dbrannon79
I'm getting there!
I think the No.1 is the same stuff as the old Indian head shelack brown bottle with a brush. some tuff stuff and never hardens.
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Rebuild about done
- Thread starter Rodd
- Start date
Rodd
Recruit
This truck has been a thorn in my side (mainly my son's). Not sure where to go from as far as figuring out the head gasket issue. My son put the permatex black on the stud threads, tightened them and waited 3 days. He just tightened down the heads and got it buttoned up and the water is now in the oil. It hadn't got into the oil till now. Before the water only got into the valve cover but never made it into the oil. It could have been there previously but never made it to the oil. Previously it had run for no more than an hour or two but it never made it in. Now after 15 minutes it gets into the oil. I am thinking it is the composite head gaskets. As a refresher so you don't have to go looking back, the rebuild had low compression on the driver side. No water issue in the oil. The head gaskets were the felpro ones that came with the rebuild kit. So we replaced all the rings and bearings, good compression now. Engine runs great but it's leaking water into the valve cover. Replaced head gaskets w/ composite gaskets. Put permatex black onto the studs and we are at the present. Any thoughts? I am thinking it is the composite head gaskets.
Get rid of the studs and buy new tty head bolts...
Again as I wrote in post #268: look for bubbles to see what side or both be the problem with T stat crossover removed. Remove valve covers and see if you find the coolant leak plain as day around a stud. We are assuming it's head bolts or gaskets vs. cracked block, cylinder, head.
Coolant in oil can also come from the timing chain gear cover housing or internal water pump bolts.
Rodd
Recruit
You are correct. I assumed my son did that. I just asked him and he didn't. He's doing that next.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Yeah the timing cover/waterpump engineering abortion is a super common fight for oil/water leaks. I stopped using them for “the right stuff” years ago. Needing the proper thickness of it in place when running gear drive is the only reason imo to have a gasket there. So when needed I spend an extra day to ensure no issue by using permatex on one side only to the timing cover. Be 100% none on the other side. Install and let cure 24 hours. Next day remove it and examine the gasket is where it is supposed to be and not shifted. Now another fine layer of permatex and install it for good.
A waste of time& production until you have to tear apart the whole thing to fix it…
A waste of time& production until you have to tear apart the whole thing to fix it…
Will L.
Well-Known Member
And if you don’t NEED head studs for additional boost, power, etc. DO NOT USE THEM. I’m adding studs to mine and am wishing I could use bolts.
You said put on the sealant and waited three days. There is like 20 versions of how to do this. Did he chamfer the block for the permatex created oring like Chris came up with? Did he chamfer the top of the head and use an oring like Leroy shows in his video (can’t remember who had that idea). Did he follow the method in my write up (linked in signature) that the two engineers came up as an acceptable solution? How about the guys who mix in the loctite?
There was talk of permatex creating a loctite&sealer combo just for these issues- more than just 6.5 has it.
Is it oil into water but oil stays clean?
Is it water into oil but water stays clean?
Or both contamination?
If the common suspect is head studs leaking into head under valve covers:
Remove valve covers. Remove lower radiator hoses from engine and cap port.
Hook up coolant pressure tester and pressure to your trucks rating somewhere around 16psi and watch for the leaks.
Level2.0 version of that test.
Remove thermostat(s). Reinstall housing capped off- a rubber sheet as gasket with just holes for mounting screws works well. You want the engine water system isolated from truck completely. Make an adapter to connect garden hose to the heater hose located on the crossover. As you fill with water you have to vent the air somewhere. Pressurize the system with the hose. Watch for where the leak is to address it properly.
This topic almost always goes here so before it’s asked- we all use a hammer to install the plugs. How much psi does it take to “POP” a plug? Same amount as it took to install it. Blast your finger with the garden hose pressure. Now to compare- hit your finger with the same hammer just as hard and as many times as you did with the hammer to install it. Tell me the pressure is anywhere newr the same from your house even if you have 100psi.
Remember we call them “freeze plugs/ frost plugs” etc because some idiot started that and when you say “casting sand removal port sealing plug” everyone gets confused. Billet blocks, billet heads do not have them and are not required because there is no sand to remove. And nothing explodes when engine warms up. here where it is rare to have freezing temperatures, many many people run straight water in the cooling system. When it freezes the radiator is always what fails. The cores are thin and exchange the heat faster. Sometimes the plastic tanks pop off most the time the cores rupture. Even with all the rust from years of straight water I have never seen a “freeze plugs” have water turn to ice and create the massive pressure required to push out a freeze plugs. So no, the water pressure will not push out a freeze plug. Feel free to guess how I test my head studs before installing an engine by the above…
You often can not see the failed head gasket because it tears apart when being removed.
Before ripping everything apart unless he is eliminating the studs- IF oil is also going into water I would seriously try the old trick of running an an oil pump primer for hours on an dry water system to examine for oil getting into the water system to be seen where exactly it is happening.
Diagnostic time is to eliminate parts cannon and repeated attempts.
You said put on the sealant and waited three days. There is like 20 versions of how to do this. Did he chamfer the block for the permatex created oring like Chris came up with? Did he chamfer the top of the head and use an oring like Leroy shows in his video (can’t remember who had that idea). Did he follow the method in my write up (linked in signature) that the two engineers came up as an acceptable solution? How about the guys who mix in the loctite?
There was talk of permatex creating a loctite&sealer combo just for these issues- more than just 6.5 has it.
Is it oil into water but oil stays clean?
Is it water into oil but water stays clean?
Or both contamination?
If the common suspect is head studs leaking into head under valve covers:
Remove valve covers. Remove lower radiator hoses from engine and cap port.
Hook up coolant pressure tester and pressure to your trucks rating somewhere around 16psi and watch for the leaks.
Level2.0 version of that test.
Remove thermostat(s). Reinstall housing capped off- a rubber sheet as gasket with just holes for mounting screws works well. You want the engine water system isolated from truck completely. Make an adapter to connect garden hose to the heater hose located on the crossover. As you fill with water you have to vent the air somewhere. Pressurize the system with the hose. Watch for where the leak is to address it properly.
This topic almost always goes here so before it’s asked- we all use a hammer to install the plugs. How much psi does it take to “POP” a plug? Same amount as it took to install it. Blast your finger with the garden hose pressure. Now to compare- hit your finger with the same hammer just as hard and as many times as you did with the hammer to install it. Tell me the pressure is anywhere newr the same from your house even if you have 100psi.
Remember we call them “freeze plugs/ frost plugs” etc because some idiot started that and when you say “casting sand removal port sealing plug” everyone gets confused. Billet blocks, billet heads do not have them and are not required because there is no sand to remove. And nothing explodes when engine warms up. here where it is rare to have freezing temperatures, many many people run straight water in the cooling system. When it freezes the radiator is always what fails. The cores are thin and exchange the heat faster. Sometimes the plastic tanks pop off most the time the cores rupture. Even with all the rust from years of straight water I have never seen a “freeze plugs” have water turn to ice and create the massive pressure required to push out a freeze plugs. So no, the water pressure will not push out a freeze plug. Feel free to guess how I test my head studs before installing an engine by the above…
You often can not see the failed head gasket because it tears apart when being removed.
Before ripping everything apart unless he is eliminating the studs- IF oil is also going into water I would seriously try the old trick of running an an oil pump primer for hours on an dry water system to examine for oil getting into the water system to be seen where exactly it is happening.
Diagnostic time is to eliminate parts cannon and repeated attempts.
Rodd
Recruit
Thanks for the info. I will have my son read this 4 or 5 times. I actually noticed the dipstick getting a little frothy on the handle end first while it was running.
after taking the coolant crossover off, the passenger side water would slightly rise, while the driver side would shoot out.
He wanted to run extra boost with the head studs but with all the issues, we are going back to the bolts.
after taking the coolant crossover off, the passenger side water would slightly rise, while the driver side would shoot out.
He wanted to run extra boost with the head studs but with all the issues, we are going back to the bolts.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
What turbo, what boost, what exhaust pipe, how much fuel?
Rodd
Recruit
gm8, not sure of boost. It has a turbo master. It was 8-10 psi before rebuild with same length on the screw. Not sure of fuel.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
Absolutely get rid of the head studs!