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H/O Waterpump VS. Stock

DieselSlug said:
See i didnt want to switch to the screw on job, i just bought the fan kit with the four bolts from heath. How hard is it to switch to the dual crossover???. I NEED this thing to cool the best it can with a plow blocking my radiator...... So i cant use the 88894035 then, like i wanted to.... I need to find out how the fan attaches to the napa one for the 97 model...... I need to stick with the four bolt dmax fan, spent too much money on it to just throw it out.... and about that whole heath kit, i like it but im still stuck with my fan, and its like 400+ if i recall......
Click to expand...

400$ just for the fan ??? Ouch. That's what I paid for the whokle Heath kit IIRC.
 
We elected to use the older, 1995 version, low-volume water pump on the LSR truck in an effort to minimize parasitic loss. At the higher engine speed at which we operate the racer, we save 10-12 hp when compared to the later, hi-vol pump featured in our upgrade kit. At 4000 plus engine speed, the low-volume pump provides coolant flow sufficient to support our needs. In order to correct the bias in flow inherent to this design water pump, we restrict the coolant flow to the driver-side of the engine. This forces adequate flow into the passenger side. Please note: This relates only to the racer engine and does not apply to a typical highway truck in any way, shape or form.

Separately and only as regards the Extra Heavy Duty Cooling System upgrade kits for conventional trucks (as was featured in Maxx Torque); we appreciate the fact that our recommendations run counter to 'dual-stat' thinking. It is interesting to note that there is, in any engine design, an ideal coolant flow rate and that a flow rate lower or higher can have the affect of reducing the ability of the coolant to absorb heat from the casting(s).
As pointed out in the article, a low rate of flow on the passenger-side of the engine is a big problem in these trucks because it is simply far too low. And, merely adding a bigger pump and two thermostats does not appreciably increase flow on that side of the engine-----problem not solved.
While having an equalized flow goes very far toward correcting the issue, it is still only a part of the total picture. The new pump must be controlled to the right flow rate for best absorbtion of heat. Using the prefered, single GM thermostat or the dual GM thermostats in conjunction with our return flow orifice (supplied as part of kit) accomplishes two very important goals. One is that this controls rate of flow for best absorbtion rates. Secondly, the restriction imposed creates a certain head-pressure within the block which is critically important to the prevention of steam pockets.
Beyond all this and regardless of the theory to which one may subscribe----------the really important thing to consider is that this combo works and works very well. It has been proven over a number of years and through the toughest of towing conditions.
Please understand; our choice of componens was not made at random. A great deal of testing was done leading us to the package we offer today. Volume purchasing allows us to provide the package at a very attractive price.
 
I wish i didnt buy the fan in the first place and went with the kit........ SO if i go dual.... i need to trim alt bracket, and get a new upper radiator hose... Will the dual stats interfere with anything else??
 
Like HEATH said, there is alot to a cooling system. From my racing standpoint I can afirm that coolant scrubbing is about the most critical element there is. The coolant flowing through has to be able to absorb the heat through scrubbing across the cylinder walls and block. If it flows through too quickly it can't scrub the heat away and it exits without the heat being absorbed. And as for a custom radiator, I think that is overkill myself. The DMAX guys are running HUGE power numbers through the same size radiator without overheating, so I would say the radiator size is plenty to cool even a hot 6.5(The 6.5's radiator is actually slightly larger than that of a DMAX, but the core is the same for the most part). This is where HEATH has it down, he is addressing the problem area rather than trying to make a band aid somewhere else.
 
DieselSlug said:
I wish i didnt buy the fan in the first place and went with the kit........ SO if i go dual.... i need to trim alt bracket, and get a new upper radiator hose... Will the dual stats interfere with anything else??
Click to expand...

Grind the alternator bracket roughly a 1/2"-5/8" over a 2 long portion, use the 96+ upper hose, and bend the fuel return lines to clear the housing as well. It's not a major job, but it is tedious getting it all in there.
 
Some one noted earlier about it not working with my belt tensioner?? Does my heater line connect into it correctly with the little plastic clip? And here is another question... Does anyone have one they are willing to sell??? Or know where i can get one for a decent price, peninsular is 150, i was hoping for one cheaper , but i guess thats my backup....
 
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THEFERMANATOR said:
Like HEATH said, there is alot to a cooling system. From my racing standpoint I can afirm that coolant scrubbing is about the most critical element there is. The coolant flowing through has to be able to absorb the heat through scrubbing across the cylinder walls and block. If it flows through too quickly it can't scrub the heat away and it exits without the heat being absorbed. And as for a custom radiator, I think that is overkill myself. The DMAX guys are running HUGE power numbers through the same size radiator without overheating, so I would say the radiator size is plenty to cool even a hot 6.5(The 6.5's radiator is actually slightly larger than that of a DMAX, but the core is the same for the most part). This is where HEATH has it down, he is addressing the problem area rather than trying to make a band aid somewhere else.
Click to expand...

RAd is big enough but IMO they don't get enough air to them. I think aside from the fan, GM stacked too much in front of it but i will be hopefully proving that theory very soon when I do a test run with and without the a/c condesor on a hot day. I am running Heaths cooling upgrade. it helped but didn't cure.
 
In my racing experience we tested rad inflow & outflow temps; as well as temp at the water pump outlets & in each cylinder head.

On the BBC's, adding some restriction on the left bank helped equalize head water temps - which seems to correlate w/ Bill's comments on the 6.5.

Certainly the IDI pre-cups add some combusion chamber surface area that winds up transferring some additional proportion of combustion heat into the coolant system as compared to the Duramax. But as THEFERMANATOR said, there are a lot of DMax's out there towing heavy at much higher power levels.

Wish I'd thermal barrier coated my pre-cups, combustion chamber head surfaces & valve faces, & exhaust ports on my 6.5. It seems likely the 6.5 w/ its pre-cups might benefit even a bit more than regular comb chamber head engines. Prolly gain some efficiency by keeping a bit more heat in the cylinder as well as lowering the cooling system heat load.

I've applied internal thermal barrier coatings on some other engine projects, but didn't on my 6.5 build as I kept expanding the list of tweaks to it, which kept extending the deadline to get it finished & running. After seeing they'd coated those surfaces on the Heath LSR, I wish I'd spent the time to disassemble the heads & done the coating.

It's easy enough to apply the coating to the comb chamber & valve faces. However, I haven't found a way to do the exhaust ports as smoothly; can't get at a lot of the surfaces to spray. Ended up brushing it on, with made it tougher to control thickness. Tear down examinations didn't show any delaminiation of the coating. But the brushing added some unwanted texture in otherwise smoothly polished exh ports. Does anybody on the forum know how the pro's apply the coating in the ports?
 
For whatever its worth to ye all.

here's a pic of the dual T stat crossover with the 94/95 alt bracket installed.
bracket needs grinding right underneath the blue terminal.the lift hook needs a small cutout as well to clear the inj return line.

Pic did'nt turn out as i wanted
 

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Acesneights1

You state that you have our cooling upgrade but that an over heat problem still remains. Without your name I cannot have my guys look at the sales records, so do not know if you have the complete Extra HD System featured in the Maxx Torque article. If you have that complete system and are still having temps beyond 210*, that would suggest that there is dirt, bugs and crud on radiator / a-c core external surfaces and or mineral accumulation inside the radiator. Why not give me a ring to discuss.
 
As it relates to heavy, uphill towing, we feel that the factory radiator is adequate, but no better. And this only if it is CLEAN IN and OUT.
While the old-time practice of 'rodding-out' a radiator core provided some benefit in older, less demanding applications, this practice is not entirely affective with the modern aluminum type core found in these trucks. The rod can break loose heavier buildups and improve coolant flow by doing so, but it cannot remove all the deposit that coats the entire internal surface. This mineral coating forms an insulating barrier on the tube wall which affectively isolates the tube material from the hot coolant to prevent design heat-transfer. We avoid tap water to help prevent the buildup of the mineral deposit. We use and recommend the newer lifetime antifreeze, obtaining it in the pre-mixed 50/50 blend.
It is interesting to note that bugs, weed seed and dirt will pack solidly into the A/C core in the area behind the engine oil cooler and autmatic trans oil cooler and no, you cannot clean out this accumulation without first removing the grill and the cooler(s).
When these areas are plugged, airflow through the oil cooler is reduced which causes higher than normal fluid temps. It also blanks out a great deal of air-window to the radiator. Keeping these areas clean is often a seasonal chore.

Even the very best water pump / fan clutch / blade set up is still only as good as the weakest link-----the radiator. It has to be clean in and out.
 
Are there any plans to adapt the good water pump to the old pulley (4 bolt) set up? I would like the even flow when my water pump goes (201,000 original miles).
 
What is reccomended to clean the minerals out of the inside of the radiator?? I flushed mine WELL, but im going to be taking it apart again and i want it as clean as a whistle. My plant is to set it face down on the grouns and pur something in it with water to clean it, maybe leave it sit overnight. What would you guys reccomend??
 
There are no plans to alter the fan clutch mount system---sorry.

I am not aware of any really good way to clean the mineral deposits out of the core. When we have one that is old and in trouble, we replace it with new as we have to have good cooling performance in our part of the world where everything is uphill.
 
I have used Muriatic (hydrochloric) Acid in copper rads with great results, I'm sure it would have a bad reaction with aluminum though.

Leo
 
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