Hard To Push Manual Clutch Pedal NV4500

[doober]

Hey Guys, I just put the new slave cylinder in. It feels like I only have half of the clutch pedal now. I hope the air works it's way out after a few miles of use. I had my son push on the pedal over and over while I was down there and I could hear like a creaking sound. something just doesn't seem right.

I then got in the truck and I could feel the slightly harder clutch pedal. I could also feel the pulsating sensation as I would push the pedal down the whole way down. Something is binding a bit it feels like. Well it looks like I will be pulling the tranny Tomorrow when it isn't going to be so darn hot. I will drive it around for a bit and see what it feels like but I think it is still going to be the same. Argh!! I just hope when I tear into it I find something wrong.

Yea Odlaw I have greased the pivit ball and that didn't seem to help.

You guys are great in the help and support that you have given me. Thanks,.

 

[bison]

If you feel it pulsating,then the presure plate is uneven or the release brg is crapped out,the creaking points to a buggered up or dry fork ball/socket
Looks like you in for a complete clutch overhaul.

 

[doober]

Hi Bison, The pulsating feeling I get is when I push the clutch down through the whole stroke. To me it feels like the throw out bearing is at an angle and pushiing hard. You know what I mean? wouldn't that make a little pulsating feeling if that throw out bearing was pushing at a angle. Or if the ball is shot and therefore the arm is at a angle that bearing wouldn't want to slide smooth? I think of it like I have put a bearing on a pipe and if the pipe was just alittle undersized and you put more pressure on one side of the bearing as you slide it on the pipe it would grab.

I think it might grab and stop for a second then move another 1/8" and catch again. I get a good even stroke with the pedal but you can feel it grab and pulse all the way through. The hydrolics are taking up the uneven compression but I can feel it.

I don't know much about how the pressure plate works but if those are bent it might cause the throw out bearing to bind also? I do plow with the truck and I did push alot of heavy snow this winter. I think acouple of times when I let out the clutch it slipped. I didn't move and the clutch was all the way out. It only happened for a second each time. Mabey I bent a finger? Hope I will see something when I open her up.

 

[bison]

Here, pictures are worth a 1000 words.

Might help you visualize how it looks inside the bell housing

The release brg assembly rides on a steel guide,not alluminum,The BRG ass collar and clutchfork fingers are kinda puny for the size of the clutch diaphram IMO and it wont take much to heat up and bend the individual diaphram fingers when the Release brg runs dry and/or fails.
Sound like the brg is gone,its hopping on the out of round ball brgs

 

[SmithvilleD]

Good pictures Bison.

That input shaft bearing retainer the throw out bearing rides on is the part I've heard of being replaced a couple of times when failed pilot bearings left that end of the input shaft unsupported.

The symptoms sounded similar to Doober's reports.

 

[doober]

Bison, Great Pictures. Thanks a million. I thought the release BRG rode on a aluminum snout? If my throw out bearing was shot and riding on the out of round bearings wouldn't I feel the pulsation in the pedel while holding it stationary at say like midrange of the travel? I only feel the pulsation during the pedel travel. I can stop the pedal at any juncture and the pulsation will stop. That pivit ball might be shot causing that arm to move at a angle it shouldn't be? That would in turn cause that throw out bearing to ride on the snout at an angle causing it to bind? That's what it feels like to me.

I still don't think my pilot bearing is shot. But we will find out. I will try to get the kid to somehow post some pictures of what I find. I hope I find something. I been sorta grumpy around the homefront the last couple of days LOL.

 

[doober]

Hey Guys, I just got in from pulling the transmission. I didn't take the bell housing off yet. I looked in at the pilot bearing and that looks good. Concerns that I do have is the allen bolt that goes through the bell housing to hold the pivit arm on was loose. Not alot but I probably could get 1/2 turn on it to tighten it up.

The snout looks gunked up and I am not sure it is supposed to be or not? I tried wiping it off and had to work at it to get it clean. I even used my finger nail for some of it. The throw out bearing actually looked good to me.

I put the throw out bearing on the snout and slid it back and forth and it did slide okay but you could tell it was harder to slide than if it was clean. Was there supposed to be grease on the snout? I then tried to replicate what I felt was happening with the bearing going on with alittle more pressure on one side verses the other. It slid really hard. Mabey my fork is slightly bent and with it being dirty it slides hard? Mabey with the ball bolt that was loose didn't help things at all? Kinda lost here guys. Thanks.

 

[bison]

You got me stumped a bit.
Its common for the gunk/hard grease on the snout as you call it( there's no way to regrease it later)

Well,you're that far now,so take the bell housing off and look at the clutch,and check if the flywheel is loose.
And do check for exsessive crankshaft end play.

I had something similair on one of my tractors( pulsating pedal)when disengaging the clutch.Happened to be in the end the crankshaft trust brg was worn enough to make the crank pop back and forth as a crank flange was hitting the main web every time i stepped on the clutch

 

[doober]

Hey Thanks for your reply Bison, The engine is supposed to only have 20,000 miles on it so I am hoping it doesn't have any end play in the crankshaft. What about the bolt that goes through the belhousing, that holds the ball on? Think if that wiggles around that might have something to do with it? Also, I forgot to say the fork does move around like it has slop in it. Does the fork have a slot in it where the ball is?

Bison, being you said the fork is somewhat flimsy, mabey there is a chance that it is bent alittle? Along with the loose ball and dirty snout that might be causing some of this? To me it seems like it is the movement on that snout is where the problem seems to be.

I wonder if I buy a new GM fork and ball and throw out bearing and give that a shot?

 

[doober]

Okay, another question for you guys. When I split the torque converter from the transmission there was fluid in between the two? Is that okay?

 

[ak diesel driver]

TQ? I thought this was a manual trans

 

[doober]

Ohh sorry, I meant transfercase. My mind isn't what it used to be. Stress seems to reek havic with my mind also.

 

[bison]

Hey Thanks for your reply Bison, The engine is supposed to only have 20,000 miles on it so I am hoping it doesn't have any end play in the crankshaft. What about the bolt that goes through the belhousing, that holds the ball on? Think if that wiggles around that might have something to do with it? Also, I forgot to say the fork does move around like it has slop in it. Does the fork have a slot in it where the ball is? Bison, being you said the fork is somewhat flimsy, mabey there is a chance that it is bent alittle? Along with the loose ball and dirty snout that might be causing some of this? To me it seems like it is the movement on that snout is where the problem seems to be.

I wonder if I buy a new GM fork and ball and throw out bearing and give that a shot?

Yes,the fork has a slot,without it it would bind on the pin when it pivots.I believe there's originally a hold down clip on that little pin(was gone on the one in the pics)
The fork itself is strong enough for the job but i find the the fork tips that engage the throw out brg collar is a bit puny.
A loose pivot ball could exaggerate the pulsating feeling me thinks,but IMO wont be the cause.
A very worn sloppy fit of the throw out guide on the snout coupled to an uneven clutch diaphram could be a cause however.

 

[bison]

Okay, another question for you guys. When I split the torque converter from the transmission there was fluid in between the two? Is that okay?

its normal,as long as oil is not tranferred between the 2,i think on man tranny's there's only a seal in the T-case(wont hurt to replace that now you got it apart)

 

[doober]

Okay, Thanks Bison, This morning I had some more sunlight to look at the snout on the tranny, It is for sure wore. The circumfrence is not the same all the way along the length of the snout where the bearing rides. The snout appears to be scored too. I also see some real small metal filings on the base of the snout.

I could see in to the pilot bearing and that looks good to me. I can see all the needles.

I will take the stud that holds the fork in place out of the bell housing to inspect. I still don't know why that stud bolt was loose? I will also inspect the fork. The throwout bearing I think has a burr on it also so I might as well replace that.

To me finding the worn snout is a good thing being I wanted to be able to find something wrong rather than just put the thing back to together or replace parts hoping to fix the problem. You guys agree the out of round snout could have caused the pulsing feeling? It just felt that something was catching like a bearing wasn't going down the snout right.

I just went to the GM dealer and their prices are very high. I know I will just be happy if I get the problem fixed but do any of the parts stores have these parts? If the parts stores carry them are they just as good as GM or should I pay the extra coin to buy them from GM? Thanks so much, my day is looking up.

 

[ak diesel driver]

I have a hard time believing that a good pilot bearing would wear that input shaft. If you can see all the needles than it must be siezed. Throwout bearing, pilot bearing, etc should be available aftermarket. Alot of people recommend a pilot bushing vs bearing.

 

[doober]

No, Sorry if I didn't explain myself very good. The snout that the throw out bearing slides on it worn. The input shaft looks okay.

 

[ak diesel driver]

interesting never seen that before

 

[bison]

dont cheap out on that pilot brg,replace it.

Have a good look at the the clutch diaphram for runout.
If it wobbles it will wobble the throwout brg as well as it allways stays in contact with the clutch,that in return will cause the snout to wear out prematurely.
I prefer to have the throwout brg to clear the clutch when not in use,but the General had aparently a diff opinion.

 

[SmithvilleD]

The guys I know that had to replace that front/input bearing retainer paid around $155 for the part a few years back. That price might be a bit below dealer list.

Be sure to get the one for GM applications w/ external slave cylinders (believe the Dodge NV4500 apps got a bit beefier part & the GM internal slave cylinder trans used an sort of flat aluminum bearing retainer).

You might check out drivetrain.com & Quad4x4.com as possible parts sources. Quad4x4 shows a lot of NV4500 related parts, tools, & info.