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OK. Need help. Swapping a TH400 out and NV4500 in OBS truck.

ACE,it is hard to tell from here if the sinc rings are worn but as long as they don't bottom out against the gears i think they're OK.
The loose nut on the output shaft causes all kinds of problems.

Friend of mine had a vibration(more like a drone) and a hard shift in first in his 94 chevy 3500 6.5 NV 4500.
turned out the 5th gear nut was loose
Tranny shop welded the nut to the shaft after torqueing ,(not to smart i think) but it solved the drone and the hard shift.
 
I did alot of reading about the 5 gear nut issue and the consensus I came up with is the diesels seem to have more issues due to the harmonics of the engine. That would make sense since Dodge suffers the worse and Cummins will shake the filling out of your teeth. Now would a Fluidampr fix that issue ?? The nut fix won't work on GM NV4500 with SMF because of the damper on the output shaft so I'd be curious short of welding the nut(which I won't do) if somone good loctite and a Fluidampr would solve the issue ?? Hmm....
 
well hey there stranger! found this thread while doing a search for th400 to nv4500 swap. I am really enjoying my new project truck, but i hate the th400 and need more gears. I've investigated built 700r4s, 4l80e with a stand-alone computer, nothing seems like a simple, straightforward swap. It's not going to be a front-line plow truck so I don't care if its an automatic, in fact I'd rather drive a stick, however an sm465 wouldn't cut it for me. If I'm going to do all this work I need to gain something from it, like for instance, overdrive. I'm currently getting laughable mpg with my 3 speed and 4.10s behind a stock 454.
So, it's starting to look like an nv4500 might be in order. The reading I've been doing suggests that my np205 has the same input (32 spline). But AA offers a kit to install the 205 to the 4500, as if they don't mate up or something. This confuses me greatly.
So, I'm interested in hearing how your project is going and what helpful info I might be able to get from you. I do have another vehicle to drive, but I would still like to have all the parts I need ready before rolling it into the shop.
 
You didn' say what truck you are working on but I'll assume the '82 gasser. I am not sure exactly on the years but there was an NP205 that had a slip yoke that does have the 32 spline and pretty much bolts up, but good luck finding one. The Adaptor made by Advance AFAIK is to make the older style NP205 fit . Those are more abundant. I am using the (think it's a 208) that came with the CUCV. That I know will bolt up. Those are a dime a dozen. You could even use a getrag on a gasser but the NV4500 is way better. You won't need the diesel version either although you could use it. I was going o start the swap this weekend but the weather has made that impossible.
 
All I know is the truck is all original (well, the motors a dealer replacement) th400/np205 combo. The truck actually has an early version of auto locking hubs, which thrills me to no end, so I am not going to change anything that would cause me to lose that. I don't know if the transfer case has anything to do with that or not, but I'd just as soon keep the 205 and the auto locking hubs. I don't want to swap to a weaker chain drive, and the only strong chain drive I've owned was the 97 diesel, and that had the front driveshaft on the wrong side.
Guess I need to do some more research. I have no clue about manuals, I mean I can change a clutch but I don't know anything about hydraulics and slave cylinders and so forth. My cousin tells me manuals are simpler, and he'll help me do the swap. idk about that, I've swapped plenty of automatics and they seemed easier.

Didn't see any 4500s the first time I looked on Craigslist either..
 
TC has nothing to do with autolocking hubs. They work of centrifgul force. They are all well and good if you use them frequently but they tend to rust and then not work when you need them the most...If the 205 has a circular bolt pattern and a slip joint output shaft that is the one that will bolt right on. Nothing wrong with a chain case. I have an NP208 on my CUCV and I beat the balls out of it all last winter pushing a 9ft plow with 35s.
Don't get me wrong, the 205 is the best out there short of mil spec but they can be broken as well...I ripped the output shaft right out of an NP205 . it was still attached to the driveshaft. I unbolted the driveshaft from the rear and put the truck in 4wd with the transfer case ripped apart and it drove home...Try doing that with an aluminum one...:D
 
Well I'm glad to know the t-case isn't involved. I wasn't sure, and I couldn't figure out why it would be when I was thinking about it. My truck sat two years and the hubs work the balls. But I will be sure to test them once in a while to keep them working. So if I could find the right t-case I could do it? Would I need the AA adaptor to set it on the crossmember or no? I'm pretty sure Idon't have that t-case you mentioned, mine should be the 73-85 or something, was 10 spline instead of 32, and its a 'racetrack' pattern instead of circular. My output is a yoke, not a slipjoint.
I have stretched some chains before in 203s and 208s, but surprised I was never able to hurt the 241 in my 97. I also broke a 205, my tranny mount was weak and allowed the tranny and case to bounce. The hanging weight on the back side of the crossmember caused the case to snap right in half. I always seem to have the worst luck with what everyone says is the toughest. I've busted a lot of solid front axles, and this Dana 60 does not impress me much. I've had to deal with the death wobble, I've replaced kingpin springs and wheel bearings and it's leaking oil out of one side, changing the leaf springs (twice) was a pita. Not going to be able to do much plowing with it, because it's 20 feet long and the wheels don't turn enough. Conversely, my allegedly weak 97 IFS stood up to many years of hard abuse, plowing with oversized tires and a big plow. Only problem I ever had was the wheel bearing hubs couldn't take the weight of the plow and failed every couple of years. I'd rather have that IFS under this truck that the 60. Imagine that? Probably not a popular conversion!

Anyway, back to the original topic, I'm still looking for a 4500. Maybe I could sell my 205 and buy a newer one, or if another t-case will work I could do that. I suppose if they put the 208 in the cucvs it ought to be good enough for me. Does the 208 bolt right up? It's at least got to be a right hand front output. I thought if I could find a whole truck to buy with a 5 speed I could get most of what I need, but it would be an IFS truck with a left front output..
 
so it seems like every time I see an nv4500 for sale, it's out of a half ton truck. One ad says "for six lug truck". What is the difference? Do I need to avoid half ton parts (I normally do!) or is the trans the same?
 
I don't think the NV4500 was available in half tons unless 6.5 diesel. NV3500 was common in 1/2 tons. I can post pics of the 4500 if that would help.[I have a couple laying around my shop right now]
 
AA makes the kit for nthe TC you have but it's bucks and I don't see the benefit of the money spent unless you are doing hardcore 4wheeling with some serious HP. I agree about the Dana 60's. I ran Dana 44's and they held up pretty good other than ball joints and wheel bearings but in those days that stuff was dirt cheap. Make no mistake a 60 is stronger...But not always needed. The 44's have the best turning radius. The 10 bolts are garbage.
 
maybe I need to find a cucv for a donor truck. I was tossing around the idea of swapping out my axles for srw so I could run bigger tires, the 4.56s, locker and correct width would make that possible after all. Then I could use the 208 case too. If I ever find a 4500 trans.
 
Acesneights1 said:
The 44's have the best turning radius.
Click to expand...
So there is a difference! I thought maybe it was just because my truck is so long, but it is really terrible. If I need to turn it around I really have to think about it first to make sure I've got room. Can't really do a 3 point turn with a trailer on. I've turned as tight a circle as I can with it in a Walmart parking lot, it was ridiculous how huge a circle it was.
One more reason to swap in an IFS ;>
 
the 4500s did come in half tons, just ultra rare. the last one I bought was removed from an ECLB 2wd half ton. I assumed it was an NV3500 (aluminum one) and needed one for my 91 gasser, and it was 150 bucks. show up, and I have a cast case with PTO covers staring at me. I was pleased for 150 bucks to say the least! :)
 
If it's cast iron and a toploader...Buy it..:D
Put IFS IN ??? God, why....Sorry, I think they are junk. I can't wait to rip mine out. Yes the Dana 44 turns way better. Something to do with the geometry of the knuckles vs steering arm. funny thing is the parts are interchangable. There should also be stops on the knuckles you can adjust to make it turn better although they are usually mauled...:D
 
I'm so pissed. I got my ARP Flywheel bolts and the heads stick up too much and will hit the clutch disk. I guess I gotta use the ones that came with the flywheel although they really should be replaced. I could probably shave a little off the top of the heads in my new lathe but I wonder if that would compromise the integrity of the bolt ?? It would still be bigger than what is in there but I am not sure about the temper of the heads...
 
BTW I have confirmed the Centerforce clutch in my possession says LUK right on it but it does look like they changed the friction material on the flywheel side only.
 
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