Ok here is the deal...all suggestions welcome!

[Crankme69]

My 1500 would not start Wednesday morning here cranking too slow...it was 2 DegF out & I had it plugged in...cranking speed is critical IME on any diesel.

So I had it hooked up to a charger on 50amps trying to start it for a few hrs that morning until I finally surrendered & swapped in 2 known good batteries. I was not eager to swap batteries with the ambient temp at 2 degF out there that morning. After I swapped the batteries I did get it started but it started rough & now ever after it starts the same like chit...like I fried something maybe the glow plugs or the GP controller with that charger???

The wait to start light still comes on just like it did before & this truck barely used to smoke at all on startup prior to this event & it used to fire up almost immediately before this like 1 or maybe 2 revolutions at the most. Now it starts like an Ole Mack taking like 7~8 or 10 revolutions before it stumbles to life blowing out unburned fuel until it steadies out... :mad2:

Any suggestions would be appreciated...what did I fry :???: :mad2:

 

[colbythekid]

I don't know if its the same problem, but that soulds simmiler to what I was dealing with. My issue was one dead battery and one dying starter.

Colby

 

[NVW]

Pull the easy glow plugs and check them out with 12v, that should give you an indication of their condition.

 

[Odlaw]

If you know how to use an ohm meter - just ohm out the GP's right in the truck. My ole girl would crank fine in our warm southern temps down here with half of her GP's working - would smoke a little on startup. One morning she would not crank - and it was only about 50-60 degrees out. Checked my GP's again and at this time I was down to 2 working.

 

[WarWagon]

Can you determine cranking speed? (I have a hand held optical tach that can.) You need 100 RPM cold min. A starter draw test can be done as well by a good starter shop with starter on the truck.

50 amps charger for 1200 needed starting (and supplied by 2 good batteries) is like peeing on a waterfall. Might have brought the bats back to life, but, i would turn it off for starting attempts.

With low voltage from bad bats and long fight you have browned out your starter and possible connections. This brown out turns the engine slow and the starter armature windings get really hot because they are on longer rather than a short time with faster spinning. (As the starter spins the brushes turn on and off windings. faster spinning means less on time.) The damage is to brush springs going weak from heat then they arc the brushes. Bad contact and the arcing slows down the starter. One brush can fail and reduce the starter's power by half. Complete single brush failure and you will not be able to start the engine. They usually don't completely fail and the starter 'drags'.

Check your grounds and positive cables now. Recall you just subjected them to high heat of a brownout.

Glow plugs are suggested above. Myself I would include a lift pump test. And also check for air with the clear return line because air is causing me hard starting...

 

[TurboTahoe]

Here are my suggestions:

1) Take the batteries out, and have them load-tested at a battery or auto center. Many will do it for free. Call to make sure. Replace in matched pairs if they need it.
2) Make sure you have good battery and ground connections. Check the FAQs for tips. Good thick cables, don't forget the ones going to the starter.
3) If you can afford it, switch to 100% synthetic oil - I prefer Amsoil or Mobil 1. They really do stay thinner than normal oil.
4) Use a auto float/trickle charger on your batteries if you can. Keep the batteries topped up - They do discharge more quickly in cold weather.
5) Use the block heater, or if yours doesn't work, try one of those magnetic oil pan heaters - I've used them, and if you put them on right after you shut down from a run it is helpful to keep heat in the oil.
6) As mentioned, check your glows.

Sincerely,

Rob

 

[Crankme69]

Oh Fudge!

Yea I have been thinking it may be time to pull the starter & have it rebuilt.

I will try to find a shop that can measure the draw on the new batteries when cranking.

Any idea where I might be able to find a tach to measure the cranking RPM's? Will my GMTD Scan program measure RPMs during cranking?

All the grounds were cleaned last July, but I have not checked the terminals at the starter...yet. I also just cleaned the battery terminals along with the bolt upgrades when I installed the new batteries.

The GP's I can measure, I was just hoping for a easy fix, guess that is wishful thinking hey

Piss's me off, this truck always started great until last Wednesday :mad2:

I new the batteries were getting weak & I had planned on replacing them, just did not plan on them causing all this to go chit with em...dam it

 

[jrsavoie]

What is the proper method for checking draw during starting?

Can you just clamp an ampeter around the positive cable?

If so what should the reading be?

 

[Paveltolz]

Use your ohm meter to check the block heater. If it reads open or Zero Ohms, you've got a new project. Mine was very hard to start last year and the isse turned out to be a dead block heater. Once that was taken care of, no more slow / rough starts. New starter this year has made things even better this winter.

 

[Matt Bachand]

If you must use the vehicle before your repairs don't forget the heat gun / hairdryer trick in the intake may help you get going.

New batts, 4 easy GP's in, clean all connections and grounds and re-evaluate.++


This is precisely why every year end of summer/beginning of fall I remove each power lead, and ground and dremel super clean. Then when its 2 degrees outside I'm confident they are good.

 

[Acesneights1]

I'd see if your block heater is working. Like WW said 50 amps is a trickle charge in that app. Plus what quality batt charger ? If it's a Wal Mart special I doubt you are even getting that and the batt charger probably went into saftey 30 seconds into cranking.

 

[Crankme69]

Why don't I buy something new...maybe because I am too cheap LOL!

Thanks for the replies.

I will have to check the GP's & block heater, this truck will not fit in my garage currently, too much chit in there to get it in & close the door.

The new batteries I just purchased went into the Tahoe, the ones from the Tahoe Interstate megatrons that look fairly new are now in this truck. It cranks with much more authority now then previously with the old redtop Optimas.

I'll get back to ya's with my findings, it may be a while, cause I can drive the Tahoe while I diagnose this one.

The Tahoe PMD needs change, it started acting up yesterday. Good thing I have the new gray Stanadyne & cable to install from Leroy for that. Only issue now is I no longer have a reliable spare PMD for either rig. I guess when it rains it pours.

Like in my title here...makes me wonder why at 50yrs old I am fighting with these vehicles that are now 16yrs old...WTF am I doing :???: :mad2:

 

[great white]

Still have your stock PCM lying around?

Try swapping that back in if this all started with a drop in temps.

If it's been cold where you are for a while on the current chip you're running, follow the rest of the advice here on glow plugs, starter and block heater.

Cheers

 

[Turbine Doc]

Ohm meter isn't an absolute test, it will tell if it's completely burned out/showing open, but a weak glow will show good with meter, only way to tell if glow is really good is to remove from the block and apply 12V to it it should glow red center to tip in 4 sec or less, if it takes longer than that then it's time to be looking for new ones. Been my experience if you find one bad, others soon to follow, so I replace the set.

Bad CTS also another possibility,

 

[Crankme69]

Here is a little feed back...

The Tahoe has been starting hard (cold only) ever since I purchased it...so yesterday in the driveway 20 degf out me & my son installed 4 new GP's in it. Started it up, ran fine took it for a ride & was lucky to get back to the house with it.

My patience is wearing thin with this mother F N chit...

Have no idea what is wrong with the Tahoe now.

My truck that I was asking about in this post is currently running (starts like chit cold even plugged in) as long as I keep it plugged in. I located a place here at work this morning to plug it in, so hopefully it will start when I depart today at 3:30.

I like all you folks that I have met here, but I need a dependable vehicle, that starts in all weather :nonod::mad2::nonod::mad2::nonod::mad2::nonod::mad2::mad2:

 

[JiFaire]

Good glow plugs, manual over-ride on them, dual block heaters (especially handy if your employer alternates plug-ins, like mine does ), and a Hair Dryer for emergencies... and you should be just fine!

The point about checking your PCM is interesting, though... a stock PCM reads the CTS and adjusts injection timing based on that. If your truck started great in warm weather, then starts like crap now, you might want to either swap back your old PCM (to remove the variable) or investigate the CTS with an ohmmeter... there's a comparison chart in the tech library.

Of course, if you just want to sell the thing cheap before it causes you more aggravation, you know you can offer to make me a deal like I wouldn't believe...

 

[jrsavoie]

Where do you buy your fuel?

I always try to buy someplace where they sell a lot.

I also add a dose each of cetane boost, Amsoil diesel fuel additive and White Power Service at each fill up.

Run some fuel out your drain - a quart to 1/2 gallon into a clean jug - I use a one gallon pickle jar. Check your fuel filters.

It's bad enough in the cold much less when you can't get inside - now it's just plain brutal.

It only takes one fill up of bad fuel to screw things up.
Cold weather seems to bring out the worst in everything.

For us plugged in or not has never really been an issue for starting. Our cold starting issues were always fuel, filter or glow plugs. Mostly fuel and fuel filter.

As you know I've been using 5w30 Amsoil ever since way back when.

A friend has a 1995? gasser 110,000 for sale $4500 His Mother-in-laws

Wish I could offer you a warm shop but my walls are currently about 2' above the ground on 3 sides of the shop. It's a little breezy in there. I'm going to have to blow all the snow off my tools.
If I can be of some help give me a call

 

[Crankme69]

Thanks Gents...Jim I'll give you 1st dips if my patience wears out with either one of these...

The truck started fine leaving work today and appears as long as I can keep it plugged in will be fine. The truck is gonna be needing a new or starter rebuild, it does not start at the same cranking speed as the Tahoe.

My son changed the fuel filter today in the Tahoe for us today, the old one was not dirty...it made NO difference at all. I'm sure the root cause of the Tahoe's issue can be determined with a little testing, just too dam cold out right now to do it.

The Tahoe will fit in my garage with a little clean up, that is gonna happen this weekend.

They will both get fixed, I just needed to blow off a little steam reset my RV & carry on...

I'll post up my findings with em...Arrrg!

 

[NVW]

Did you check the glows in the truck yet?

Mine was starting better this winter plugged in than it did in warmer weather not plugged in. This led me to believe I had glow problems on the block heater side. 11.4v to each lead and each glow tested good with direct 12v applied, the leads seemed a little loose on a couple so I fixed that and now all is well again.

 

[rbtaylor14]

Crankme69 I had the same trouble you are having put off changing the glow plugs for years. I even had to boost the truck like you did. Glow plugs don't like high boost even at 50 amp. I would change the glow plugs. After I did mine it starts right up even after not being plugged in.