The forced air induction\more fuel thread...

[Pepperidge]

***Note to all involved in this thread... both sides! ***

the personal jabs back and forth won't be tolerated at all. <---Period!

This is what got another good tech info thread closed...you guys are going to have to figure out a way to coexist on this forum without ruining it for others. keep the personal BS out of it and no excessive cheer-leading from either side...

note: I'd love to have re-opened that other thread and deleted all the inflammatory posts from both sides but it was so polluted with inciting remarks from both sides blended in with the tech, it just became impossible...unless you guys want to see this one end with no conclusion or resolution, I suggest you get your acts together...ya'll are killing the tech on this forum...

NO NEED TO COMMENT ON THIS...SO DON'T !

now back to turbo talk...

any further off topic posts will be deleted...keep it on topic!

 

[vdb11]

Well guys I guess I will add some to the "more fuel" part of this thread...

As many of you know I recently had a rotor machined with .390 inch plungers. I put the pump all together two weeks ago, with a stiffer governor spring. This past weekend was go time for the big project. I pulled the pass. side head and put the T precups in that should have been there in the first place, I then buttoned it all back up (thank god for ARP studs paid for themselves already), and this time used ultra black rtv and the cork gaskets to attempt to keep the valve covers from leaking, which they have been since the rebuild, and dripping down the exhaust manifold and onto the crossover where it proceeded to burn and smell bad and smoke.

Anyways I put the new pump in, hook up lines, I had a friend drill and tap the tail piece for 1/4 pipe thread so I can run a 3/8 line between the pump and FFM. I then tried to get it to fire (no turbo, lower intake, crossover) before I went any farther. No go, not a drip from the back of the IP. I cranked it plenty, the IP was full of fuel and I could see fuel in the clear return line I have. So I thought maybe the fuel shutoff wasn't working on the new pump, so I tried the top off the old pump, still no go.

So today after class, I drove home (in my dads 95 C3500HD w/ the 6.5 and 5-speed of course ) and quickly condemned the new pump. So I took it out, transferred the stiff gov spring to the old pump, pretty much maxed it out, and put it in the truck slightly advanced. Cranked it a couple times and I could hear her start to hit on a few cylinders. So I spent the rest of the night putting the truck back together, including the Peninsular upper which looks awesome by the way. Fired her up at 11:20 and drove back to campus.

So thats my failure so far. I am not sure what it could be with the new pump. Maybe I don't have something together right. Maybe the plungers are too loose and not building enough pressure to open the delivery valve to let any fuel through the lines, or the delivery valve is adjusted too tight I am not sure. I was thinking of taking the pump to an injection shop and have them test it on a stand, what do you guys think??

Anyways the truck idles too high right now (almost 1200 rpm) but I didn't have time to mess with it. She seems to run stronger, EGTs aren't too bad, maybe I should get some videos. I don't know how much it smokes because it was dark but from what I could tell it still doesn't smoke much.

 

[Slim Shady]

If the govenor spring is not adjusted correctly it will make your idle either high or low depending on the spring pressure. I don't know exactly how to explain it better than that . Take the bolt out that holds the govenor spring in and there is an allen adjustment to shorten the over all length (compress the spring)or increase it (lengthen the spring). Pm me if you need help with it I can speak with you and maybe explain it better on the phone. We can discuss your other pump. Did DB2 pump rebuilds in the dealer back in the eighties with the old 5.7 liter olds diesel. Yep that old, been there, made a good living on the old governor rings that failed. They are a real nice pump if you know how to adjust them correctly. It aint rocket science, just takes perseverance.

 

[vdb11]

Haha understandable. You know I was wondering what that adjustment was for, I am getting to know the internals of these pumps a little better, and I couldn't understand what the adjustment in that rod was for. You are referring to the rod that comes out of the pump housing in the rear above the injection outlets right? It has a nut on it and an allen head visible from the outside. When I put the different gov spring in, I took apart the threaded rod and piece that catches the throttle shaft, and put a different spring in between them and put them back together. There is then that smaller rod that fits inside the larger threaded rod with a spring which is the one I am talking about that extends to outside the housing. Is that the one to adjust?

When I put the different spring in, I attempted to match the distance that the spring took up with stock. But I really didn't know what the smaller rod adjustment was for.

Thanks Slim! I may have to give you a call on this other pump. I am thinking I might get a small 3/8 torque ratchet as the Stanadyne online manual cites torque specs that are lower than I can do with our 1/2 torque wrench, so I kinda had to guess them. I didn't mess with the delivery valve at all but something might be wrong there.

 

[6.2 turbo]

Did you check if the centering hole in the drive slot opened up.like mine did ? Another thing,sometimes plungers can stick, I used compressed shop air in the fuel inlet already,this pops them out.

 

[vdb11]

No I did not check that, when you say centering hole in the drive slot, are you referring to where the rotor meshes with the drive shaft inside the pump? Also I never thought that the plungers could stick, but that is a good point, when I put the pump together I used clean diesel to put things together.

 

[6.2 turbo]

Yes that is correct,but at .390 it should not be a problem ? I drove the Tahoe about a mile,it was almost out of fuel,and the HX 52 never seemed to light. After adding 5 gal of fuel I did a second gear burnout, hit the lockup switch and it chocked it off. It was only making 10 psi of boost. Looks like it might be awhile until every thing works like I want it to.

 

[vdb11]

I might take a look at the pump this weekend. Would an injection shop be able to test the pump on a stand? (without charging me an arm and a leg).

What pump are you running on the Tahoe? the DB4?

Is the 52 wastegated? Is this the pro 52 or the Volvo 52?

 

[6.2 turbo]

It is the pro 52,I think they are the same as volvo. I just have the a stock pump that's turned up all the way,and it also seems to hit the governor early. Ive heard of quit a few DB pumps seizing on the test stand. Your engine can be a test stand for free.

 

[vdb11]

Haha yeah I know what you mean about the free test stand, I at least want to be a bit more sure the truck will at least start on the new pump and get me from A to B before I go through putting it in. I will check what some of you guys have said when I get the chance. When you said about the drive slot, does that mean the drive shaft can slide out enough to no longer be in contact with the rotor??

Is your avatar a picture of the pro 52?

 

[turbonator]

Haha yeah I know what you mean about the free test stand, I at least want to be a bit more sure the truck will at least start on the new pump and get me from A to B before I go through putting it in. I will check what some of you guys have said when I get the chance. When you said about the drive slot, does that mean the drive shaft can slide out enough to no longer be in contact with the rotor??

Is your avatar a picture of the pro 52?

yeah its the pro 52... no wastegate on it.....

 

[6.2 turbo]

That's a HX 55 ,I thought it was a 52,they are almost the same. The rotor can't slide out of its slot. There is a tiny dimple type hole dead center in the rotor ,drive end. When they machined mine for 1/2 inch,it opened up from the inside, I simply made a tiny plug from a screw and pressed it in with a punch and hammer. If I do another one I might weld it shut first,or offset the plungers . I think your plungers are just stuck. Try the air hose trick,and once its running give them some time to break in before thrashing it.

 

[vdb11]

Oh ok. When I talked to Gary over at Davies he mentioned running into some type of cavity when he did your plungers, that must have been it. He told me he did not run into the same problem with mine, so you could be right with the plungers being stuck, I didn't realize they could do that ha.

Thanks!

 

[vdb11]

Well guys I didn't get any chance to work on the pump over the weekend, I instead spent Saturday cleaning up the absolute mess I had left in the shop at home I also reorganized my tools, finally put that little tin cover on the bellhousing, and I attempted to adjust the idle, which was a big fail.

Apparently I am not understanding the idle adjustment correctly, it must be something internal. I have the screw on the throttle linkage backed out, and it won't even touch at idle, something else is keeping it too high. Oh well I will figure it out eventually.

So I was just looking around at intercooler stuff and saw something interesting. Frozen boost has a "pre-intercooler" pipe that is supposed to help cool down the air before entering the intercooler. It is aluminum and has fins on it, but it is straight through on the inside, like a 6" section of pipe. You can look it up on the site. What do you guys think? It says right in the description not intended to replace an intercooler, but I wonder how much it would cool on its own?

jim and jeff, did you guys get the 660 block cemented this weekend?

 

[turbonator]

Well guys I didn't get any chance to work on the pump over the weekend, I instead spent Saturday cleaning up the absolute mess I had left in the shop at home I also reorganized my tools, finally put that little tin cover on the bellhousing, and I attempted to adjust the idle, which was a big fail.

Apparently I am not understanding the idle adjustment correctly, it must be something internal. I have the screw on the throttle linkage backed out, and it won't even touch at idle, something else is keeping it too high. Oh well I will figure it out eventually.

So I was just looking around at intercooler stuff and saw something interesting. Frozen boost has a "pre-intercooler" pipe that is supposed to help cool down the air before entering the intercooler. It is aluminum and has fins on it, but it is straight through on the inside, like a 6" section of pipe. You can look it up on the site. What do you guys think? It says right in the description not intended to replace an intercooler, but I wonder how much it would cool on its own?

jim and jeff, did you guys get the 660 block cemented this weekend?

uh, no we did not get time..... we got 1/4 of the shop wired, and started putting our fire wood away.... so many things, and not enough time or money...LOL.... about your idle issues, you need to back off your governor shaft that is in the back of the pump... it has a 5/16 allen head, or a 10mm, it has a lock nut on it... get the lock nut just loose on it, start the engine and slowly turn it out, if everything is good inside the IP, it should lower your idle... jim said one night this week he is going to rough the girdle so we can torque the caps down to pour the cement.... we have to find time, as the weather is going in the toilet and we still need to build an out door wood stove to heat our water, to heat the garage....:agreed:

 

[vdb11]

Sounds like you guys have quite the list of things to do!

That's exactly what I did with the pump, I loosened the lock nut and turned the shaft out, enough that I thought it would make a difference but it didn't seem to help, it may have dropped the rpm by 50-100, but its still hovering in the 1100-1200 range. I may have something not quite right on the inside. Today I was driving home from work and I was winding it out some, to see how she performed. This is coming from someone that rarely let their 6.5 go over 2600 rpm so I am getting there It seems that when I get real close to 3000 rpm, it kind of takes off on its own, I had it to 3400 rpm and then when I let go of the throttle it slowed down slowly and wanted to stay around 1500 rpm until I let the clutch out in gear.

Anyways you guys are filling that block almost to the top right? What are you going to use it for? I have two inches of Hardblok in mine and it likes to run around 190-195 cruising around (with a 190 t-stat) but I have gotten it to almost hit 210 pretty easily under hard acceleration with a load of straw behind me.

Good luck with getting things ready for winter we are in a similar situation here, the weather is pretty crappy and we still have hay to do, and an equipment building to build Summer goes too fast....

 

[turbonator]

Sounds like you guys have quite the list of things to do!

That's exactly what I did with the pump, I loosened the lock nut and turned the shaft out, enough that I thought it would make a difference but it didn't seem to help, it may have dropped the rpm by 50-100, but its still hovering in the 1100-1200 range. I may have something not quite right on the inside. Today I was driving home from work and I was winding it out some, to see how she performed. This is coming from someone that rarely let their 6.5 go over 2600 rpm so I am getting there It seems that when I get real close to 3000 rpm, it kind of takes off on its own, I had it to 3400 rpm and then when I let go of the throttle it slowed down slowly and wanted to stay around 1500 rpm until I let the clutch out in gear.

Anyways you guys are filling that block almost to the top right? What are you going to use it for? I have two inches of Hardblok in mine and it likes to run around 190-195 cruising around (with a 190 t-stat) but I have gotten it to almost hit 210 pretty easily under hard acceleration with a load of straw behind me.

Good luck with getting things ready for winter we are in a similar situation here, the weather is pretty crappy and we still have hay to do, and an equipment building to build Summer goes too fast....

it will be daily driver, work truck... we are filling it to about 1 1/2 from the top... if we find it runs too hot, we have already discussed a remote mount rad / heat exchanger mount somewhere under the truck with an electric, thermistatically controlled fan and an electric pump to circulate the water... we have a custom built rad in there too, 4 core copper...

 

[vdb11]

Very interesting! I am anxious to see how it does for temps, there is only one way to find out if things are gonna work and thats to try it

 

[6.2 turbo]

You can tighten the governor inside this will lower the idle. If you want it were it is you must loosen the 1/4" head bolt on the metering valve linkage and adjust it. This is very tricky and takes several tries. Also be prepared for it to runaway. What works best is to get it set to idle were you want with the idle screw set as low as possible,with out binding. This gives more governor surge when letting out the clutch,and most important your not wasting much needed throttle travel. If you replaced the main governor spring inside,you simply didn't tighten it far enough.

 

[vdb11]

Oh ok I see. When I put the different main spring in, I tried to match the distance between the head of the bolt and the piece that it threads into that contacts the throttle shaft so it was the same as stock. I will give that a try. The idea of this thing running away scares the crap outta me ha. I have heard just dump the clutch in fifth but I would be scared to do that in the garage. I will probably just unhook the air intake that way I can suffocate it.