Sucked Near A Quart of Oil, Temp went to 210.

[MrMarty51]

Thank You very much @JayTheCPA
Went to WM this morning and picked up a 5 gal bucket of T-4 15-W40 Rotella.
I’ll quiz NAPA on the bypass oil filter and get the number. I will also search out a source for the FRANTZ oil filters and order in a half a dozen of those.
Now time to get to work.
Will check in later.

 

[Will L.]

Lots of different suggestions on how long to run the break-in oil.

There is legitimate difference in times and methods based on which break in oil is used.

Then there is all the “my gramps said”.

Breaking in the engine- biggest two things breaking in are the rings and the bearings. The rings then falls into two categories of compression rings vs oil rings.
From running the rings a lot and giving them heat cycles hardens the material. But you want the fine edge of the ring to quickly wear to match the surface of the cylinder wall. This isn’t at the eyeball level, this is microscope level.

I have seen engines go 30,000 miles and never seat in he rings because it wasn’t done right from the beginning. And when the rings don’t seat it isn’t just the oil ring not doing its job and keeping oil out of the combustion chamber- it is the fuel not being stopped from going into the oil (higher crankcase pressure aka blow by from day 1). That is really rough on bearings because it’s much higher carbon in the oil.

Then there is simply difference of opinions. But the rings being seated is. 90% of break in. So what the ring manufacturer says for the brand you buy is who you should listen to most!

As to filter- a little text from a friend here when talking about this the other day-

Laboratory Test Performance per ISO 454812 18 grams dirt (WIX 51515), 99% efficient at 23 microns (Based on WIX 51515, WIX 51356, WIX 57060).

Oil Filter Laboratory Test Performance per ISO 454812 32 grams dirt (51515XP), 99% efficient at 35 microns (Based on 51515XP 51356XP, 57060XP)

 

[MrMarty51]

There is legitimate difference in times and methods based on which break in oil is used.

Then there is all the “my gramps said”.

Breaking in the engine- biggest two things breaking in are the rings and the bearings. The rings then falls into two categories of compression rings vs oil rings.
From running the rings a lot and giving them heat cycles hardens the material. But you want the fine edge of the ring to quickly wear to match the surface of the cylinder wall. This isn’t at the eyeball level, this is microscope level.

I have seen engines go 30,000 miles and never seat in he rings because it wasn’t done right from the beginning. And when the rings don’t seat it isn’t just the oil ring not doing its job and keeping oil out of the combustion chamber- it is the fuel not being stopped from going into the oil (higher crankcase pressure aka blow by from day 1). That is really rough on bearings because it’s much higher carbon in the oil.

Then there is simply difference of opinions. But the rings being seated is. 90% of break in. So what the ring manufacturer says for the brand you buy is who you should listen to most!

As to filter- a little text from a friend here when talking about this the other day-

Laboratory Test Performance per ISO 454812 18 grams dirt (WIX 51515), 99% efficient at 23 microns (Based on WIX 51515, WIX 51356, WIX 57060).

Oil Filter Laboratory Test Performance per ISO 454812 32 grams dirt (51515XP), 99% efficient at 35 microns (Based on 51515XP 51356XP, 57060XP)

99% should be real good, I’d guess.
Picked up two NAPA gold filters on my routes this morning.

Old timer I learned a lot from about engine break in procedure, he was with everything talked a out here on rings and seating.
He went one step farther though. He talked about creating flexibility in the rings too.
True of not, I never questioned it. Just went with what He prescribed.

 

[ak diesel driver]

Just for clarification there is not a bypass filter that will work in place of the main filter, it's too restrictive. Bypass filters are always an additional filter that just samples a part of the overall oil flow.

 

[Will L.]

Just for clarification there is not a bypass filter that will work in place of the main filter, it's too restrictive. Bypass filters are always an additional filter that just samples a part of the overall oil flow.

Excellent point. When your regular filter bypasses, that means the oil that is coming back from your oil cooler goes through without being filtered at all.

Going to very fine filters that catch all the stuff sounds good but if you don’t keep it clean all the time, or that filter can’t flow all the oil fast enough- then it will back up and build pressure which opens the bypass in the filter.

So compare a 50 micron filter at 90% efficiency vs 5 microns at 90% efficiency. Cleaning to 5 is awesome- except it’s only gonna do it for 30 seconds then bypass. Now the one that is 50 microns will never bypass so 100% of the oil is being filters but only at 50 microns. Now, if you have a “bypass filter” like the Frantz, that will randomly take off 5% of the oil and clean it to a ridiculously clean amount till it is actually cleaner than new.
Getting that mix of how much you filter in your main is the game played.

Having massive volume of oil to the bearings is whats actually critical.
So things like nascar- they don’t have oil filters- they run a screen. So I was chasing the idea of running a screen and using a centrifuge daily to actually clean the oil. In the end the extra work and risk wasn’t worth the benefits so I dropped it.

 

[MrMarty51]

I got just the standard NAPA gold filters, got two of those and a five gallon bucket of dino 15-W40 oil. Be good for a couple of oil changes then I’ll chase whatever else will be needed for a third and possibly fourth oil change before going Syn.

 

[MrMarty51]

I wont be doing any more with the truck until next week.
Needing to get ready to go to the cabin tomorrow.
Borrowing the step sons wifeys Dodge pigup to drag the boat to the lake.

 

[jrsavoie]

I was reading that. Some says up to 1,500 miles.
I reached out to QS Tuning and asked their opinion.
I’m on my way to WM this morning for some 15-W40’Rotella.
Not yet decided on brand of oil filter. Seems everyone is suggesting the bypass type of filter.
Is that what should be run ? Probably go with the NAPA Gold.

I had problems with 3 Napa Gold filters and never used them again.

I prefer Baldwin, Wix, Donaldson, Amsoil, Mobile1

If you got the engine from Leroy, his opinion and instructions are really the only opinion that counts

 

[jrsavoie]

My Optimizer 6.5 consumed 1.5 to 2.0 quarts in the first 1,500 miles, then stopped consuming oil.

This.

 

[jrsavoie]

Ok, I'll go ahead an toss in a thought about break-in and the rings.

Am seeing where goal is less about varying the RPM and more about heat / cool cycles for the rings. Am more convinced that the "vary the RPM" advice is just a crude means for getting a heat / cool cycle for the rings as opposed to making the population understand the mechanics of seating the rings via heat / cool cycles. Put another way, people will more easily understand "vary the RPM" as opposed to trying to teach them about thermal expansion, blowby, and abrasion within an internal combustion engine's cylinder.

For the first 1,000 miles, my ideal is to find places where it is practicable to apply 75% power for as long as possible (heat cycle), and then idle power (with the TCC in a slushbox locked, or MT in the highest gear possible) immediately thereafter for as long as possible (cool cycle). Trying to get caught by a yellow light is great for this technique. In the GMT400 with a slushbox and OE tune, the heat cycle is easy, but the cool cycle is not as effective given that the OE code unlocks the TCC on deceleration.

After the initial 1,000 miles, I then increase the heat cycle to WOT and try to add some load (junk in the trunk, trailer, whatever).

Am fairly certain that the reason not to do WOT during the initial 1,000 miles is due to the extra blow-by and oil consumption while the rings are seating.


For what I'd do at this point with the 900 mile Optimizer:
- Adding to the chorus of changing the oil and filter *now*.
- Looks like the heat / cool cycle was already fairly well addressed, although I'd hold off on towing until after 1,000 miles and certain that the cooling stack is solid.
- Change the oil and filter at 1,400 miles. Get some good WOT / idle cycles during this interval.
- Change the oil and filter at 2,500 miles.
- Change the oil and filter at 4,000 miles.
- Sample the oil for analysis at 6,000 miles to determine the next oil and filter change interval.
- Continue getting analysis prior to each likely oil and filter change point to determine next change interval and when the engine is ready for synthetic (if you want to use synthetic). Put another way, let the oil analysis determine when to extend oil and filter changes. As a data point, on the Burb's new P-400, analysis results had me change the oil and filter every 3,000 miles well past 10K on the engine. Got rid of the truck by 20K and was still on the 3K change interval as analysis continued to show that the engine was still in break-in mode.

And this.

 

[MrMarty51]

Reply from John @Quadstar Tuning LLC on the email enquiry.
This is a screen shot from my gmail.

 

[jrsavoie]

At some point, I started installing a T in.the return line from the engine oil cooler to feed the under the hood bypass filters

I returned to the engine oil fill neck. The nipple in.the fill neck needs to point slightly down into the neck, so oil doesn't splash out, incase you remove the fill cap with the engine running.

This usually happens when you remove the cap to see what the oil flow from the bypass filter looks like.

The fittings and lines were eithrr 1/8 or 1/4"

I always found a place to mount the bypass filters under the hood. I never liked anything hanging down under a vehicle because I had stupid stuff happen before. Like soybean stubble rip off a front brake flex line.

 

[MrMarty51]

At some point, I started installing a T in.the return line from the engine oil cooler to feed the under the hood bypass filters

I returned to the engine oil fill neck. The nipple in.the fill neck needs to point slightly down into the neck, so oil doesn't splash out, incase you remove the fill cap with the engine running.

This usually happens when you remove the cap to see what the oil flow from the bypass filter looks like.

The fittings and lines were eithrr 1/8 or 1/4"

I always found a place to mount the bypass filters under the hood. I never liked anything hanging down under a vehicle because I had stupid stuff happen before. Like soybean stubble rip off a front brake flex line.

That might be a nice thing to add after I get all these other issues figured out. The bypass filter system.
Maybe I panicked, about the temperature going to 205*f then to 210*F at an idle.
I thought sure that the 190 stats should cool it down some.
At least I now know that the turbo seals are holding and there is no oil intrusion from that or the CDR valve.
I will put that back together with a different lower intake manifold, yeah, someone had helicoiled the lower intake manifold and the center forward bolt hole for the upper manifold hold down bolt busted out.
The PO of this truck is sending me a lower intake manifold.
I’ll post a pic after work.

 

[MrMarty51]

Belt tensioner.
Before deciding on a proper belt to eliminate the vacuum pump, tried about five different belts. As soon as the engine was started it seemed the tensioner would adjust to the maximum stretch limit according to the indicators.
I finally selected the shortest belt that could still stretch over the pulleys.
I checked the tensioner just in case the belt had stretched enough to create slippage.
Belt is still plenty tight.

 

[MrMarty51]

Ambient air temp must have been close to 90* F.
Observing the temperature gauge.
This was right out of town.

 

[MrMarty51]

An acceleration run.
I did get the turd, oooops, turn signal lamp turned off once I quit messing with the phone and started driving.

 

[MrMarty51]

Once I got back to town.
Was not happy with these numbers.
A/C is on IIRC.

I will be exchanging coolant pumps.
Install that new AC Delco unit, after comparing it to the old NAPA unit and the pump thats getting removed from the truck.

 

[ak diesel driver]

Was that video before changing anything, or had you already checked the stats?

 

[MrMarty51]

Was that video before changing anything, or had you already checked the stats?

I had only changed the oil and filter, using Rotella T-4 15-W40 oil.
The coolant pump will be next.
Did the oil and filter first in case that break in oil would have been causing some issues.
I didnt see how it could have been an oil issue, unless it was diluted to near total fuel but never know unless its tried.

 

[MrMarty51]

Oil is still full after about a 18 mile run.
Tonight. Didnt stop for supper. Just tore into the beast.
Coolant pump removed.
Old NAPA pump with original equipment backing plate. This pump with this plate did an excellent job of cooling.

Old NAPA pump with original backing plate.

Chinesium KO pump from Rock Auto.
Remember, I had ordered by the AC Delco part numbers but is what I was sent was this POS that had a GM original tag attached with the original GM part no.

The new AC Delco pump with the Quadstar Tuning backing plate.

The old backing plate fits this new pump exactly the same as the one from Quad Star tuning.
I’m thinking of doing a little die grinding on this new pump so there is no pump blocking the backing plate.
Would that be advisable ?