't without troubles and I've still got some wiring and line clamps to clean up.
Doing it all at once made for a fair bit of work and to top it all off once the truck was back together, it wouldn't start!
:mad2:
Crap, now I've got a huge truck hanging out the door of the garage and it's getting cold and very dark. I've got to get this thing back out int he driveway or I have to leave the garage open overnight.
I don't live in a bad area or anything, but I've got a lot of expensive tools in the garage that I would like to keep!
So, time to start trouble shooting.
I squirt a little release-all (like wd40) into the intake and she stutters.
Yup, fuel related. Makes sense as that's what I've been friggin' with all day.
Pre filter is primed, vent on the new FM filter shows no air.
So I pop off the intake again and pull the new ftb line. Dry as a bone. I crank the lift pump and prime the line.
Put it all back together and:
No dice, cranks but no start. Not even a stumble.
Check my new fuel gauge. Whoa, 13 psi at idle. Needs adjusting, but it's working.
So I crack an injector. Crank it and no fuel first, but then spurts.
Ah ha! She's just got a big snoot full of air. Seems logical, I just ripped the whole fuel system out and replaced it. Bleed it all out and she should be good to go.
So I crack the next injector. Same thing, Nothing then a few spurts.
I crack the third injector and crank it.
Nothing.
Nothing at all.
What?
Put the line back on and the truck still won't start, just cranks with the occasional stutter.
WTF?
Alright, let's think for a second. I go back over everything I touched. Nothing out of place. It's all tight and connected.
Wait, I had the fuel shut off solenoid out for clearance when doing the FTB install on the injector pump.
All I did was screw it out and back in, but I also now have no fuel delivery. So it seems to make sense.
I pull the pump I got from Simon last year off the shelf and spin the fuel valve off. Swap it out on the truck and:
Wouldn't you know it? She fires up and settles into her usual happy clack-clack-clack.
(Thanks Simon, you saved my butt)
The idle quality on the truck is super smooth now with that 13 psi. No shake or shimmy, well hardly none. She sounds great, just a nice rumble, smooth and steady.
My factory lift pump was working fine, and she ran smooth and strong.
Or so I thought.
First impressions of the Raptor 100 and FB ver 2.0 are very favorable idling here in the garage.
I'll try and get some pics up for the curious once it's all tidied up.
Can't wait to finish and take her out for a shake down run.
I think my first drive will be to the parts store to buy a new fuel shut off solenoid.....
Last edited:
great white
Well-Known Member
You got it.
the brake lever is towards the back of the unit and where I have it installed you can't get to it.
The cable and handle will relocate the lever control to somewhere I can get to it.
great white
Well-Known Member
Cleaned up the wiring today.
I snipped the weather pak connector off the pump and ran the wires up to the engine bay.
I used the signal from the PCM and oil press switch to the original lift pump to trigger a relay to power the Raptor pump.
I wanted to make sure the Raptor got a good feed of voltage and the wiring I used is a bigger gauge than the mamby pamby stock wiring.
It also takes the load off the oil press switch. While the lift pump is powered by the PCM through a relay, the wiring diagram indicates that the Oil press switch is still a direct feed when made.
Now the Raptor behaves just like the stock pump. Runs when the key is on, shuts off if the key is one too long without start and runs a few seconds after shutdown to make sure the line is pressurized for the next start.
Then it was split loom and routing for all the wiring. Nice, neat and clean.
Once it was all up and running, I dialed back the Raptor to 11 psu at idle. Rock solid 11 psi. Doesn't even flutter on a good blip of throttle.
Finally, pulled out the old lift pump and lines.
Tomorrow, I pick up the new ESO solenoid and some hose mounting clamps to make the lines all neat and tidy too.
Anyone interested in pics?
I snipped the weather pak connector off the pump and ran the wires up to the engine bay.
I used the signal from the PCM and oil press switch to the original lift pump to trigger a relay to power the Raptor pump.
I wanted to make sure the Raptor got a good feed of voltage and the wiring I used is a bigger gauge than the mamby pamby stock wiring.
It also takes the load off the oil press switch. While the lift pump is powered by the PCM through a relay, the wiring diagram indicates that the Oil press switch is still a direct feed when made.
Now the Raptor behaves just like the stock pump. Runs when the key is on, shuts off if the key is one too long without start and runs a few seconds after shutdown to make sure the line is pressurized for the next start.
Then it was split loom and routing for all the wiring. Nice, neat and clean.
Once it was all up and running, I dialed back the Raptor to 11 psu at idle. Rock solid 11 psi. Doesn't even flutter on a good blip of throttle.
Finally, pulled out the old lift pump and lines.
Tomorrow, I pick up the new ESO solenoid and some hose mounting clamps to make the lines all neat and tidy too.
Anyone interested in pics?
ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
BUT OF COURSE!!
great white
Well-Known Member
Not a lot to look at, not a lot of fancy stuff or "bling bling", just good ol' down to business hard workin' stuff.
But here's some pics none-the-less!
Eeewww:
Ahhh:
Splicing in the old pump connector:
Starting at the back and working our way forward:
You can see the last remaining original part of the fuel feed system at the compression fitting. I still have to make a new 1/2" pickup for the tank and route the return fuel through the head for fuel heating, but that's for another day:
Dang that's a nice filter unit, worth every penny! Green tape is holding the wiring for the WIF sensor, to be wired up tomorrow.
Snaking down behind the tank to tuck safely into the frame rails;
Working our way forward:
Nice pic of the clamps I used:
The serious business part:
moving forward again:
Making the turn into the engine bay:
Looking back:
up past the firewall:
Routing it through the engine bay:
(Nice pics of the engine mounted fuel gauge)
And finally back into the filter manager new 1/2" push lok connection:
Working on the wiring:
Wiring finished and ready to run:
(the messy looking stuff is the factory wiring, LOL!)
The hose is carefully routed everywhere, there is no touching or rubbing although it may look that way in some pics. There's a minimum of 1 inch clearance all around the line except where in is clamped solid.
The clamps have standoffs where required.
I was lucky in that everywhere I needed a clamp there were factory 1/4" holes (size of the bolts the clamps use) already in the frame so no drilling required on the frame. Always a good thing!
I only had to drill one hole in the drivers inner fender to mount one clamp and standoff where it turns around the firewall. Just an inner fender, no stress there.
All the wiring in split loomed and either clamped, zip tied or carefully routed out of the way.
The truck responds much nicer of the road. It drives smooth and stable (well, as stable as a diesel can). The quality of the engine sound is just "better" if that makes any sense. Throttle respond is a touch "livelier" also. I would bet the constant 8-10 psi is in no small part responsible for that.
All in all, a modification well worth the effort!
Even if it was a touch expensive....around 600-700 bucks "all in".
Should be good for a few thou miles, right?
But here's some pics none-the-less!
Eeewww:
Ahhh:
Splicing in the old pump connector:
Starting at the back and working our way forward:
You can see the last remaining original part of the fuel feed system at the compression fitting. I still have to make a new 1/2" pickup for the tank and route the return fuel through the head for fuel heating, but that's for another day:
Dang that's a nice filter unit, worth every penny! Green tape is holding the wiring for the WIF sensor, to be wired up tomorrow.
Snaking down behind the tank to tuck safely into the frame rails;
Working our way forward:
Nice pic of the clamps I used:
The serious business part:
moving forward again:
Making the turn into the engine bay:
Looking back:
up past the firewall:
Routing it through the engine bay:
(Nice pics of the engine mounted fuel gauge)
And finally back into the filter manager new 1/2" push lok connection:
Working on the wiring:
Wiring finished and ready to run:
(the messy looking stuff is the factory wiring, LOL!)
The hose is carefully routed everywhere, there is no touching or rubbing although it may look that way in some pics. There's a minimum of 1 inch clearance all around the line except where in is clamped solid.
The clamps have standoffs where required.
I was lucky in that everywhere I needed a clamp there were factory 1/4" holes (size of the bolts the clamps use) already in the frame so no drilling required on the frame. Always a good thing!
I only had to drill one hole in the drivers inner fender to mount one clamp and standoff where it turns around the firewall. Just an inner fender, no stress there.
All the wiring in split loomed and either clamped, zip tied or carefully routed out of the way.
The truck responds much nicer of the road. It drives smooth and stable (well, as stable as a diesel can). The quality of the engine sound is just "better" if that makes any sense. Throttle respond is a touch "livelier" also. I would bet the constant 8-10 psi is in no small part responsible for that.
All in all, a modification well worth the effort!
Even if it was a touch expensive....around 600-700 bucks "all in".
Should be good for a few thou miles, right?
Last edited:
Turbine Doc
Just Another Diesel Guy
Good job, when I came up with the FTB idea a few years back at Diesel Page then Place a number of folks scoffed at the idea.
To me it just made sense climbing a hill with a load, push the go pedal all way to floor, and vehicle does not speed up, EGT does not go up, boost holding at 10 psi and yet I'm just at 2700 rpm, should be more go left in the engine or I should see temps & parameters climbing to meet the demand; so I installed a test gauge and lo & behold I'm seeing 0 psi at IP inlet with a reasonably new lift pump, did the FTB and I got the lost performance back and able to sustain lift pressure for most runs or kick in the parallel lift and maintain for any run.
Well I'm glad to see another satisfied 6.5er that benefited from the concept, did you also open the 4 holes in the inlet fitting I assume you did since you took off the fuel shutdown solenoid.
To me it just made sense climbing a hill with a load, push the go pedal all way to floor, and vehicle does not speed up, EGT does not go up, boost holding at 10 psi and yet I'm just at 2700 rpm, should be more go left in the engine or I should see temps & parameters climbing to meet the demand; so I installed a test gauge and lo & behold I'm seeing 0 psi at IP inlet with a reasonably new lift pump, did the FTB and I got the lost performance back and able to sustain lift pressure for most runs or kick in the parallel lift and maintain for any run.
Well I'm glad to see another satisfied 6.5er that benefited from the concept, did you also open the 4 holes in the inlet fitting I assume you did since you took off the fuel shutdown solenoid.
Last edited:
great white
Well-Known Member
Nope, didn't feel the need to go in that deep.
I just wanted sure and steady pressure and GPH available to the injection pump.
I think I got it!
Turbine Doc
Just Another Diesel Guy
Nope, didn't feel the need to go in that deep.
I just wanted sure and steady pressure and GPH available to the injection pump.
I think I got it!
One day when you have time take a look I opened mine and it does better opened up
great white
Well-Known Member
Well, I'm now running the older model of ESO valves P/N 31146 since myine crapped out after pulling it out for my fuel system adventure.
It works, but for how long who knows? So I ordered a new one.
120 bucks at the local jobbber :sneaky:
Dropped in today to pick it up and sure enough, wrong part. Never seen it before in my life. Some kind of electrical switch with a rubberized primer bulb on the end of it.
We went into the parts computer and sure enough that's what was list for fuel shutoff on a 6.5 TD.
So, off to the dealer, against my better judgment.
260 bucks!
Off to eBay.
NIB Stanadyne ESO, P/N 3072, 85 bucks shipped to my door.
Sometimes, eBay ain't so bad to have around.....
It works, but for how long who knows? So I ordered a new one.
120 bucks at the local jobbber :sneaky:
Dropped in today to pick it up and sure enough, wrong part. Never seen it before in my life. Some kind of electrical switch with a rubberized primer bulb on the end of it.
We went into the parts computer and sure enough that's what was list for fuel shutoff on a 6.5 TD.
So, off to the dealer, against my better judgment.
260 bucks!
Off to eBay.
NIB Stanadyne ESO, P/N 3072, 85 bucks shipped to my door.
Sometimes, eBay ain't so bad to have around.....
Turbine Doc
Just Another Diesel Guy
As a FYI to others not having a spare on hand, if you are stranded and it's the ESO sol that is your problem, spin it out cut off the end so it can't stop fuel; and you'll get home.
On the DS4 it's a back up as much as anything else; as when you turn the ignition switch key off you lose power to the FSD/PMD and engine shuts off.
I would not run forever this way but if stranded it's a way to get back on the road.
On the DS4 it's a back up as much as anything else; as when you turn the ignition switch key off you lose power to the FSD/PMD and engine shuts off.
I would not run forever this way but if stranded it's a way to get back on the road.
Turbine Doc
Just Another Diesel Guy
120 bucks at the local jobbber :sneaky:
Dropped in today to pick it up and sure enough, wrong part. Never seen it before in my life. Some kind of electrical switch with a rubberized primer bulb on the end of it.
NIB Stanadyne ESO, P/N 3072, 85 bucks shipped to my door.
Sometimes, eBay ain't so bad to have around.....
Possibly the part listed was the one for the DB2 IP your description sounds like the one used on those.
2 styles for the DS4 both are cylindrical one has a Allen screw in the end (old type), and newest one has the wrenching hex flat boss in the end of it, both interchange, but the older ones with Allen are prone to leak where the Allen threads into the body
great white
Well-Known Member
Maybe so, I've never seen a DB2 one. But, the parts list was for a 98 so maybe their listing is messed up...
Here's the one I bought:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/GM-6-5-6-5L-Dies...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20b34389e1
Here's the Stanadyne service notice of the part upgrade for anyone interested:
http://www.stanadyne.com/dealerportal/ssi/english/Parts Bulletin/212.pdf
Snipping the stop off an unserviceable one is a good get you home tip! I didn't even think of that.
But TD is right, don't run like this longer than you have to. The ESo is there because the 6.5 is fly by wire as opposed to the throttle cable equipped models. Since the engine is fuel throttled, if you have a "runaway" the ESO is there to cut off the fuel and shut the engine down.
Think "Prius unintended acceleration" protection....
great white
Well-Known Member
After some thought and consideration, I think I'm finally leaning towards a P400 engine replacement for my 599 block instead of an Lb7 conversion.
An LB7 would be nice, but what a hassle to convert. Plus the price of replacement parts. yeah I know, worried about price of parts when a P400 is somewhere around 5-10,000 bucks!
The P400 will only require a custom oil pan, which I can even fab myself if I want. It'll give me all the power I'll ever need (just pulls a 35 foot camper trailer and daily duties) and the reliability is built in.
I'm already setup for tuning the 6.5 obdII, and if real time tuning comes through it's just a bonus.
If we ever go bigger on the trailer, it's going to be outside the trucks rating anyways. But, the trailer is probably here to stay fro a loooooong time after what we paid for it. Think- way too much....:rolleyes5:
So, I figure a budget of somewhere shy of 20 grand will do it. 15 grand on drivetrain and chassis, 5 grand on paint an appearance. That should get me a reliable pulling truck (actually, the truck is pretty dead nuts reliable right now) and something that runs and looks nice every day. Should be reasonable MPG too.
Still waaaaay south of the 50 or 60 grand a new diesel would cost us.....of course, the 599 has to die first (and I'm not going to rush it along!) and I've gotta start saving up my beans!
An LB7 would be nice, but what a hassle to convert. Plus the price of replacement parts. yeah I know, worried about price of parts when a P400 is somewhere around 5-10,000 bucks!
The P400 will only require a custom oil pan, which I can even fab myself if I want. It'll give me all the power I'll ever need (just pulls a 35 foot camper trailer and daily duties) and the reliability is built in.
I'm already setup for tuning the 6.5 obdII, and if real time tuning comes through it's just a bonus.
If we ever go bigger on the trailer, it's going to be outside the trucks rating anyways. But, the trailer is probably here to stay fro a loooooong time after what we paid for it. Think- way too much....:rolleyes5:
So, I figure a budget of somewhere shy of 20 grand will do it. 15 grand on drivetrain and chassis, 5 grand on paint an appearance. That should get me a reliable pulling truck (actually, the truck is pretty dead nuts reliable right now) and something that runs and looks nice every day. Should be reasonable MPG too.
Still waaaaay south of the 50 or 60 grand
a new diesel would cost us.....of course, the 599 has to die first (and I'm not going to rush it along!) and I've gotta start saving up my beans!great white
Well-Known Member
Today, finally got around to hooking up the warning panel.
Egt high of 1050 turns the red EGT LED on, 950 turns it back off again.
Boost high of 10 psi turns the blue Boost light on, 8 psi turns it back off.
WIF yellow light just comes on when the sensor sends the signal. Draining the bowl and turning the power off and on clears the light.
Ran the wiring from the prefilter WIF sensor to the cab for the warning light. All into the secondary split loom I have in the frame rails.
Cleaned up a couple problems I had with the brake controller (had a short in the case that was supplying power continuously) and reshaped the dash opening slightly for one button that was binding.
The new prefilter is doing its job. I can see tiny bits of crud captured and dropping into the bowl already.
Good day, all in all.
Tomorrow:
Brake controller manual lever remote mounting and maybe get to the rear defroster grid.....
Egt high of 1050 turns the red EGT LED on, 950 turns it back off again.
Boost high of 10 psi turns the blue Boost light on, 8 psi turns it back off.
WIF yellow light just comes on when the sensor sends the signal. Draining the bowl and turning the power off and on clears the light.
Ran the wiring from the prefilter WIF sensor to the cab for the warning light. All into the secondary split loom I have in the frame rails.
Cleaned up a couple problems I had with the brake controller (had a short in the case that was supplying power continuously) and reshaped the dash opening slightly for one button that was binding.
The new prefilter is doing its job. I can see tiny bits of crud captured and dropping into the bowl already.
Good day, all in all.
Tomorrow:
Brake controller manual lever remote mounting and maybe get to the rear defroster grid.....
Matt Bachand
Depends on the 6.5
I really like having that bowl. Anything heavier than diesel, (water, rust, etc) will catch at the bottom there and drain out, without filling up the element.
ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
doesn't the pcm control both the shut off and the pmd?
great white
Well-Known Member
Finally took the plunge today and cut the hole in my drivers side knee bolster for teh manual brake control.
No turning back now.....
Also, finished wiring up the info center, lights and homelink in the overhead console.
Now I need a new headliner, I hit it with the hot solering iron and melted a little hole...:34:
No turning back now.....
Also, finished wiring up the info center, lights and homelink in the overhead console.
Now I need a new headliner, I hit it with the hot solering iron and melted a little hole...:34:
great white
Well-Known Member
Well it took half the day, the truck is a mess and the dash panels are just stuck in place but the remote manual lever for the brake controller is in:
Tomorrow, I'll route the cable and attach it to the lever on the brake controller.
It's within easy reach from the driving position, just what I wanted.
I think it looks pretty good!
Tomorrow, I'll route the cable and attach it to the lever on the brake controller.
It's within easy reach from the driving position, just what I wanted.
I think it looks pretty good!
great white
Well-Known Member
Cable is routed, brake controller works hunky dorey with the remote lever. Smooth as butta!
I had to build a braket to hold the cable end in alignment and orientation with the controller, modify the dash structure and modify the brake controller arm/
Took the better park of the afternoon, but worth it!
I also tapped into the dash lights, dimmer and vss signal for the overhead console info center.
All in all, a nice productive xmas vacation. I cleaned up a lot of stuff that's been hanging on about the truck.
All I have left to do is mount and wire the truck cap rear window defroster grid.
Well, and the guages.
And the new touchscreen...
And the exhaust....
And the tuning....
And the....
Aww crap.
I had to build a braket to hold the cable end in alignment and orientation with the controller, modify the dash structure and modify the brake controller arm/
Took the better park of the afternoon, but worth it!
I also tapped into the dash lights, dimmer and vss signal for the overhead console info center.
All in all, a nice productive xmas vacation. I cleaned up a lot of stuff that's been hanging on about the truck.
All I have left to do is mount and wire the truck cap rear window defroster grid.
Well, and the guages.
And the new touchscreen...
And the exhaust....
And the tuning....
And the....
Aww crap.