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pls help me

ham7944

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Problem: Explain your problem in concise language (ie: Cranks but won’t fire). _______running rough and dumping white smoke_____________________

Demographics: tell us about your truck and your ambient conditions:

- Year: __1997____
- Truck model and class (ie: c2500) ___2500______
- Automatic or Standard ___auto_______
- Mileage: (indicate miles or km) ___140000kms______
- Replaced parts and mods (IP, PMD, chip/PCM, TM, injectors etc) _pmd and heat sync new glow plugs new fuel filter__________
- Model: ‘S’ or ‘F’ engine, NA or Turbo, EGR? ___turbo and yes egr___________
- Ambient outside temp: (indicate *C or *F) __10*C________
- What fuel are you using? (#1 Diesel, #2 Diesel, Bio, VO, WVO, etc) ___petro canada...not to sure what that would be______
- What fuel additives are you using? ___lucus________
- Where are you located? _____british columbia canada________

General maintenance: inspect and evaluate the condition of each. When were they last changed?
- Air filter ______new___
- Fuel filter _new________
- CDR Valve? __unknown_______
- Coolant – last flushed/replaced at ___6mths__________
- Oil – synthetic/regular, changed at __reg every 5000kms_________
- Batteries – state of charge, (matched set) replaced at ___new__________
- Battery cables and grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened): ________check ok______
- Glow Plugs - how many miles on them? ___0 new______ What type? _____ac oem________
- Injectors - last changed at _____unknown__________


History: (Describe how the problem first appeared.)
- What were you doing when it happened? ____decellerating from 80 -60kms and felt rough running and then noticed the white smoke pouring out of the exhaust__________
- How was the truck running fine before this problem appeared? ________excellent thought i got a steal on the truck cause i just bought it a week before that_____
- Has this problem ever happened before? _____unknown__________________
- Describe any related factors that might be part of the problem. _____n/a_________
- Have you checked for DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes)? (Y.N) __Y__ And? ___no codes_____


Diagnostics:

1] Starting:
1a] Does the engine start? ___yes______
1b] Does the engine crank over? __yes______
1c] Are your batteries fully charged? ____yes_____
1d] Have you removed, cleaned, and tightened all battery connections? ____yes____
1e] Does your Wait to Start light come on for a time? How long? ___10seconds______
1f] Does your glow plug light come on? ____yes_____ For how long? _______10seconds__
1g] Do you see smoke from the exhaust while cranking? What color? __no______
1h] Does the Service Engine Light Glow during Start/bulb check? ______no__

2] Fuel Issues (if not running):
2a] Can you hear your lift pump working? _____yes_______
2b] Do you get a steady flow of fuel from the water drain (T-handle) ? ____yes_____
2c] Loosen the inlet line from the IP – is fuel coming out (Lift Pump on)? ______yes_____
2d] Loosen an injector line and crank the engine - does fuel come out? _______havent tried that__
2e] Do you hear a vacuum (hiss) when you remove the fuel cap? ____yes_______

3] PMD / IP Issues
3a] Location of PMD (on pump, on intake, remote mounted) ______intake_____
3b] Condition of Extension harness (if used) Vendor or Homemade? _________
3c] Condition of grounds / ground wires to IP / PMD. Check Harness. _________
3d] PMD Make: ___________
3e] PMD Age: _______brand new______

4] Stalling Issues
4a] Do you experience stalling only when hot? ____no________
4b] Does it stall under particular circumstances? (ie hit bump, or on accel) ___no___
4c] Does pouring cool water over the IP seem to help with restarting? ______n/a___
4d] Is stalling momentary (engine recovers)? ___n/a______
4e] Does SES light come on when engine hiccups? ____no_____
4f] Does cruise control quit working when engine hiccups? ____n/a_______
4g] Does re-starting seem to reset engine, restoring cruise and power? _________
4h] Changes to dash lights or instruments during stalling events? ___________

5] Running Issues
5a] On cold start, does upper rad hose get hard before engine warms up? ___unknown____
5b] ny bubbles or oil film in coolant overflow tank? ____no___
5c] Any white slime on oil surfaces (dipstick, CDR, oil Fill cap)? ____no______
5d] Excessive white smoke from exhaust on cold start? __yes_______
5e] Excessive black smoke from exhaust under hard acceleration? ______no white____

6] Performance Issues
6a] Do you have gauges (boost, EGT) ? _____no______
6b] Maximum boost under load? ___unknown_________
6c] Have you added a performance PCM (reflash) or Chip? _____no_________
6d] Have you changed exhaust / downpipe / crossover? ___no_____________
6e] Wastegate – mechanical or vacuum (OEM)? _____vac oem_________

7] Temperature-related Issues:
7a] Single or dual thermostats? _____dual_______
7b] Have you replaced them lately? Manufacturer of replacements? ____no_____
7c] Have you pulled and cleaned Radiator and coolers lately? _______no_____
7d] Have you replaced the fan clutch? Manufacturer of replacement? __no______
7e] (winter) Have you tested your antifreeze? Good to what temp? __________
7f] (winter) Are you using a winter grille cover? ___________

List and describe any other factors which are not addressed in this checklist. We can’t see, hear, smell, or touch your truck, so the more descriptive information you can give, the more likely it is that somebody can assist you.

____________the truck was running excellent up until this day. i was slowing down to 60kms from about 80 and started feeling chugging and sluggish throttle and then noticed the white smoke, i stepped on it a bit and got back up to over 90 and seemed to run fine again and no smoke but as soon as i slow down all hell breaks lose again and even worse at idle. no coolant smell new pmd new fuel filter lift pump has been swapped with new one lots of fuel at water in fuel port. cut out the cat thinkin maybe exhaust was plugged and thats not it either. im thinking injector pump but i hope someone can steer me in a cheaper direction than that. thanks to all...i am new on this site but have learned alot from it in the last few days_____________________
 
If you're not loosing coolant that would point to low compression. Do a compression test to find cylinder that's not up to snuff. A bent or broken push rod could cause something like that also. When you find the offending cylinder then pull that valve cover off to check for broken parts. The rocker arm retainers break some times[plastic] causing the push rod to fall out of the rocker arm.
 
yea it is definetly raw fuel. i have read that possible failure of ip will cause the white smoke because of air being in fuel. and to bk95td...thanks for the reply i am so hoping it is not internal.
 
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IP would be my guess. Just loooked at one for someone who ran it on gas and took out the IP. Doing excatly what you describe. If it's a dead cyl you could loosen lines one by one until it stops or use a scan tool to shut the cyls off one by one. Ip not that expensive. Pensacola sells remans for around 450$ IIRC. Not too bad a job to change. Plenty of threads on it. Just scribe the old one real good before pulling it. Killing the cyl one by one can isolate the cyl then you can figure out from there if it's compression or a blown nozzle but if killing the cyls one by one makes no differnce I'd lean towards IP.
 
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yea i used a friend pmd after unplugging my own and didnt make a difference so was unsure if his was good so i just said screw it and bought another one installed it and still doin the same. i guess the vantage scan tool will allow me to isolate cylinder by cylinder???
 
i have tried 3 different pmds one being brand new that i just got in and no difference. scanner is showing there are no codes thrown out
 
Ham, I would try to get my hands on a Tech-II first. You need to be able to isolate which cylinder is causing the problem. Your average scanner won't tell you that.

If it is indeed a raw-fuel issue, there are several possibilities:

- valve-train issue would be my first guess. If the cylinder can't generate enough compression because of a valve not sealing, it won't ignite. If the leak is small, then the cylinder WILL generate enough compression at higher RPMs to ignite and it will seem to run smoother. Compression test is the best way to check this.

- Injector issue would be my next guess... at your mileage, an injector could very well be fouled (open), leading to a fuel dribble or squirt, instead of an atomized spray. THIS IS A BIG PROBLEM... uneven atomization can drastically raise in-cylinder temps and can burn holes in pistons. A Tech-II will help you to check that cylinder, and changing one injector will tell you if that was it or not.

- injection pump... possible, but doesn't sound like it to me. Try the other stuff first.

My opinion. Where are you in BC? We have some members around there that may be able to give you a hand...

PS - if it is a coolant issue, different set of stuff - you need to isolate the problem.
Jim
 
i am in squamish just north of vancouver. any input would be great as i have wrapped my head around this one and my 93 for the past week. luckily the white smoke on the 93 with 510000kms was a lift pump issue and thats it.
 
Definately agree you should do compression check.

unplug up the EGR vacuum and plug that line if you havent already, youll get EGR codes, but they wont do anything but disable EGR system, see if anything changes. Maybe even try removing the EGR alltogether.

HAve you gotten into the engine to see if injector pump is still bolted down correctly?
 
Could a faulty egr cause that smoke? Maybe the gasket in the tower is f'ed.
 
have yet to plug egr port yet ill try that next along with all the other tips i have recieved. i have never brought a vehicle to a service shop for anything even if it takes twice as long i always do myself and thats what i am tryin to stay clear of so every lil thing helps
 
i am in squamish just north of vancouver. any input would be great as i have wrapped my head around this one and my 93 for the past week. luckily the white smoke on the 93 with 510000kms was a lift pump issue and thats it.

Send a PM to TurboVanman... he's a tech; think he lives in Abbotsford. It would be close enough to call him, anyway. Another member, Edzzed, lives in Cloverdale and has a pile of 6.5 knowledge and experience. He's been conspicuously absent for the last little while as he was an Olympic Volunteer (of course, being from Squamish, you know all about the Olympic fever stuff)

Jim

PS - yeah, I agree with Leo too... the EGR "Mystery gasket" can cause smoke symptoms, but not likely the low-rpm miss that disappears at higher rpm. Unplug it and plug the hose as Buddy suggests.
 
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I had to fight with a K2500 few weeks ago : started fine, but was iddling and running rough with a lot of white smoke at exhaust (unburnt fuel)

It was caused by a broken intake valve : no compression in cylinder 6. No compression, so no explosion stroke possible which makes a lot of white smoke.

The AE scanner was showing unbalance fault in several cylinders in my case.
 
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Jim what do you think about just loosening lines to find the Cylinder ? Tech2 is nice but not always availible. Not sure iof AE or carcode can do cyl kill. I know GMTDScan can but he is OBD2
 
For informations sake , you might check the history of the truck at a GM dealers to see if the IP has ever been changed & at what mileage . Wont prove anything but the info may help you decide in what direction to head first.
 
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