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Compounds

No what I'm saying is the vacuum before the turbo increases with more boost (the vacuum also can be can be changed by how far or close to the turbo the tube is placed) and it's that pressure differential that closes CDR. From the testing I did it only really closed at WOT and then only until crankcase pressure forces it back open. When you say high RPMs your basically saying vacuum. So to sum it up IMO the CDR only does anything at high RPM or WOT and then only until crankcase pressure opens it back up, the rest of the time it's just a pipe the connects the intake and the crankcase.
 
Ok. We are on the same page to when it’s closed.
But they have to because piping direct even new engines burn too much oil.
If you take a worn engine and bypass it- you loose more oil through the cylinders burning it noticeable fast.

My point is thats when it is needed the most. The crankcase under vacuum is always a good thing unless you have destroyed oil seals sucking in dirt or water. So get rid of the stupid cdr and replace it with a catch an of some kind and shoot for 4-5” vacuum.
 
This is just my observations talking here....

The stock location of the CDR is in the wrong place for what it does, the valve cover does have wire mesh that in theory allows oil to drop out before traveling through the CDR. Our stamped rockers throw oil directly up into the mesh at a steady rate.. so what part of that seems good ?

Provent and others say a "closed" system works best... meaning the drain line for the canister should be submersed in oil and a restrictor be placed at the location where it connects to the intake, our case in the turbo inlet..

This makes sense to me, thus my setup will use the older baffle in the timing cover and a oil filler tube that has the hose connection, no way much if any liquid will be close enough to be sucked up. Hose will run from filler tube to provent to turbo inlet, inlet will have a 3/16" ? restrictor , the drain from the provent will plumb into the oil pan...

Comments .....
 
Chris- the return oil line should submerge with the “flow valve” inplace so it can regulate how it flows through. If it returns to the crankcase it feeds back pressure and won’t separate properly. I think their YouTube video description is best.

Les- yes, that’s why moving the location to gain highest possible vacuum or using an external vacuum is best. But if no catch can- oil loss becomes the issue.

Many people don’t return the oil automatically. Once a week or month depending on rate of use, they drain the can into a jar. Get rid of contamination (usually water from humidity) and pour the rest back in by hand. If you could take 5 minutes a month tk get rid of the moisture, would you becomes the question. Some people throw it away, others let It separate and pout it back in.
Using mega expensive oil- i say separate and reuse. Just let it sit a week or you will easily see the the water from the oil. Faster separation: heat to 195f- Not boiling. Boiling actually takes longer.

3 videos, one guy in dry Australia so no water - the other 2 will make you consider this method quickly if you are in a humid area. The Aussie is using a provent with diy hose drain valve. The replacement filter is a requirement in eu for commercial trucks. They can just be cleaned out and reused - they make a stainless steel filter for it once you get around 100,000 miles on the originaland accidentally break it cleaning it.
many people don’t add them because they think they HAVE TO drain back to pan. Not so.


 
ak diesel driver said:
without a throttle plate our engines don't produce anywhere near that much vacuum. Won't even register on a water column, I had to by a digital manometer to read it.
Click to expand...
I forget if this was covered, vacuum is created at the compressor inlet so plumbing a proper capacity CCV like the RACOR 4500 with proper PM oil will not be pulled into the compressor wheel.
Condensation plays a big role in water buildup in most all drive-train components.
 
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I've got a new Racor CCV4500 still in the box. When I can figure out a good way to mount it I'll gladly use it. I had kinda thought about mounting where the factory fuel used to be and letting it drain back through the center mount turbo drain hole. Now after watching the videos that Will posted I'm not sure I want it draining back into the engine.
 
Just call me chicken little- I’ll make ya nervous sometimes.
Get that sucker mounted and in use.

I would love to see provent vs Raycor.
Here is another Aussie showing Provent beating up an HBR. There are many like the moroso that do almost nothing.
@FellowTraveler is yours in use already?
 
Will L. said:
Just call me chicken little- I’ll make ya nervous sometimes.
Get that sucker mounted and in use.

I would love to see provent vs Raycor.
Here is another Aussie showing Provent beating up an HBR. There are many like the moroso that do almost nothing.
@FellowTraveler is yours in use already?
Click to expand...
Soon, very soon it will be plumbed into the compressor intake!
 
More blow by definitely adds to it. If ya ff to 13:00 in this video he talks a little about the university tests done that got him to switch. Below that is the link to the study.

Now, not trying to throw down a gauntlet, but there is a reason I bought the provent.

The key take away is provent is 98%removal, and 98% efficiency. While 1% more removal could be achieved- the pressure differential is Huge to overcome. So thats what would be nice to see on the Racor. As to the efficiency level, E=mc2 tells us plainly there is no such thing as 100% efficiency. So... is the Racor a higher level of percentage in 98 category or hit the magic 99.0%? MmmmMaybe. That studies “98%” is not 98.0% if you look into details and read to the professor’s notes - it’s supposed to be 98.4. The new provent 500 is > 99% efficient and good for 1,631 hp.

The two places that the provent can be beat performance wise is the filter quality, and cost. If it filters better or the same and costs half as much as to be changed twice as often then it could beat it. Or if it cost under $100 for a complete unit, say. For those unaware- provent is the gold standard by which all others get compared. If Raycor beat it- I would think they would advertise being the new best.

The provent 200 is good to 400kw or 536 hp and using torque numbers is not accurately equated but would be in excess of 28,000 ft lbs. So hp is more accurate. So N8in8or would need the provent 300. Y’all don’t wanna kiow what takes the 700! Haha.

I really been thinking of mounting mine in a box in engine compartment vented above windshield to be able to keep it and put truck in deep water.

Comparative Performance of 12 Crankcase Oil Mist Separators

Abstract Closed crankcase ventilation (CCV) systems are required in most automotive markets in order to meet emissions regulations. Such systems usually require a separator to recover oil and return it to the sump. Many end users fit improved separators in order to reduce intake/aftercooler contami
www.sae.org www.sae.org
 
I used one of the Tractor Supply sprayer filters filled with stainless steel pot scrubbers for a while. I had it plumbed between the CDR and the K47 filter box. It kept the turbo dry but I had to replace the air filter quite frequently. Wonder if the filter box would be a good place to plumb the 4500?
 
Here's some good information on CCV methods. Espically thorough on the 4500.

CCV - Can't take the Smell

So the CCV is routed to the rear axle and vented to atmosphere. I can't stand it and need a solution. I thought about just putting back into the intake but don't want to deal with intercooler hoses. So what can be done? I think I remember someone saying put some steel wool in a coffee can on...
powerstrokearmy.com powerstrokearmy.com

This is a single post but the whole thread is pretty good.
 
Will L. said:
No, I get it. I dealt with vacuum system on dry sump and wet sump engines. Both race and equipment.

The higher the rpm, the more oil particles in the crankcase. The higher the compressive blow by, the more crank case pressure. Added together is worst case scenario.

Why / when does it restrict. Higher volume of air moving through the airhorn sucks in the crankcase air. It isn’t just turbo boost. All the n/a pickups and hummers see the same if not more oil in the intake than turbo. the airflowing creates the Venturi sucking in the air and the pressure in the crank case is still high- thats why the cdr was made on the n/a 6.2 &6.5 before turbos were ever added.

the added turbo simply creates more crankcase pressure because it induces more blow by even with brand new rings. Thats why they are different part numbers. The turbo ones regulate sooner than the non turbo ones because of this.

This is a dyno provable issue, we did it at work. I can tell you directly on a new engine bypassing the cdr is worth 3-4 ponies at 3500 rpm and same tains torque around 2300 rpm iirc. all stock engine. And it isn’t the “free fuel” of the oil burning because all clean intake manifold shows it. I can’t promise exact power gain and rpm, but I remember it was a tiny improvement on both ends. Rate of acceleration was also a tiny improvement but so little it was timer shown, not noticeable.

Something you could do to see it isn’t boost causing it warm up engine first then shut off- put a white t shirt over the hose opening and connect hose to trap a layer of the shirt. Block wastegate for no boost and start truck and immediately hold it at 3,000 rpm for a bit. Shut it down and inspect the oil on the shirt material. Do the same test low rpm. Do it with and without the cdr. Then again with the turbo and trap the gate to build 7 lbs. you’ll see it plain- higher rpm creates more oil to become drawn through than low rpm regardless of boost. Again, adding more boost (or more volume and lower boost pressure from bigger turbine) willhave more blowby and ramp up more oil loss.

the cdr works by volume of air drawn through it. When X amount occurs it closes more. Take an old one and adapt shop air compressor hose to it, then use a leaf blower. The volume of air going through the cdr creates pressure differential to close it.

I think we both agree it is wide open at idle and closes upper end- but I think you are saying it is boost related- incorrect. If boost then it would tap a hose from turbo output to control and there never would have been one on n/a engine.
Click to expand...
There is the train of thought "that less oil in a oil pan reduces the chanced of the crank misting the oil by beating through it" I tend to agree with this especially on engine with a non baffled pan...this is perhaps the BIGGEST culprit.
Lets look at the facts here; the oil pump intake is usually kissing the bottom of the pan and 1 to 2 quarts should not cause an oiling issue.
 
Will L. said:
The closer to the turbo the better to get as much ‘vacuum’ as possible.
Click to expand...
The other place for high vacuum, is the down pipe using a vortice tube at a right angle and a check valve. However a stocked sized cat would be in harms way and clog so a larger one (platinum type) would be needed then there is the question of what exits the exhaust is acceptable?
 
dixiepc said:
I'm sure you're right but there would always be that nagging thought in the back of my mind. I've had lots of good luck with Holsets, so I guess I'll stick with them until one of them changes my mind.
Click to expand...
There is nothing that spools faster than a Holset...
 
dixiepc said:
I ran a CDR for a long time and finally decided to try just a road draft. Been running that for about a year and a half and I'm not experiencing any of the negative affects that people talk about.
Click to expand...
That is a no no on the 6.5td only diesels running road draft tubes up to around 2008 are Cummins.
 
Yes the oil in pan getting splashed by crankshaft/rods is a factor. It robs a tiny amount of power too, like 1-2% hp iirc. Check engine builders tv show doing dynos for an example. But the oil gets pushed out bearings and sprayed against bottom of pistons flying at incredible speeds, dripping back from rocker arms, etc. Fully dry sump engines that run external vacuum pumps pull in a lot of oil vapor still.

If using a draft tube from the exhaust (many drag cars do it in the header collector) - if you have a really good unit like a provent- your remove 98% of it. So the amount going out the exhaust would be negligible. If really worried about it, run one on each bank. You could have a 200,000 mile engine getting a drop per thousand miles.
 
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