Fuel To injectors, still no start

[Turbine Doc]

Dont crank the truck with the charger attached, or jump it with another vehicle running, the overvoltage of greater than 12V could damage the Glo-Plug controller or glo plugs.

How do you get that conclusion, most times jumping without a vehicle running there isn't enough oomph to get it to crank fast enough, Buddy I don't mean to be jumping on your posts tonight but a lot of conjecture/supposition we can live without.

 

[Turbine Doc]

i was reading something on having to have the comp programmed to learn the new TDC or something like that when you put your IP on a different engine, i am almost wondering if thats my prob, cause when i had the timing cover off i checked my pump and its fine too , and still no codes but the damn thing just wont start.

That information about requirement for relearning TDC was not exactly correct.

 

[Turbine Doc]

Do you have +12V to the shutdown solenoid ? you said glows checked, how ???, how many V from outlet of the glow controller ??? off charger, & not connected to jump off vehicle?

Do you own a load cell, IMO every PCM equipped vehicle owner needs one batt can read good volts but under load with sulphated cells there is little current capacity from batts. (see pics of load cells)

How new are batts and is cranking strong, where is your FSD on IP or remoted, if remoted was it new or used when you remoted it?

If you would so I/we have full picture; summarize step by step what you have done thus far and results of what you did at those steps, I sort of get impression somewhere there was a IP swap ??? why ???, if changed, new IP or used one ???

 

[Jason63]

batteries are new, cranking is strong. you know i didn't check the amount of voltage, should have noted voltage, just that it was sending power and shutting off right. well i didn't change IPs, i changed engines, i put a long block in my pickup as i had holes in pistons, so since my old pickup still started and ran i used the same IP. it was out for about a week, but it was in a garage so no weather got to it or anything, i was getting codes and no fuel to injectors, most were left over codes from old engine, so i cleared them and none came back and there is fuel to injectors now, but it wont start. my gear timing is right, the fuel is there and there are no codes thats why i was wonder about relearning TDC, it just seems like i have covered all my bases and its still not firing up, it sounds like its trying but only at first

 

[Jason63]

i guess i should recheck glo plug power, how much V should i have?

 

[Jason63]

oh sorry i left this out, the PMD is on the IP still, i took off my turbo cover when i bought the pickup because i heard it helps keep it cool. but if the PMD was bad wouldn't it throw codes?

 

[buddy]

He had a couple of other threads that he moved on without updating, which is why I asked the questions. It was interesting just getting his fuel flowing.

I've read that overvoltage is one of the main ways GPs/controllers fail, and that it can happen when connected to a charger or running vehicle. If you dont have any facts to refute it then dont jump on it. I have also seen multiple GP failures shortly after people have had replaced alternators and batts.

 

[Jason63]

yeah i made new one because of changes and so it wasn't as long, but yeah, anyway, any more thoughts on the relearn or any other suggestions

 

[Dave01]

You had fuel at the injectors, and say it is trying to start at first, then nothing. Is it possible you have an air leak somewhere? After bleeding the system you get some fuel to the injectors, but that quickly ends, so I wonder if you just start pressurizing with air after a bit of cranking.

I'm at a loss, if you have fuel to injectors, good strong cranking rpms, working glows, and proper timing there isn't anything I can think of to keep the engine from firing.

One other random thought - did you do a compression test after installing the new engine?

 

[Jason63]

yeah i might have an air leak, not sure how to locate that but i'll se what i can dig up, not i didn't, its a reman long block from international diesel so i assume its fine, its got a 1 year warranty on it, i don't think they would send out a bad one when they know they would have to deal with the warranty issues. i had another thought, if i had bad fuel in my lines that went to my injectors, how hard would it be to clear them, not at all or what, i sure hope its not that, they are brand new

 

[chrisk1500]

When you took off the waterpump, did you notice the key on the cam gear? The key on the pump drive gear has a tendency to shear off on the camshaft.

They are known to shear part way as well and give the same issues you are describing.....

 

[Jason63]

the line to the t handle looses a little bit of diesel i noticed today, would that put air in?

 

[Jason63]

yeah i looked and it was fine, thanks for the suggestion though

 

[buddy]

Yes air leak, and by that you mean the line from the filter assembly to the T?

replace that if it is leaking, make sure you use diesel fuel line, and not gas line.

Also check the line that goes from the filter to the IP. Make sure you put those on the correct filter outputs. Drain to the T.

Unplug the optical sensor on top of the IP and see if it will start.

 

[Jason63]

yes the one from filter to t, i think i can get it with a clamp, its just on the end, the output line from the fliter housing goes to the vertical nozzle on IP correct? the other one is tilted toward the front and goes to return line right?

 

[Jason63]

by the way thank you to everyone who helped me get to even this point, i would have been up shit creek w/o the advice, cause im a :dr:

 

[Turbine Doc]

I've read that overvoltage is one of the main ways GPs/controllers fail, and that it can happen when connected to a charger or running vehicle. If you dont have any facts to refute it then dont jump on it. I have also seen multiple GP failures shortly after people have had replaced alternators and batts.

Read where ??? I have tested many glows and it has been over current and not over volt that has killed them. 9g glows (found in early trucks) are especially prone to overcurrent death about 15 seconds from my own experiments that I just had to do myself with an old 9g glow I had out of an old 6.2 engine I was playing with; most of those have died by now and 9gs as replacements are rare finds these days, as are the 11gs some 11gs still on the market which don't survive much extended glowing either, but they don't swell when they die.

As for jumping if you choose to call it that, happens when I think it prudent to do so and unless provoked by so implication that I'm not doing it without doing my homework I do try to remain objective & unemotional.

As far as implication as to me not having the experience to back what I say, well I probably have as much or more been there done that than most, owning my 1st 6.5 since 2000, & have direct experience behind what it is I'm commenting on, albiet I confess I do have some weakness when it comes to the OBD-Is as I don't own one of those (not germane to this discussion as OBD-I & II when it comes to glow basics are very similar).

Buddy we may not agree from time to time, I'll ask same of you that you asked of me do the physical research and then lets compare results; I have done the physical testing not just read about it somewhere on one of the less than accurate sites, one thing we strive for here is accuracy and not regurgitation what we read/found elsewhere.

So when you say do this and it doesn't make sense to what is conventional wisdom has been found to be accurate with these trucks, I'll question you on it, do not take it personally, if you have a new twist so long as it makes sense to way these trucks function I'll be willing to learn all I can from your assertions, actually your push back at my push back is beneficial as it requires me to hit the books and make sure what I think/say is accurate.

I do have to pause though when a comment is made "I have heard that jumping off, kills glows, or charging kills glows" I have some old glows laying around and a used but good glow controller, if I get time in near future I'll glow it at what you think 15V to see if it dies, I can run that experiment if you like.

I'll surmise (& just a hypothesis) any glows or glow controller that die after new batts or alt were on last legs anyway, and cause of premature death were previous extended glowing from a weakened glow system running undervolt/long current dwell times trying to make starts with low volts.

I just pulled out my 94 GM manual that would cover the OBD-I the only warning in it about over voltage, where the manual says do not bypass the glow controller or jump start with more than a 12V system or damage could occur, only other starting systems on road you could possibly do that with would be a 24V starting system, but if that were the case you would have other issues as well, that would be gross overvoltage.

If one wanted to postulate a battery charger, new alt, or jumper vehicle was putting out gross over voltage then I guess the assertion overvolt could be a risk area hold some merit, but more damage would be out there than just the glow relay and glow plugs which are fairly robust devices, I'd expect to see other voltage sensitive devices to die before glow sytem went out.

I've trouble shot glows and glow relays many times with my battery charger, only time a glow went pop right away was when I had flipped the switch on the charger to 100A that glow died quiclky.

I have also jump started many dead 6.5s including my own using traditional methods of revving the rescue/running vehicle to get some extra charging amperage to the dead vehicles batteries.

So if you want to disagree with me that is fine, but I'll ask for your data/1st hand experience since you have challenged me to provide the basis of my opinion & points of reference, at end of day we may agree to disagree which is fine with me but both positions will be out there & let others judge who's advice they prefer to follow, simple as that, & with that I wish you a fine good evening to you.

 

[Turbine Doc]

oh sorry i left this out, the PMD is on the IP still, i took off my turbo cover when i bought the pickup because i heard it helps keep it cool. but if the PMD was bad wouldn't it throw codes?

No it would not, but I'm not ready to go there yet more stuff to do, before counting out the driver, but I'm leaning that direction if you did not go with a new one, or it's still on the IP.

 

[Jason63]

alright well thanks for the advice on air in the fuel system, lol. seriously though, is there a good way to locate air leaks?

 

[Turbine Doc]

the line to the t handle looses a little bit of diesel i noticed today, would that put air in?

You would need gross amount of air to keep from staring, though easy way to check is disconnect the inlet of the tee, plug it, that is the bottom of the fuel mgr bowl I doub't you would suck air there though as your lift would be pressurizing that line, hence the leak you have at the packing gland of the valve when trying to start.

As for finding leaks, force the lift to run with the jumpered diagnostic port and if you have air leak sufficient enough to starve the IP with air, then a puddle will form from 8 psi lift pump pressure.

If no leak found there, then disconnect the inlet to the lift pump and put maybe 3-5 psi air blowing back toward the tank via the disconnected lift pump inlet, you should hear the line leaking air if you have a leak.