Homemade Water Injection Kit

[Will L.]

Oh yeah, on the hoss if you make your own kit, go toma hydraulic hose shop and have them make a pressure washer hose. There are some thpes of hydraulic hoses with reusable ends so you could cut hose to lemght and thread on the ends. Imo get somehong available to you local, so if there is change or problems you can deal with it easier.

On the nozzle placement, how much room is there in the plate you made the the last 90 attaches to directly on top of the intake plenum? The boosted air is expanding right there coming out if the hose and dispursing into the 8 runners. The expansion of air is where the flow will create a small natural cooling effect from it expanding there, seems like the perfect spot to me. Maybe 2 nozzles, 1 forward and one rear both shooting slightly inward?

 

[FellowTraveler]

Clipped...


Yeah, I was wondering about that and pictured a bung and recessed nozzle firing from the eddy of the elbow as might be good.

After your post and the website FT posted the end tank (air part of the IC) might be a good low velocity area and has the longest path to disperse and evaporate. Still mixingly turbulent but not higher velocity until it necks down in hose connection. What about a taller bung welded in the IC end tank so the spray is good and developed entering the end tank???.

I wonder what the high pressure injection looks like? The devils own and cooling mist injectors appear to be a 6" or more spray column/flare. But that's out in the open atmosphere I don't know how it evaporates?? I kinda assume it is somewhat analogous maybe to what flame front looks like from Diesel injection?

Fogger nozzle will give best results but require good filtration and only distilled water.

 

[FellowTraveler]

I wondered about where the velocity is highest or lowest is better. I don't know if it really matters a whole lot again I don't know but here are some thoughts I have. Lets hear any others thoughts.

I think have a bung or something added so the nozzle will be out of the flow mostly if possible and have it just after the elbow on inside so its in the eddy of the elbow and sprays across the velocity "lines" from low to high. I am thinking the fine stuff will get sheared easily in the high velocity and more liquid part of stream near nozzle will be in a bit slower velocity to have more time to heat up and vaporize.

We know the use of cobra-head elbows will reduce those flow losses, as nozzles go the further from the intake the more heat the water will absorb, the high pressure driving the water will make for finer fogging effect = more heat absorption.

 

[Will L.]

Warning after 3am posting so look out...

For the water being clean:
The company is was working with the plastics to fuel, a couple of us started working on a water cleaning system. Heavy metals/minerals don't all come out from distilling.
I walked away from that project, but it was found using electrolisys with aluminum plates as anodes and cathodes on a alternating circuit design that traded which was anode and cathode 60-100 times a minute, and running as much dc power through it as possible while trying to limit the hydrogen production to a minumum (sorry hydrogen fuel guys) was excellent at dropping out minerals and metals to the point that very heavy calcium laden tap water here was no longer electrically conductive. In other words so clean it is unhealthy for humans to drink.

There are other similar products on the market, but none to the level of what was done here. MIT was closer to what our project was. I think in 2 years MIT will surpass curent testing. Anyways, I think looking into a unit like that might be beter than buying or home brewing distilled water, even the ones currently available. Just process it along with the distilling for fastest, most affordable results.

 

[FellowTraveler]

Consider, for those of you who can "recovering condensed water from you AC evaporator to use for high pressure spraying at the cooling stack and/or aux coolers as needed" using larger cone nozzles.....

 

[n8in8or]

I wondered about where the velocity is highest or lowest is better. I don't know if it really matters a whole lot again I don't know but here are some thoughts I have. Lets hear any others thoughts.

I think have a bung or something added so the nozzle will be out of the flow mostly if possible and have it just after the elbow on inside so its in the eddy of the elbow and sprays across the velocity "lines" from low to high. I am thinking the fine stuff will get sheared easily in the high velocity and more liquid part of stream near nozzle will be in a bit slower velocity to have more time to heat up and vaporize.

That was a great thought looking up diagrams of flow through an elbow. That's very thought provoking.

I don't know about about steel vs aluminum. The head is cast and the screws are steel so is your upper plenum. Aluminum would be be better I think.

I also thought about having a bung added in end tank of water cooler and have it angled to aim down the hose as much as feasible. Maybe what it would cost to have someone else weld the bung might be as cheap as buying new elbows etc.

I kinda looked for a metal cobra head elbow but did not see one easily. Also did not see flow through cobra head if it has the same eddy and you could just add a riser to your upper plenum and go there on just after inside of bend then elbow with a silicone cobra????

What about having it at back of elbow spraying back up stream in the oncoming pipe. Imagine a Tee with nozzle in a dead ended tee inline with hose from IC. Again have a bung added so nozzle is somewhat flush and sprays into oncoming velocity like you were thinking coming up from bottom of plenum. ?????

Good thoughts on ferrous vs. non-ferrous. You're right about my upper intake and the cylinder heads being steel and iron, hmmmm.... Dunno, I'm still not in love with the idea of the place where the nozzles are shooting water out being ferrous. Plus I already have some thickness from cast aluminum too so it should be ready to drill/tap as-is. I thought about putting it in the end take of the intercooler, but it isn't a very deep space. Plus I'd hate to mess with a purchased part like that (which I know sounds dumb, I just worry about messing it up), and also I was really hoping to have something I could do basically the same day and maybe even have modified so I can just bolt it on in place of something else. I do like the idea of having the mist there, that's for sure, I just feel like the execution will be kind of tricky for this project. I like your idea of it being in the bottom of the elbow, especially after looking at those diagrams you attached. And oh yeah, I was planning on making the nozzle(s) flush by being very deliberate with how deep I tapped the holes in the elbow.

The finer the fog the more heat it pulls from the air charge, when doing calculations you must minus friction loss in the intake path, actual boost (meaning whatever is on your gauge plus whatever your bio-pressure is) then how much flow the nozzles put out. Higher psi allows you to use much less water when using fogger nozzles.

This link will help while dedicated to motorcycles the same applies in other applications: http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

Shoot I forgot about these guys, I've gone to that site a couple times when trying to learn about higher pressure systems. There kits seem a little crude control-wise, and I don't how much you're paying for that pump they developed, but I should probably put their kits in the running for options.

At first I was confused about your comment regarding higher pressure allowing you to use less water. I was thinking about it in the pure pressure v. flow relationship........but I think I see why. With higher pressure the water will atomize more. This higher atomization should give more surface area of water present, and this surface area is what does the work. Is that right? It would be nice to use less water...

Clipped...


Yeah, I was wondering about that and pictured a bung and recessed nozzle firing from the eddy of the elbow as might be good.

After your post and the website FT posted the end tank (air part of the IC) might be a good low velocity area and has the longest path to disperse and evaporate. Still mixingly turbulent but not higher velocity until it necks down in hose connection. What about a taller bung welded in the IC end tank so the spray is good and developed entering the end tank???.

I wonder what the high pressure injection looks like? The devils own and cooling mist injectors appear to be a 6" or more spray column/flare. But that's out in the open atmosphere I don't know how it evaporates?? I kinda assume it is somewhat analogous maybe to what flame front looks like from Diesel injection?

I worry about a tall bung - it seems like the edges of the cone spray would condense on the inside surface of the bung and turn into droplets.

I Would try talking to the different mfr and get their input on it. I have always been willing to pay more $ to a company with better service for the same part. Depending on feedback from the companies would be the answer. Im sure they have done some descent testing to determine optimum situations. Being able to send pics/ info to a mfr that would give their best suggestions couldnt hurt.

In the end, it will probably be up to you to experiment a bit with placement to see what gives you the best results based on what matters to you. Like the motorcycle people, they care about "clack clack clack" of a pump, I could care less. All i care about is drop heat, forget the potential power gains- but you might want the extra umph and shaving your 0-60 time. Thats why i was saying make them easily accessible.

That's good advice, I should just call some people. I'm really interested in calling RB Racing now.....

Oh yeah, on the hoss if you make your own kit, go toma hydraulic hose shop and have them make a pressure washer hose. There are some thpes of hydraulic hoses with reusable ends so you could cut hose to lemght and thread on the ends. Imo get somehong available to you local, so if there is change or problems you can deal with it easier.

On the nozzle placement, how much room is there in the plate you made the the last 90 attaches to directly on top of the intake plenum? The boosted air is expanding right there coming out if the hose and dispursing into the 8 runners. The expansion of air is where the flow will create a small natural cooling effect from it expanding there, seems like the perfect spot to me. Maybe 2 nozzles, 1 forward and one rear both shooting slightly inward?

Nice idea on hose.

There's a bunch of room in the upper plate since I offset the intake tube on the plate. Good point on that being a place of expansion, hmm. I could possibly angle them in to direct the spray, but it may be tricky due to the plate being 3/8" thick. Not impossible, just tricky with the tools available to me. I'm kind of wondering about drilling/tapping the plenum of the lower intake at the back too - since I don't have an FMU back there it's pretty easy to access. I think it would give a good shot to the middle of the plenum and the manifold is thinner than my upper intake so the thickness wouldn't get in the way of the nozzle spray.

Fogger nozzle will give best results but require good filtration and only distilled water.

Oh yes, only distilled water.

Warning after 3am posting so look out...

For the water being clean:
The company is was working with the plastics to fuel, a couple of us started working on a water cleaning system. Heavy metals/minerals don't all come out from distilling.
I walked away from that project, but it was found using electrolisys with aluminum plates as anodes and cathodes on a alternating circuit design that traded which was anode and cathode 60-100 times a minute, and running as much dc power through it as possible while trying to limit the hydrogen production to a minumum (sorry hydrogen fuel guys) was excellent at dropping out minerals and metals to the point that very heavy calcium laden tap water here was no longer electrically conductive. In other words so clean it is unhealthy for humans to drink.

There are other similar products on the market, but none to the level of what was done here. MIT was closer to what our project was. I think in 2 years MIT will surpass curent testing. Anyways, I think looking into a unit like that might be beter than buying or home brewing distilled water, even the ones currently available. Just process it along with the distilling for fastest, most affordable results.

We're gonna need a bigger boat.......

 

[n8in8or]

Consider, for those of you who can "recovering condensed water from you AC evaporator to use for high pressure spraying at the cooling stack and/or aux coolers as needed" using larger cone nozzles.....

Interesting thought. It would be nice to do some external fogging of various coolers.

I found this video the other day. Gale got crazy with all the misting on this machine, but I thought the most innovative thing was the misting of the brakes! Very cool stuff (pun not necessarily intended).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96qlW8-vgYs

 

[n8in8or]

Fogger nozzle will give best results but require good filtration and only distilled water.

I just thought about this more.....Did I overlook that there are different nozzle styles? Are there "misting" nozzles and "fogging" nozzles?

 

[FellowTraveler]

I just thought about this more.....Did I overlook that there are different nozzle styles? Are there "misting" nozzles and "fogging" nozzles?

Misting become foggers at high pressures.

 

[FellowTraveler]

Interesting thought. It would be nice to do some external fogging of various coolers.

I found this video the other day. Gale got crazy with all the misting on this machine, but I thought the most innovative thing was the misting of the brakes! Very cool stuff (pun not necessarily intended).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96qlW8-vgYs

YEP, they needed to mist the brakes for sure!

 

[FellowTraveler]

At first I was confused about your comment regarding higher pressure allowing you to use less water. I was thinking about it in the pure pressure v. flow relationship........but I think I see why. With higher pressure the water will atomize more. This higher atomization should give more surface area of water present, and this surface area is what does the work. Is that right? It would be nice to use less water..........

Yep, you got it..........

 

[Will L.]

Plus maybe a misting system for in the cab on those warm summer days...

Anyone notice Gales system is injecting pre Cac on that rig? Methods change on dedicated race toys.

On the motor scooter pump: keep in mind they have to put a lot of value on size and power draw that is not an issue in trucks, but definately talk to them.

 

[n8in8or]

Plus maybe a misting system for in the cab on those warm summer days...

Anyone notice Gales system is injecting pre Cac on that rig? Methods change on dedicated race toys.

On the motor scooter pump: keep in mind they have to put a lot of value on size and power draw that is not an issue in trucks, but definately talk to them.

Huh, nope I didn't notice that. Of course, I peed myself and forgot my name for half an hour when I heard the supercharger whine on that rig, so there's that........

 

[Will L.]

Man that thing sounds mean, huh!?!

Since i cant afford one, I think you need a super charger...

 

[n8in8or]

Man that thing sounds mean, huh!?!

Since i cant afford one, I think you need a super charger...

I've never heard one scream like that before!

I'd love to, but I can't afford to get one of those AND the Mad Max clutched pulley (which of course would be obligatory), so I just don't think it's going to happen.

 

[n8in8or]

In the spirit of speed and ease I had decided to just buy a kit from Cooling Mist this spring and install it. I'm a Craigslist whore so I'm always trolling it for things I don't need. The other night I found something I actually needed! I found a Stage1 Cooling Mist kit that supposedly had never been used and was only $200! It wasn't complete and didn't have all the parts I needed, but it was $575 worth of stuff and included one of their progressive controllers! I picked it up last night and here are a couple pics. I'm going to call Cooling Mist soon to figure out the other parts I should get so I can complete the kit. This should be a nice addition to my setup so I don't melt down while towing and maybe even give me a little more acceleration unloaded - I think I just might have to put some meth in it.