Homemade Water Injection Kit

[n8in8or]

In about a month I think I'll be ready to start putting together a water injection kit for my Tahoe. I'm doing this for 2 reasons: 1) to make the air more dense so I can better burn all the fuel my IP is putting out and 2) so I can keep my temperatures (EGT and ECT) in check when I'm towing. I'm starting the thread now so I can share what I'm thinking and have the ideas vetted by you guys that have knowledge and first-hand experience on this subject. Take a look and let me know what you think.

Pump
@FellowTraveler turned me on to a 1000psi 12v pump a while ago. The high pressure of a system like this should make an even finer mist out of the nozzles.
http://www.saferwholesale.com/DC-12...0.6&gpla=pla&gclid=CPeQtoK1pckCFdgVgQod5uMFDA

Control
Stage 1
I'm planning a 2-stage system. I want the 1st stage to kick in at a boost level just above normal highway cruising boost so I'm not sucking water while driving down the highway, yet not so high that it can't get in front of high temps before they get too high. Also so I can get some benefit from denser air sooner in my boost curve. I am going to accomplish that through a simple adjustable hobbs switch.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honeywell-H...ash=item3cfc51ddfb:g:AI8AAOSwbqpT2paP&vxp=mtr
Or I may run an electronic control for this stage. Something like this that has a built in external control.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BFF7UO8/?tag=jhuntlink-20

Stage 2
I want the 2nd stage to kick in at either a higher boost level OR a preset EGT level. I found this electronic control that can control an external control from 2 different channels. I think it will be slick at not too terrible a cost.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JXUVEMQ/?tag=jhuntlink-20

Reservoir
I found an aluminum water tank on Amazon that will fit in the space between the rocker and the frame. Since it's aluminum it will be more durable in an exterior location than a plastic one. It has a 5 gallon capacity which is hopefully enough for normal usage. I will run a tube into the rear wheelwell for refills. I would be nice to add a water level sensor of some sort as well so I know when I'm getting close to being out of water without finding out the hard way.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002B91NAE/?tag=jhuntlink-20


Here are where the questions start:
Tubing
Any thoughts on what tubing to use for a 1000psi system?

Nozzles
It looks like Cooling Mist has some nice nozzles but they run a lower pressure system. I was thinking about calling them to see what their nozzles would work like in a 1000psi system, but any input here is welcome.

Nozzle Sizing
I'm guessing Cooling Mist (or another vendor) could help with this as well, but any input here is welcome as well. Rough numbers for sizing I think would be having Stage 1 sized for 200 horsepower and Stage 2 sized for the additional 150-200 horsepower. Thoughts?

Nozzle Placement
The easy place for these is in my homemade upper intake, but I don't know if that's optimal. I kind of like the idea of having them plumbed in the floor of the lower intake plenum pointing up against the incoming airstream, but I don't know yet if I have enough clearance between that and the IP lines. Any input here is also very welcome.

Here's a picture of my setup for reference. I'll try to get a picture made with labeled locations so nozzle positions can be clearly and easily discussed. It's a pretty short intake run, so not too many places to choose from.


Let me know what your thoughts are, thanks!

 

[Will L.]

Just a simple fuel gauge for the water tank. Junkyard action.

Are you saying have nozzles on the bottom of the intake runners? If so, why? I would think you want them easily accessible.

 

[n8in8or]

I was thinking nozzles in the bottom of the intake plenum, not the runners. The idea being that if the mist was shooting against the intake air that it would mix better. Is that dumb reasoning? Yes it would be nice if they were more accessible for sure, I'm just weighing all options right now and trying to analyze function of each option so the best (or best compromise) can be selected. Is nozzle placement very important for getting the mist to distribute properly? If not it would be really nice to just throw them in the upper intake plate because they could be easily serviced and it would be easy to pop the upper intake off to machine the holes for the nozzles.

 

[Natrex]

Hi Nate,
First post after reading you Moose pump thread (impressive). I've also started assembling pieces for a home made WMI system for my 93 K3500. The cheapest nozzles I've found are here
https://hydro-gardens.com/product/monarch-misting-nozzles-m-5-6w405/.

Here's some other other things you may want to consider, if you were running the factory upper intake for a DS4 motor then you could use the IAT sensor and MAP outputs. These could feed into an Arduino with an optical relay to control the system.

Mine is going to be a simpler than that to start with using a Hobbs switch but a little different from the one you posted
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SAPJSBO/?tag=jhuntlink-20

Good luck!

 

[n8in8or]

Hi Nate,
First post after reading you Moose pump thread (impressive). I've also started assembling pieces for a home made WMI system for my 93 K3500. The cheapest nozzles I've found are here
https://hydro-gardens.com/product/monarch-misting-nozzles-m-5-6w405/.

Here's some other other things you may want to consider, if you were running the factory upper intake for a DS4 motor then you could use the IAT sensor and MAP outputs. These could feed into an Arduino with an optical relay to control the system.

Mine is going to be a simpler than that to start with using a Hobbs switch but a little different from the one you posted
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SAPJSBO/?tag=jhuntlink-20

Good luck!

Hello, thanks and welcome to The Truck Stop!

I like that pressure switch you shared, the only problem with it (for my plans) is that it doesn't go high enough. But I bet there is a similar one that does so I'll have to do some more searching. Thanks!

I really like your Arduino idea! I could see that being a fun little project making your own controller. I've read about the Radpberry Pi in Popular Mechanics before but never thought about a real use for one. Maybe someday when I'm bored (HA) I'll give that a whirl!

I think I've stumbled on those nozzles before. The problem I see with those is that since they only have threads on one end you'd actually have to thread them in from the inside of the intake, which would be cumbersome at best and maybe even downright impossible since you'd also have to attach the water supply somehow too.

I appreciate you sharing and when you make your kit, post a thread on it!! It's always fun seeing what people are doing and coming up with. I hope you do the Arduino!!

 

[Will L.]

Welcome Natrex! Start up a thread and tell us about your toy(s)!

 

[n8in8or]

Hey @Will L. do you know if that aluminum water tank would react negatively if I was to ever put some methanol in it? I know I could Google that, but I like picking your brain. Besides it's good for you, I promise! It keeps you sharp.

 

[Will L.]

No good. Methonal, ethonal, etc. no alcohols in aluminum. It eats the aluminum and makes the alcohol give you a sore stomach.

I was thinking your running water only when i saw the aluminum tank. HDPE is your friend. Steel is your friend. I'm your friend, but I'm not holding your go fast juice for you.

 

[n8in8or]

No good. Methonal, ethonal, etc. no alcohols in aluminum. It eats the aluminum and makes the alcohol give you a sore stomach.

I was thinking your running water only when i saw the aluminum tank. HDPE is your friend. Steel is your friend. I'm your friend, but I'm not holding your go fast juice for you.

I knew I could count on you (except as a cup holder). I only PLAN on running water, but you guys will tempt me to run some meth in it, and since I'm a nice guy I'll do it.....and then there I'll be. Ok, back to plastic it is. Thanks!

 

[Will L.]

If you were to do it once in a while, and it didnt stay in the tank for a week, youd be ok. But, if you go and get hooked on the stuff, then you need to swap the tank.

Btw, the joke about the alcohol making your stomach sick- Back when alcohol was being sold for fuel there was a serious problem with people buying pump fuel and drinking it for cheaper than they were the liquor and unky sam not getting his tax cut. So they would mix in a little gasoline (like 0.001%) with the pure grain alcohol so people would puke if they dank it. Hence the term Gasohol. Created here in Vegas by a guy I worked for that's half owns Rebel gas stations. He's also the guy that taught me the banana peel in the worn out manual trans trick to quite them down to sell it and rip off a new buyer. Yeah- great guy!

 

[dangerousdave]

If you were to do it once in a while, and it didnt stay in the tank for a week, youd be ok. But, if you go and get hooked on the stuff, then you need to swap the tank.

Btw, the joke about the alcohol making your stomach sick- Back when alcohol was being sold for fuel there was a serious problem with people buying pump fuel and drinking it for cheaper than they were the liquor and unky sam not getting his tax cut. So they would mix in a little gasoline (like 0.001%) with the pure grain alcohol so people would puke if they dank it. Hence the term Gasohol. Created here in Vegas by a guy I worked for that's half owns Rebel gas stations. He's also the guy that taught me the banana peel in the worn out manual trans trick to quite them down to sell it and rip off a new buyer. Yeah- great guy!

Uncooked oatmeal. Good for worn out diff. Too.

 

[n8in8or]

I've had an idea regarding nozzle placement: I was thinking that I could remove the silicone elbow between the intercooler and intake and use a metal elbow with silicone connectors instead. This would allow me to thread the nozzles into the elbow post-intercooler. My initial thought was to do a steel elbow with a band of steel welded to it to make it thicker for drilling and tapping. I chose steel because I can weld that at home. However the more I thought about it the less I liked steel - mostly due to the wet environment. I could paint the inside of the tube, but then I have the risk of paint flaking off into the engine - no bueno. So that means aluminum. I did some searching and found one I'm happy with....it's cast so it should be thick enough for drilling/threading directly. And it's a reasonable cost. http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchan...Product_Code=EB300-90-CAST&Category_Code=CSAL

So that leaves nozzle placement. I'm feeling partial to putting the nozzles on the inside radius of the elbow. As I envision air running through the elbow I feel like it would be more disturbed by disruptions in the inside surface of the elbow if they were on the outside radius. I could perhaps do the mid point of the tube, but in my mind the spray going up into the air from the inside of the radius works. Am I crazy thinking this?

I'm also thinking about just buying a kit rather than engineering one. Since that 1000psi pump alone is $250, and when I add up controllers and a solenoid I'm close to the cost of a kit. It won't have the high pressure, but it works out of the box and the controller is a more manageable size....and with functionalities I wouldn't have like linear flow of the injection rather than discreet stages. I can't imagine the 1000psi system being worth THAT much power, but maybe? I have plenty of other projects to work on, so if I can just buy a kit and install it, that could be worth it to me right now. I can always try making a 1000psi kit in the future. I'm looking at both Devil's Own and Cooling Mist. Cooling Mist has a nice 2 stage kit, but it's kind of pricey so I'm weighing options right now. Any thoughts??

 

[schiker]

I wondered about where the velocity is highest or lowest is better. I don't know if it really matters a whole lot again I don't know but here are some thoughts I have. Lets hear any others thoughts.

I think have a bung or something added so the nozzle will be out of the flow mostly if possible and have it just after the elbow on inside so its in the eddy of the elbow and sprays across the velocity "lines" from low to high. I am thinking the fine stuff will get sheared easily in the high velocity and more liquid part of stream near nozzle will be in a bit slower velocity to have more time to heat up and vaporize.

 

[schiker]

I don't know about about steel vs aluminum. The head is cast and the screws are steel so is your upper plenum. Aluminum would be be better I think.

I also thought about having a bung added in end tank of water cooler and have it angled to aim down the hose as much as feasible. Maybe what it would cost to have someone else weld the bung might be as cheap as buying new elbows etc.

I kinda looked for a metal cobra head elbow but did not see one easily. Also did not see flow through cobra head if it has the same eddy and you could just add a riser to your upper plenum and go there on just after inside of bend then elbow with a silicone cobra????

What about having it at back of elbow spraying back up stream in the oncoming pipe. Imagine a Tee with nozzle in a dead ended tee inline with hose from IC. Again have a bung added so nozzle is somewhat flush and sprays into oncoming velocity like you were thinking coming up from bottom of plenum. ?????

 

[FellowTraveler]

The finer the fog the more heat it pulls from the air charge, when doing calculations you must minus friction loss in the intake path, actual boost (meaning whatever is on your gauge plus whatever your bio-pressure is) then how much flow the nozzles put out. Higher psi allows you to use much less water when using fogger nozzles.

This link will help while dedicated to motorcycles the same applies in other applications: http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

 

[Will L.]

Schiker, idk how it translates here, but in the mixing systems on the stuff I played on the always did it where there was less turbulence and the greatest pressure differential. Iirc it was a case of the cross flow disrupted the spray of the nozzles.

FT, I remember reading that before about the bike guys. I met a couple of those guys at Bonneville, nice guys to deal with someone just playing lookie lou (me).
Also, did you catch this part from that article: "...At Bonneville we saw a severe fire situation in a streamliner that was using a supposedly better engine coolant that, when spewed out into the engine compartment, it ignited and torched the driver's hands, helmet and the liner's engine compartment. ...."
I know side track but ive been thinking a heat exchanger of Evans to water- then just water to the heater core. That would make me feel safer.

 

[FellowTraveler]

Schiker, idk how it translates here, but in the mixing systems on the stuff I played on the always did it where there was less turbulence and the greatest pressure differential. Iirc it was a case of the cross flow disrupted the spray of the nozzles.

FT, I remember reading that before about the bike guys. I met a couple of those guys at Bonneville, nice guys to deal with someone just playing lookie lou (me).
Also, did you catch this part from that article: "...At Bonneville we saw a severe fire situation in a streamliner that was using a supposedly better engine coolant that, when spewed out into the engine compartment, it ignited and torched the driver's hands, helmet and the liner's engine compartment. ...."
I know side track but ive been thinking a heat exchanger of Evans to water- then just water to the heater core. That would make me feel safer.

I hear ya about the coolant and fire the isolating can be done via a heat ex-changer and aux pump, on another note RB racing build big power 2 cyl bikes ORCA up to 600hp + crazy rides.........

 

[schiker]

Clipped...

Schiker, idk how it translates here, but in the mixing systems on the stuff I played on the always did it where there was less turbulence and the greatest pressure differential. Iirc it was a case of the cross flow disrupted the spray of the nozzles.

Yeah, I was wondering about that and pictured a bung and recessed nozzle firing from the eddy of the elbow as might be good.

After your post and the website FT posted the end tank (air part of the IC) might be a good low velocity area and has the longest path to disperse and evaporate. Still mixingly turbulent but not higher velocity until it necks down in hose connection. What about a taller bung welded in the IC end tank so the spray is good and developed entering the end tank???.

I wonder what the high pressure injection looks like? The devils own and cooling mist injectors appear to be a 6" or more spray column/flare. But that's out in the open atmosphere I don't know how it evaporates?? I kinda assume it is somewhat analogous maybe to what flame front looks like from Diesel injection?

 

[Will L.]

I Would try talking to the different mfr and get their input on it. I have always been willing to pay more $ to a company with better service for the same part. Depending on feedback from the companies would be the answer. Im sure they have done some descent testing to determine optimum situations. Being able to send pics/ info to a mfr that would give their best suggestions couldnt hurt.

In the end, it will probably be up to you to experiment a bit with placement to see what gives you the best results based on what matters to you. Like the motorcycle people, they care about "clack clack clack" of a pump, I could care less. All i care about is drop heat, forget the potential power gains- but you might want the extra umph and shaving your 0-60 time. Thats why i was saying make them easily accessible.

 

[n8in8or]

Thanks for weighing in guys! Lots of good thoughts here. I was busy with family all day so I'm just reading now. I'm gonna ponder on these a bit then respond. Cheers