New Nozzle question

[Jaryd]

For the cost of nozzles, idk that I would do it unless you were doing a bunch of other stuff anyways yourself and can pop test your own at home to check on them every 25-30k miles. A good lubricant added to the fuel makes a huge difference. And running atf even in a ds4 helps a lot because of the detergent in it.

Some of the bad pattern sprays comes from carbon build up on the face. Wmi helps so much it is amazing. Even if you dont run wmi, doing the spray bottle method once in a while is a good idea.

One of the things I would like to do to the nozzle parts is cryogenic treating. The strength gains are not needed, but it does improve wear from impact by usually 10%. Just not the spring.

Any atf or is there a certain atf that is better than the rest. I always use 2 stroke oil but after reading through the other thread I found today (i think I may have gelled) I think was the name, I figured if anybody knows it’s going to be you.

 

[Will L.]

Good ol dextron

 

[Paveltolz]

The ULSD effects are something I hadn't considered. The injectors that started this discussion have not had any fuel additives run through them. Reason being is when the new motor was built, I purchased a new IP (DS-4, DS5521S) with the hardened internals, so "no additives needed." Ok, fine, but, I never even considered the effects on the injectors. That changes tomorrow when I get home (after snuggling the new granddaughter of course). Suburban gets a quart of two stroke for each full tank. I know the PO did that for it as there was still a couple of quarts in the back when I got it.

 

[MrMarty51]

Any atf or is there a certain atf that is better than the rest. I always use 2 stroke oil but after reading through the other thread I found today (i think I may have gelled) I think was the name, I figured if anybody knows it’s going to be you.

So if a person starts running two stroke oil, should they still use the diesel fuel additive ?

 

[Jaryd]

So if a person starts running two stroke oil, should they still use the diesel fuel additive ?

I would probably do 1/2 and 1/2. I’m basing this off of what I have read before. Some trucks don’t mind a lot of additives and some the optical sensor is very sensitive. Mine might not be to sensitive because it got 2 quarts of 2 stroke a couple months ago plus what ever was still in there from what fuel was still in it. I put one in and walked in the store and then my wife come behind me and put another one in because she thought I just finished pumping and walked inside.

 

[Husker6.5]

I used DieselServices products in my Burb and 3/4 ton with great results.

 

[MrMarty51]

I would probably do 1/2 and 1/2. I’m basing this off of what I have read before. Some trucks don’t mind a lot of additives and some the optical sensor is very sensitive. Mine might not be to sensitive because it got 2 quarts of 2 stroke a couple months ago plus what ever was still in there from what fuel was still in it. I put one in and walked in the store and then my wife come behind me and put another one in because she thought I just finished pumping and walked inside.

I`ll get several quarts of two stroke oil tomorrow and give it a try. I did dump in one quart once, that was way early last summer, I do remember that it seemed to make some difference on power.

 

[MrMarty51]

I used DieselServices products in my Burb and 3/4 ton with great results.

I have used that on several occasions too.
My son has one of those smallish John Deere diesel tractors, He never buys anything unless He has thoroughly investigated it. He was using the Stanadyne in the tractor, so, if He is using it, it must top rated. LOL
Besides, the injection pump is stanadyne too, so it must be good. LOL

 

[Husker6.5]

Actually, I brain-farted. That should be PowerService's DieselKleen (summer) and their anti-gel/conditioner in the winter.

 

[MrMarty51]

Actually, I brain-farted. That should be PowerService's DieselKleen (summer) and their anti-gel/conditioner in the winter.

I went out and looked at one of the one tank jugs I carry, refill them with the Stanadyne stuff, it is the Power Services jug.
I always reuse the smaller jugs because it is easier to pour into the tank and they have the calibrated window on a portion of the jug. Makes it easier to guestimate how much to add to a tank according to where the fuel gauge sets.

 

[Hink]

Stanadyne power formula for me, but I'll probly price some ATF and switch to that if it makes sense.

 

[MrMarty51]

I went to walmart, not my favorite store to visit. They had only small jugs of two stroke oil so I got one of those, dumped it in at the last fill up. Got on walmart website to get some gallon jugs. Free shipping over 35.00, I got three gallons of the TC-W3 oil for about 38.00.

 

[JMJNet]

I went to walmart, not my favorite store to visit. They had only small jugs of two stroke oil so I got one of those, dumped it in at the last fill up. Got on walmart website to get some gallon jugs. Free shipping over 35.00, I got three gallons of the TC-W3 oil for about 38.00.

I have added the WM Supertech 2 cycle ever since I own the truck.
10 oz or so per fill up about 20 to 30 gallons.
Mix with Diesel Additive.

 

[MrMarty51]

Thankyou everybody for your help, good info, it looks as iff i have to disassemble the air intake pipe to get at it,. I have been busy, so i've been putting up with the long crank times.
This truck runs and drives so nicely
I have been trying to understand just how the cp sensor works, its a hall effect sensor, what i can't figure is does it interrupt constant 5v going to ecm or does it switch on 5v to ecm as needed.
Truck starts pretty good but needs just a touch of throttle when stone cold to kick in the advance,. (22f) here.

I have added the WM Supertech 2 cycle ever since I own the truck.
10 oz or so per fill up about 20 to 30 gallons.
Mix with Diesel Additive.

YUP, I`ll still keep ruing the Stanadyne performance additive too. Next big money on this truck`ll be the Leroy Walbro lift pump kit.

 

[Paveltolz]

Sorry not to bring this to closure sooner. Ultimately, it was decided that these injectectors would not be rebuilt by AK. My choice. AK mailed them back and on my roadtrip up to see Bill, I was given a lesson on pop testing and what to look for. As AK mentioned, he couldn't get one to pop despite putting 4K to it. I did get that one to go though it took a few attempts to get it to pop. There were actually a couple of them that wouldn't pop until well past 3500psi. Even then, the stubborn one only shot a steady stream. After a few added pops it started to produce something of a pattern but it was awful. None of the injectors in this group produced any 'chatter' when popped; all of them had poor spray patterns and those that did pop under 3K psi did so around 2600psi. One let go at 18-1900. I left them with Bill to be rebuilt and balanced as a spare set.

I pulled the injectors out of the Suburban and took them along for testing. Surprised and pleased that all popped at 21-2300; chattered happily and produced good spray patterns.

 

[Husker6.5]

Think there may be internal corrosion in that set that didn't pop/spray right? Those pop pressures were all over the place, and that one behaved like it was mechanically (rust) frozen.

 

[ak diesel driver]

I didn't see any signs of corrosion. I pulled one apart to see what brand nozzle

 

[JayTheCPA]

I case anybody is looking for feedback on Leroy's current injectors. Just did a ~1,500 mile road trip on them after a fuel system rehab. Had them pop tested prior to install and IIRC they were all 2,175. Truck is running the best it ever did. And this is not its first set of new injectors, or new injection parts. Throttle response is much better than the marines that were in the Burb. On start-up, it does not belch near as much as the marines did (I had to park wisely with the marines as they made a black poof when the Burb started).

Next big money on this truck`ll be the Leroy Walbro lift pump kit.

Make that Leroy's Carter LP kit

Just swapped out the Walbro for the new Carter. You will like it.

The Carter's psi does not fall off nearly as much as the Walbro did under load. Specifically, in the Burb, the Carter is in the 9-ish psi range when cruising on the highway and at ~90% power (with passengers, luggage, and bike rack on the rear) I saw it drop into the 7psi range. Under the same conditions, the Walbro would drop to 2 psi. In full disclosure, I replaced the *entire* fuel system (and I do mean *everything* that the fuel touched) at the same time as when the Carter went in, so that might have played into the Walbro's behavior under load as some of the fuel lines were original to the truck.

 

[MrMarty51]

I case anybody is looking for feedback on Leroy's current injectors. Just did a ~1,500 mile road trip on them after a fuel system rehab. Had them pop tested prior to install and IIRC they were all 2,175. Truck is running the best it ever did. And this is not its first set of new injectors, or new injection parts. Throttle response is much better than the marines that were in the Burb. On start-up, it does not belch near as much as the marines did (I had to park wisely with the marines as they made a black poof when the Burb started).



Make that Leroy's Carter LP kit

Just swapped out the Walbro for the new Carter. You will like it.

The Carter's psi does not fall off nearly as much as the Walbro did under load. Specifically, in the Burb, the Carter is in the 9-ish psi range when cruising on the highway and at ~90% power (with passengers, luggage, and bike rack on the rear) I saw it drop into the 7psi range. Under the same conditions, the Walbro would drop to 2 psi. In full disclosure, I replaced the *entire* fuel system (and I do mean *everything* that the fuel touched) at the same time as when the Carter went in, so that might have played into the Walbro's behavior under load as some of the fuel lines were original to the truck.

YUP. I hade looked at Leroys lift pump kits, I do not know why I had Walbro stuck in My head at the time of the posting. LOL

 

[Will L.]

@JayTheCPA you said the new Bosch India injectors were all at 2175. As in-Were they all EXACTLY at 2175?!?
Over on hummer forum a guy has been doing checking and got a response that the India ones are now all coming within 30 psi of each other- which is frickin awesome for out if the box, but only 1 source. Did you test or who tested for you?

What I am hoping:
I called Bosch sometime back (3 years ish) and spoke to them about the difference in quality of German vs India, and he of coarse said all meet spec- blah blah. I told him-
Look, write down these websites, and listed every 6.5 forum I knew that talked about them. I explained they get a fraction of the sales outside of what they make for GEP because people are unhappy and when one company steps up and gets it right again, as none were currently, they will become the go to supplier for everyone. He never even heard of 6.5 forums and looked here and another while we spoke. Funny cuz his tone changed as he came to realize I wasn’t a mad customer bashing, I was desiring to become a customer and drag in a bunch more to him or someone that would just get it right.
I’ve done this with several mfr of various parts. A couple times I got the results I did from the guy at Bosch: He said he is going to push for better tolerance of the tip that the German’s had, and would push for a more accurate setting. He told me outright that their variance was +-200 and that They were just making sure to stay ahead of Delphi, who they consider the only competitor. They do have a customer- didn’t say who that requires a tighter event spec - but wouldn’t say what or who- but mentioned that as an example that it is not impossible to get them all there. He said no promises anything would actually change but did promise he would research my claim and request more then if legit as it seems, would bring it up for review to the decision makers. He said if everything went perfect it would be a year before customers start getting results. He didn’t say how much, but did say a small price increase would occur if they made it a new standard spec. @Burning oil has there been a price adjustment in last year or so that was a tad more than expected? If so, this could be it.
Bosch doesn’t believe in advertising specs compared to competitors, so they wouldn’t announce “hey we just fixed our stuff, so now everyone buy from us”

I looked for his contact info, and I lost it like a moron. I called and chased down the position, and am awaiting return calls- last time it took me a month or so to get the right person.

We know the India’s had some problems, but have beaten the current competition overall. Doesn’t mean they didn’t have failures. T-stats & Sensors for example we know AC Delco has most sucess, but just today on Hummer forum a post about a AC tstat that fell apart in place. It is mass production, failures are going to happen. All we can do is learn who the best sucess rate is, and hope for what MAY be happening at Bosch- tightening up QC and improving an existing product.

@Paveltolz how long ago did you buy the Bosch injectors? Did you have any water in fuel lights since installing them? Any fuel issues at all? 10k is psycho short for a bosch problem. Also- can you hit the difference in pressure test more clearly between AK and Bill? Can you ask what tester he uses? Absolutely not trying to make a person look bad here. I have 100% confidence Bill does as perfect a job as possible testing injectors, and know that AK is not years of experienced. Wondering about difference of testers used also. That could be the big difference. @ak diesel driver - can you post pic of your tester? Any light you can shed about carbon build up or anything unusual about the early death injector?