ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
I don't know about others but I'd like to know more on the turbo.
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HE351VE with functional VGT on 1997 6.5L
- Thread starter Chewy1576
- Start date
I'll tell you anything you want to know about the concept, fabrication, install, and use. Personally I think it has been a success. It took a lot of time from when I first decided to go forward with the project to driving it for the first time, about a year and a half. Lots of adapter pieces to fit it to the 6.5L, Quadstar Tuning did an awesome job developing them. The Banshee controller is a great piece of equipment, Steed did a great job with code development to drive the actuator. Sure, there are simpler and just as effective turbo swaps, but I wanted to do something unique. There are others working on using the same turbo, but I believe I'm the first to get it running.
FellowTraveler
Well-Known Member
I'd like to know how BIG is that downpipe?
I believe the elbow and downpipe are 3". Quadstar fabricated the elbow to get from the exhaust housing to the existing downpipe location, then I already had the Diamond Eye downpipe. Space in that location is extremely tight with this setup. The AC dryer had to come out to make room. Heat is also a big issue. I covered both pieces in exhaust wrap and have a blanket on the exhaust housing, but have already had heat issues. I burned a hole in the coolant reservoir because SOMEONE (Me
) did a halfassed job wrapping the elbow and left some exposed. The heat melted a pin hole through the reservoir, spraying coolant all over the engine and making a huge mess.
ak diesel driver
6.5 driver
I guess what I'd really love to see is a write up from start to finish. Letting us know about the issues you had to overcome along the way.
My brother's vvt on his Cummins is sooted up and stuck. I talked to Chris about some coatings to help with the sticking.
I'd think ideally the vvt would be the best of both worlds, big and small turbos.
My brother's vvt on his Cummins is sooted up and stuck. I talked to Chris about some coatings to help with the sticking.
I'd think ideally the vvt would be the best of both worlds, big and small turbos.
They do get sooted up and jam. The floating ring in the exhaust housing should be able to move with the nozzle so it can move in and out of the exhaust stream freely. Heating them up (getting EGTs above 1000 degrees for a period of time) is supposed to help burn the buildup out and keep them clean.
snarl95
Well-Known Member
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I should clarify, the first application using the electronic VGT actuator on a 6.5L. They put the turbo on the engine, but are using a spring on the VGT nozzle arm.
Will L.
Well-Known Member
If you can explain about controlling the turbo.
Like the one in that video- it’s advantages and disadvantages then how yours is controlled and it’s advantages and disadvantages.
And what would be the nearest comparable turbos that aren’t variable- like as low as gm4 up to hx40 or something?
What about db2 vs ds4? How much is lost to the controller from just external inputs but not having the ecm to function, just sensors added to feed the controller?
Like the one in that video- it’s advantages and disadvantages then how yours is controlled and it’s advantages and disadvantages.
And what would be the nearest comparable turbos that aren’t variable- like as low as gm4 up to hx40 or something?
What about db2 vs ds4? How much is lost to the controller from just external inputs but not having the ecm to function, just sensors added to feed the controller?
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My impression of the spring actuated VGT is it would behave just like a spring actuated wastegate. The engine pushes exhaust through the turbo until the pressure overcomes the spring pressure on the nozzle and it opens up. I'm not sure about how well it works or how consistent the operation in, but it's on the engine and doing something.
Utilizing the electronic actuator gives a lot more precise and consistent function of the VGT. It all boils down to the relationship between drive (exhaust) and boost pressures. The controller takes drive and boost pressure readings and drives the actuator to ratio set point. For example, I have it set right now to maintain a 1:1 drive to boost ratio at all times. As soon as the controller sees 1 psi of boost pressure, it will move the VGT nozzle in the exhaust stream to achieve 1 psi of drive pressure. At 10 psi of boost, there is 10 psi of drive pressure, and so on. It can also be given a table of drive to boost ratios to target. At low boost, it can have a higher ratio to spool up the turbo. Then as boost builds and pressure increases, the ratio can be brought down to a much more efficient set point (1:1 or lower is ideal). I have also ran it where I target a 0.8 or 0.9 to 1 drive to boost ratio, where there is more pressure on the intake side than the exhaust side. This helps scavenging in the cylinders when both valves are slightly open between the exhaust and intake strokes because the greater pressure on the intake side helps force the remaining combustion gasses out of the cylinder before the exhaust valve closes. The GM-8 turbo by comparison has a fixed 2.5 to 1 drive to boost ratio. Effectively, at 10 psi of boost pressure, there is 25 psi of drive pressure on the exhaust side. The greater the exhaust pressure, the higher the EGT and heat in the cylinders, manifolds, and exhaust housing. This is what essentially kills cylinder heads and head gaskets in 6.5L engines. A more efficient turbo (again, why a 1 to 1 or lower ratio is ideal) relieves this stress and heat build up. This is how you can run 20 plus psi of boost on a stock long block safely.
I believe the compressor side of the HE351 is most similar to the HX40 as far as flow rates is concerned. The exhaust side is like nothing out there because depending on the VGT position, it can be equivalent to anywhere from a 9 cm² to a 25 cm² housing.
As far as the interaction between the ECM and VGT controller, that is going to be all trial and error. Quadstar set me up with a tune with fairly aggressive fueling. I can send the ECM back if I want to have any changes, but I'm pretty happy with it for now. I have been trying different drive to boost ratios to get the most out of the fueling strategy. The setup seems to respond well with high ratio set points at low boost and lower ratios at high boost. The experimenting comes with how quickly that transition can be made to make the best power while keeping EGT down.
I do wish that I could have a TPS input to the controller so that the VGT nozzle would close off the exhaust flow under quick delta TPS to increase boost more proportionally to the rapid increase in fuel. That may be a feature request I could submit.
I do wish that I could have a TPS input to the controller so that the VGT nozzle would close off the exhaust flow under quick delta TPS to increase boost more proportionally to the rapid increase in fuel. That may be a feature request I could submit.
@ak diesel driver, Les, as for the sticking, yes it can be fixed, I haven't run mine yet but have already modified it to stop the trouble, first I bought a new nozzle ring assembly and sent it off and had it "isonite treated" then I coated the assembly, also the housing inside has been coated to prevent any soot from sticking, these steeps will ensure the assembly never sticks. A new assembly has to be purchased anyway due to the old ring has to be cut to get it out..
As for Shawn's description of the turbo it's correct, the difference will be a hot db2 vs ds4 as for fueling levels, and the Banshee controller doesn't talk to any pcm's in our case so it's stand alone.. I think it could talk but it's not needed.
I'm glad Shawn has it working, maybe at some point he will share the data logs, the controller has the ability to log itself as well.. As Shawn stated, other than cost I have always said a correctly controlled vgt would be about as close to perfect as can be had for our motors, they are very programmable for those of us that will tow heavy across a wide range of conditions..
My setup will be a bit different from the ground up but the concept will be close..
And Shawn we would like a video when you get around to it...
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Here is a graph of some data I logged while targeting a 0.8 to 1 ratio. The run was wide open from a stop, until I caught up to traffic. Coincidentally this was also at the same time that the VGT nozzle position went to full closed to try to maintain the ratio. This short run basically proved to me that I need some kind of CAC to provide a more dense air charge and keep this ratio sustainable across a broader range.
Attachments
At the bottom, kinda hard to read. Green is VGT position, blue is boost pressure, red is drive pressure. I wish I had a way to log IAT other than watching the live value on my Scangauge.
I found it, I couldn't see if the first time... thanks
What's interesting to me is that boost peaks at about 17-18 psi under wide open throttle and levels out, drive ratio is maintained below boost pressure, but VGT position keeps climbing. I'm pretty sure I have a good exhaust leak in the crossover pipe as well hurting the results based on this and the exhaust smell in the cab 
. Received the new 2.5" pipe yesterday, just need to find an exhaust shop to modify it to clear the front driveshaft. #liftedtruckproblems
. Received the new 2.5" pipe yesterday, just need to find an exhaust shop to modify it to clear the front driveshaft. #liftedtruckproblems
I also thought that looked strange....
Yes...
The programing, once fully understood, will make going from a interstate driver to interstate tow rig much more simple and the basic motor performance and stress much more practical....
Keep up the good work, I'll be ready this spring to start testing mine on a chassis dyno...
The programing, once fully understood, will make going from a interstate driver to interstate tow rig much more simple and the basic motor performance and stress much more practical....
Keep up the good work, I'll be ready this spring to start testing mine on a chassis dyno...