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Never overheat again?

SNAFU! . . . From the FAA, 2009; effective July 17, 2009
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...0?OpenDocument
"It has been found that the coolant liquid EVANS NPG + is a flammable fluid. The engine liquid cooling system of the affected Aeromot aircrafts is not designed to operate with flammable liquids. Therefore, there is an unacceptable engine fire risk associated with the use of Evans NPG + fluid.
The MCAI (mandatory continuing airworthiness information) requires replacement of the EVANS NPG + coolant liquid, application of new red lines on the engine cylinder head temperature gauge, replacement of the engine radiator cap, and insertion of information into the airplane flight manual (AFM). We are issuing this AD to require actions to correct the unsafe condition on these products. "

http://www.stemme.de/daten/d/service...1a_easa_ad.pdf

Apparently, the Germans knew about this back in 2006.

My first reaction was "holy shit!" Tomorrow I'm calling Evans, I'll report back.
Thanks, guys.
 
We have been selling Evans coolant for 7 years and use it ourselves. When we had the 6.5TD it worked well. You don't need a special water pump. As long as the truck has got a clean coolant system you will not have any issues with it. The only thin I recommend is replace your thermostats with Robert Shaw stats. The open further and will allow more flow. Run your stock cap because the pressure will be low anyway. The coolant has to be near boiling point to vaporize and its the vapor that builds pressure. Do not drill a hole in the cap and run zero pressure. One problem is when the engine cools down it will draw in air and then moisture enter the system and that is what you don't want. Also I have seen the rad hose collapse if it has pulled hard and then all of a sudden you peak the hill and it cools off fast. The hardest part about switching is flushing all the old coolant out. On the 6.5 the bloack drains are hard to get to. But once you flush it out you can fill it up and the leave the rad cap loose and block the rad . Drive it so it gets to 220* or more so the excess water can boil out. You are allowed 2% water but why not get it all out. $27.50 a gallon when buying 4 gallon or more.

Greg

Hi Greg,

If this is really a good product, which some of us are willing to try to experiment with, could you post a detailed step-by-step on how to replace the coolant in the 6.5?

Naturally, using photos of the 6.5 would be great too!

-Rob :)
 
Hi Greg,

If this is really a good product, which some of us are willing to try to experiment with, could you post a detailed step-by-step on how to replace the coolant in the 6.5?

Naturally, using photos of the 6.5 would be great too!

-Rob :)

I don't have a 6.5 anymore so pictures are out. Not a big deal to replace. All you need to do is flush the engine, rad and heater core with lots of fresh water. Blow out any excess. Fill with Evans and block the rad with cardboard or what ever. Leave the rad cap off or on the first notch. Drive it so it can get to 220-230*. This will boil out any water that was left in the system. Top off and put the cap on and your done.

Greg
 
Aditionally, if you have a suburban, jack up the rear at least 1 foot to allow more of the rear heater coolant to drain. I disconnected the lower rad hose to drain: the rad petcock and block drains are almost impossible to get to.

Oh, about the flamability issue (post #61), Evans is not as flammable as brake fluid, Power steering fluid, or Diesel!

No worries.
 
I don't have a 6.5 anymore so pictures are out. Not a big deal to replace. All you need to do is flush the engine, rad and heater core with lots of fresh water. Blow out any excess. Fill with Evans and block the rad with cardboard or what ever. Leave the rad cap off or on the first notch. Drive it so it can get to 220-230*. This will boil out any water that was left in the system. Top off and put the cap on and your done.

Greg

How does one go about 'blowing out the excess'?

-Rob :)
 
EVANS NPG coolant/antifreeze is dangerous!

Oh, about the flamability issue (post #61), Evans is not as flammable as brake fluid, Power steering fluid, or Diesel!
Boy, was I wrong! Evans said it's not dangerous, but it IS!
"Holy shit" was a good first impression.

The following is copy/pasted directly from the Evans MSDS (MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET )page.
http://www.evanscooling.com/download...MSDS NPG.pdf
SECTION 7 – FIRE FIGHTING INFORMATION
FLASH POINT (Method Used) 225°F FLAMMABLE LIMITS lower = 2.6% upper = 12.5%
EXTINGUISHING MEDIA water fog, foam, dry chemical

SPECIAL FIRE FIGHTING PROCEDURES Keep fire-exposed containers cool with water fog. Wear SCBA and full turnout gear as recommended by NFPA.
UNUSUAL FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARDS None expected under normal storage and handling conditions. However, failing engine components such as cracked exhaust header, leaking ignition spark, or abnormally hot engine part with temperature above flash or autoignition point can cause product to burn. Avoid spills in engine compartment.

SECTION 15 – REGULATORY INFORMATION
COMPONENT INFORMATION
00057-55-6 Propylene Glycol >99%
Water <1%- - - - - - Proprietary Corrosion Inhibitor Package <1%
________________________________________________________

The coolant reservior is right next to the turbo on my 6.5. With a flash point of only 225°F, that's way too low to be in an engine compartment. The cooling advantages are not worth the risk compared to the lives of my family members. I'm going to switch to another coolant, and am sorry I ever recomended it to anybody.
 
Boy, was I wrong! Evans said it's not dangerous, but it IS!
"Holy shit" was a good first impression.

The following is copy/pasted directly from the Evans MSDS (MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET )page.
http://www.evanscooling.com/download...MSDS NPG.pdf
SECTION 7 – FIRE FIGHTING INFORMATION
FLASH POINT (Method Used) 225°F FLAMMABLE LIMITS lower = 2.6% upper = 12.5%
EXTINGUISHING MEDIA water fog, foam, dry chemical

SPECIAL FIRE FIGHTING PROCEDURES Keep fire-exposed containers cool with water fog. Wear SCBA and full turnout gear as recommended by NFPA.
UNUSUAL FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARDS None expected under normal storage and handling conditions. However, failing engine components such as cracked exhaust header, leaking ignition spark, or abnormally hot engine part with temperature above flash or autoignition point can cause product to burn. Avoid spills in engine compartment.

SECTION 15 – REGULATORY INFORMATION
COMPONENT INFORMATION
00057-55-6 Propylene Glycol >99%
Water <1%- - - - - - Proprietary Corrosion Inhibitor Package <1%
________________________________________________________

The coolant reservior is right next to the turbo on my 6.5. With a flash point of only 225°F, that's way too low to be in an engine compartment. The cooling advantages are not worth the risk compared to the lives of my family members. I'm going to switch to another coolant, and am sorry I ever recomended it to anybody.


I think you are over reacting a little bit?

Greg
 
Imagine a front end collision where it pukes this stuff all over the turbo, manifolds, and everything else which can run easily at 900-1000df as our pyro gauges show.

Will it ignite?


How about all the fuel fuel in the lines and filter that could rupture and spray fuel all over. Fuel has a 160* flash point. Why isn't anyone worried about that?
But then again to each his own. I think I have a greater chance of getting struck by lightning.

Greg
 
How about all the fuel fuel in the lines and filter that could rupture and spray fuel all over. Fuel has a 160* flash point. Why isn't anyone worried about that?
But then again to each his own. I think I have a greater chance of getting struck by lightning.

Greg

+2, and transmission fluid also has a low flashpoint, hence why GM had to use locking dipsticks to stop the oil from blowing out and catching fire, hence why you saw black spots on steep hills from tranny failures, :eek:
 
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How about all the fuel fuel in the lines and filter that could rupture and spray fuel all over. Fuel has a 160* flash point. Why isn't anyone worried about that?
But then again to each his own. I think I have a greater chance of getting struck by lightning.

Greg

Well, a front end collision could yield in 7 gallons all over the place. The diesel fuel is not only very limited compared, but also has safety devices in place to stop it from spewing.

A fair comparison would be mounting your fuel tank where your radiator is. Would you do that?

I'm just feeding the fire playing devil's advocate here... but still.
 
Well, a front end collision could yield in 7 gallons all over the place. The diesel fuel is not only very limited compared, but also has safety devices in place to stop it from spewing.

A fair comparison would be mounting your fuel tank where your radiator is. Would you do that?

I'm just feeding the fire playing devil's advocate here... but still.

A/C freon is flammable, thats mounted up front too.
 
A/C freon is flammable, thats mounted up front too.

Yep....

Like I said, i'm just playing devil's advocate here... On the other side now..

Can't be too bad or the government would mandate it for unsafe use. They woulnd't allow a gasoline based a/f go through for example.
 
Well, a front end collision could yield in 7 gallons all over the place. The diesel fuel is not only very limited compared, but also has safety devices in place to stop it from spewing.

A fair comparison would be mounting your fuel tank where your radiator is. Would you do that?

I'm just feeding the fire playing devil's advocate here... but still.

No safety devise that I'm aware of other than a roll over valve in the tank. If a low pressure line breaks it will keep flowing until the key is shut off. If a passenger side injector return line breaks which I have seen many it will make a real big mess and the turbo is next to it. I know I won't loose sleep of any of it. As you say if it wasn't safe then we wouldn't have it.

Greg
 
No safety devise that I'm aware of other than a roll over valve in the tank. If a low pressure line breaks it will keep flowing until the key is shut off. If a passenger side injector return line breaks which I have seen many it will make a real big mess and the turbo is next to it. I know I won't loose sleep of any of it. As you say if it wasn't safe then we wouldn't have it.

Greg

Yes and no, I agree it seems safe and there are way more worse things to worry about but I wouldn't count on so called safe products being safe, we can lose track on supposedly safe stuff that got removed or we still use with massive/dire warning, :eek:
 
I just got back from 3 days at Scripps rehab. It's a program for brain injury, one of the best in the country. 3 days a week is all I can handle. Don't feel sorry for me, I'm glad to be alive. I am more careful, or fearful than I was before (PTSD?).
I'm thinking I may be over reacting, and I recognise I am not dealing with the same cards I had as an engineer for 23 years. Evans IS being banned by the USA FAA in aircraft. FAA's German counterpart banned it years ago. It's banned at Bonneville now, and the move seems to be growing in that direction. There are many companies that sell PG heat transfer liquid, at about the same price as Evans, for use in other industries. The MSDS sheets are very specific to the intended use. Protocol FG is an example; it shows NO flash point, but recomend mixing with ionized water for use. FG has a larger additive package than Evans, 6% versus 1% IIRC. Apples to apples, propylene glycol (PG) is a better coolant than ethylene glycol (EG), isn't as toxic (it's used as a food additive). Like I said before, I don't sell it, and I add, I don't want to cause harm to anybody in any way.
Thanks for putting up with me,
Dave
 
I just got back from 3 days at Scripps rehab. It's a program for brain injury, one of the best in the country. 3 days a week is all I can handle. Don't feel sorry for me, I'm glad to be alive. I am more careful, or fearful than I was before (PTSD?).
I'm thinking I may be over reacting, and I recognise I am not dealing with the same cards I had as an engineer for 23 years. Evans IS being banned by the USA FAA in aircraft. FAA's German counterpart banned it years ago. It's banned at Bonneville now, and the move seems to be growing in that direction. There are many companies that sell PG heat transfer liquid, at about the same price as Evans, for use in other industries. The MSDS sheets are very specific to the intended use. Protocol FG is an example; it shows NO flash point, but recomend mixing with ionized water for use. FG has a larger additive package than Evans, 6% versus 1% IIRC. Apples to apples, propylene glycol (PG) is a better coolant than ethylene glycol (EG), isn't as toxic (it's used as a food additive). Like I said before, I don't sell it, and I add, I don't want to cause harm to anybody in any way.
Thanks for putting up with me,
Dave

Being band by FAA is totally wrong. Not sure where you got information but all you need to do is call Evans Cooling at 888-990-2665. Also Evans is NOT flammable. Combustible yes under certain conditions. Also Rotax has recommended its use for a long time and that has not changed. Please let me know where you got the info and I will be sure they get the right info.
Yes we sell it and I don't want anyone hurt either. But I do have the facts on my side with company info to back it.
Greg
 
flammable
1. capable of being easily ignited and of burning quickly

com·bus·ti·ble
1. capable of combustion

From Webster itself. Of course it all depends on what you think the meaning of "is" really is by Bill Clinton.

Greg
 
SNAFU! . . . From the FAA, 2009; effective July 17, 2009
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...0?OpenDocument
"It has been found that the coolant liquid EVANS NPG + is a flammable fluid. The engine liquid cooling system of the affected Aeromot aircrafts is not designed to operate with flammable liquids. Therefore, there is an unacceptable engine fire risk associated with the use of Evans NPG + fluid.
The MCAI (mandatory continuing airworthiness information) requires replacement of the EVANS NPG + coolant liquid, application of new red lines on the engine cylinder head temperature gauge, replacement of the engine radiator cap, and insertion of information into the airplane flight manual (AFM). We are issuing this AD to require actions to correct the unsafe condition on these products. "

http://www.stemme.de/daten/d/service...1a_easa_ad.pdf

Apparently, the Germans knew about this back in 2006..
See the attached links. I included them in the post 7-28-2009 11:26PM.

I just now did my own unscientific test; I stuck a peice of rolled up paper towel into the Evans coolant in my 6.5's reservior. I immediately proceeded to the kitchen stove to put it into direct propane gas flame, on 'high'. It did not burst into flame, in fact I held it in the flame until the heat evaporated enough at the tip on the paper to light it on fire, then removed it fron the flame. The Evans appeared to extinguish the flame, and the burnt tip of the paper did not smolder.

Of course, everything will burn if heated enough.
 
See the attached links. I included them in the post 7-28-2009 11:26PM.

I just now did my own unscientific test; I stuck a peice of rolled up paper towel into the Evans coolant in my 6.5's reservior. I immediately proceeded to the kitchen stove to put it into direct propane gas flame, on 'high'. It did not burst into flame, in fact I held it in the flame until the heat evaporated enough at the tip on the paper to light it on fire, then removed it fron the flame. The Evans appeared to extinguish the flame, and the burnt tip of the paper did not smolder.

Of course, everything will burn if heated enough.



First off the links don't work and second just look at this line "We are issuing this AD to require actions to correct the unsafe condition on these products." Since when does the FAA put out ads to take care of safety issues? Evan says the claims are not true and I talked with them today about it. Also Rotex still says to use it. SO don't you think if Rotex says its OK to use it that your info might be bogus? Until these claims can be proven by official FAA docs I'm not going to worry about it.

Greg

Greg
 
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