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Hard To Push Manual Clutch Pedal NV4500

There is a fact of life about clutches. A properly matched clutch disc, pressure plate, and release bearing when assembled, places the clutch fingers in a center of travel position of the spring tension either from the diaphragm type pressure plate or the three or four finger type. As normal wear to the disc assembly occurs, the fingers move away from the pressure plate and further off center. Especially on diaphragm style clutches, the pedal pressure needed to depress the clutch pedal keeps increasing to the point that in some vehicles, the firewall will crack at the pedal mounting, and accelerated pivot ball wear, linkages, transmission input collar, hydraulic components, etc. The clutch grabs further out on release of pedal, and doesn't have as nice a transition. More like an on off switch. The pulsating can be from uneven fingers on pressure plate and possible excess wear on input bearing collar. When fingers are uneven with pressure plate and disc properly installed, the pressure plate needs replaced. Do the disc also, and resurface the flywheel if it has any hard bluish spots. Replace any other worn items while you are at it.
 
chessie 6.5 said:
There is a fact of life about clutches. A properly matched clutch disc, pressure plate, and release bearing when assembled, places the clutch fingers in a center of travel position of the spring tension either from the diaphragm type pressure plate or the three or four finger type. As normal wear to the disc assembly occurs, the fingers move away from the pressure plate and further off center. Especially on diaphragm style clutches, the pedal pressure needed to depress the clutch pedal keeps increasing to the point that in some vehicles, the firewall will crack at the pedal mounting, and accelerated pivot ball wear, linkages, transmission input collar, hydraulic components, etc. The clutch grabs further out on release of pedal, and doesn't have as nice a transition. More like an on off switch. The pulsating can be from uneven fingers on pressure plate and possible excess wear on input bearing collar. When fingers are uneven with pressure plate and disc properly installed, the pressure plate needs replaced. Do the disc also, and resurface the flywheel if it has any hard bluish spots. Replace any other worn items while you are at it.
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No different with 3 finger clutches
 
Okay Guys, I think I might change the clutch also being I think this one has about 100,000 miles on it. I was hoping not to have to pull the bellhousing but being Bison said not to skimp on the pilot bearing I will have to pull the bellhousing anyway.

Now I have more questions. I like the duel mass flywheel. Or at least I have no complaints about it. The flywheel has like 220,000 miles on it and it has been machined down once. Can it be, or would I want it machined again?

I do plow alittle bit in the winter. Other than that I don't really pull much with it other than a 2 place snowmobile trailer. I have been reading about centerforce, South Bend, and luk clutches. I think Luk clutch is a oem gm clutch? Would there be anything bad about buying the oem clutch that came in the truck? Or shoud I buy another brand of clutch?

Thanks Guys.
 
100 k is peanuts on a clutch,i would inspect it closely before chucking 700 bux against it.
But then again it depends how it was used/abused
i got one here with 254 k on it,looks hardly used(the one in the pic)

Cant help on the duall mass,i never seen one.
 
Okay I am on the fence at the moment on what to do as far as replacing the clutch or not. I just showed a guy my snout and he said that should be replaced. The Throw out bearing should also probably be replaced.

He crawled under my truck and looked at the fork and diaphram. He said there is one finger diaphram that is pushed towards the back of the truck approx. 1/32". He said it probably isn't a big deal but if I wanted to try to push it back with a screw driver to see if I could make it match perfect with the others that would be fine. What do you guys think?

Bison, when you said to check the runout do you mean I can start the truck without the transmission in and crawl under it to see how true the diaphram runs? Also take into consideriation that I have the dual mass flywheel.

Being the pilot bearing looks good to me and looks like it has good grease on it yet mabey I would be okay to use it? I am trying to avoid taking the bell housing off. The truck is driven by the wife to work on a daily basis and she has a light foot so mabey I would be okay with the pilot bearing? Arggh I can't make up my mind here guys on what to do.
 
even with the bell housing on you should be able to see the edge of the disc. Measure that and compare to a new one to see how much is worn off.
 
doober said:
Okay I am on the fence at the moment on what to do as far as replacing the clutch or not. I just showed a guy my snout and he said that should be replaced. The Throw out bearing should also probably be replaced.

He crawled under my truck and looked at the fork and diaphram. He said there is one finger diaphram that is pushed towards the back of the truck approx. 1/32". He said it probably isn't a big deal but if I wanted to try to push it back with a screw driver to see if I could make it match perfect with the others that would be fine. What do you guys think?

Bison, when you said to check the runout do you mean I can start the truck without the transmission in and crawl under it to see how true the diaphram runs? Also take into consideriation that I have the dual mass flywheel.

Being the pilot bearing looks good to me and looks like it has good grease on it yet mabey I would be okay to use it? I am trying to avoid taking the bell housing off. The truck is driven by the wife to work on a daily basis and she has a light foot so mabey I would be okay with the pilot bearing? Arggh I can't make up my mind here guys on what to do.
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You'll have a hard time trying to get the tranny back on with the bell housing on the engine.
 
if you are replacing the pilot brg, do not put the brg style back in , you can get the bushing style from napa, The brg is well know for failure and takes the imput shaft out, It will also cause the mainshaft too imput shaft brg to fail inside the trans , That main shaft is not cheap!!! We do not use a brg any more at work way too high of failure rate, the other thing is when you are installing the trans it is very easy to knock the oring (seal) out of that brg style pilot and then dirt and dust gets in there .
when using a bushing make sure too soak in oil over night (there are a oil lite bushing and will suck up the oil and be lube for life. the imput shafts are not to bad a price if you go to a jobber suppler, go to gm and they are very expensive. Last one i got paid around 100.00 (got from the gear center ,pats drive line )
 
ak diesel driver said:
I've never had these years apart. So why cant you use an inspection mirror?
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The bellhousing is closed all the way around.
The only entry is the 4" centre hole where the tranny goes trough and a 1 1/4" hole at the side to guide the slave pushrod in the forkend,you cant even see the edge of the flywheel trough either one.
 
Big diff from the ones I'm used too. Hard to believe there is no dust cover. I haven't even crawled under my dually yet so I didn't realize there was no access.
 
there's a flat dust cover between the pan and the flywheel that bolts up to the bellhousing.Maybe one can have a peak with a mirror trough the starter hole,i did'nt think about that till just now, but it does'nt matter cuz the bell housing has to come off anyway.
theres no way one can poke the tranny back in trough the throw out brg without knocking it from the fork.
 
the bell housing isnt that hard to get off and i agree with bison there is no way you are going to get the tranny back in with out taking the b housing off. also dont skimp on the pilot bearing if you are in there replace it mine was completly shot when i pulled the tranny. i had the tranny down about a year ago and didnt replace it when i should have. im going with the bushing. not sure on what brand clutch i am going to go with but i already have the solid flywheel so that cuts the cost down some. im leaning towards valeo.
 
Thanks for all the great information guys! I have more information and questions.
I took the bell housing off and also took the flywheel off. I looked at the speedodometer and I have 240,000 miles on this dual mass flywheel. It was machined down once. I think it is time for a new one. Two of the springs in the flywheel are broken. The deck looks uneven and there are some burnt spots. Anyone know where to price a new duel mass flywheel other than the GM dealer? I want to do this right so I don't have to go into this for a while. So I might as well spend some coin and buy new I guess.

The pilot bearing looks fine. But I will be replacing that also. It has over 100,000 miles on it. I did have one go out 100,000 miles ago and the shaft that goes into the bearing does have a groove in it but it lasted 100,000 miles so I might leave it alone. It still feels nice and round, it just have that groove in it where the race rubbed it.

Alot of you folks like the bushing but are others still running the needle bearing? I am still on the fence about what to use.

I will be putting in a new clutch and pressure plate. What brand clutch do you guys recommend?

I have, in the past, put the bell housing on the engine first and then put the tranny on. It is a pain but I did get it on that way. Bison puts the bellhousing on the tranny first and then puts the two on the engine at the same time. What's everyone else do?

There is only like 30,000 miles on this motor and I did check out the seal around the rear crank and it is wet. It might be from the seal where the motor meets the oil pan. It isn't dripping on the floor but the back side of the pan is damp. Should I just leave that seal? It isn't bad at all if the seal is leaking. I just don't want to open up a can of worms and put a new one in and have a leak after the install. Thanks guys.
 
the thing with the pilot brg is that a bushing will wear slowly but keeping it lubricated is an issue,and a brg can loose al needles when it runs dry and comes apart or destroys the tip of the shaft.That creates a lot of shaft play in a hurry.
It all depends how one uses the clutch,some people keep the truck in gear while waiting for a stoplight,that tends to wear the brg fast,as it only spins along with the clutch depressed.others use the clutch only to get it in and out of gear and pop it in neutral when stopped and waiting.
 
it might be the rear main that is leaking. not to hard to change since you have the tranny out. i have always had the single mass flywheel, from what i have gathered most people dont like the DMF. i do have an extra SMF laying around that may need to be resurfaced PM me if you are interested.

iv always done it with the bell housing on the tranny. to me it seems like it would be really hard with in on the engine.

not sure what im going to do with the bushing or bearing either. lots of folks say bushing

as far as the barand of clutch I dont know either trying to figure that out
 
bison said:
the thing with the pilot brg is that a bushing will wear slowly but keeping it lubricated is an issue,and a brg can loose al needles when it runs dry and comes apart or destroys the tip of the shaft.That creates a lot of shaft play in a hurry.
It all depends how one uses the clutch,some people keep the truck in gear while waiting for a stoplight,that tends to wear the brg fast,as it only spins along with the clutch depressed.others use the clutch only to get it in and out of gear and pop it in neutral when stopped and waiting.
Click to expand...

did you mean alone there? you had me confused for a minute
 
bison said:
with the clutch engaged the input shaft and crank are locked together
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ya you typed ALONG and it made me really confused i get what you mean now. so what you are saying is that it is better on the pilot bearing to not hold the clutch in a stop lights and what not. i never do any way my leg get tired.
 
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