Big 6.5 Test

[Acesneights1]

I hear ya. I did all that. Rad is new so no need to clean I steam cleaned the coolers front and back. Mine is different that your though. I have no issues unloaded. In fact my 2000 can have a full, I mean full load of firewood on it and still run down the highway at 70 mph climbing hills and temps don't go over 195. As soon as i hook a trailer up the temps go up but onbly on long grades. Flat ground is no problem. TD, I hear ya but you also have a very nicely done intercooler on your which is maybe what i need to continue towing. It's gotta be one of two things cause everything else has been covered. either the air is not getting past the a/c condensor because the fins are bent just enough to block it(BTW they look ok but maybe I'm missing something) or after looking at my snapshot IATs are just too high. I'm leaning on the latter. If I'm toolin down the highway and the turbo is blowin 260 straight into the motor I would think that's kinda like putting a spaceheater in front of it. Of course IP needs to go first before I tackle the intercooler. That's why i call it the money pit but and this is why i turned down 7500$ offer for it. What vehichle can you buy that fits in a small garage, is a fullsize SUV, can tow a 26ft camper and still get 12-13 mpg doing it ? Not many vehichles if any fall into that.

 

[JiFaire]

I'm tellin ya, you start working it hard with a trailer, and the tranny heats up.

You only gotta get the tranny fluid hotter than the water for heat to be flowing from the tranny into the coolant, preventing the coolant from cooling down.

TCC Lock mod first... talk later.

Always do the cheap stuff first.

 

[Brooklyn Tow]

I hear ya. I did all that. Rad is new so no need to clean I steam cleaned the coolers front and back. Mine is different that your though. I have no issues unloaded. In fact my 2000 can have a full, I mean full load of firewood on it and still run down the highway at 70 mph climbing hills and temps don't go over 195. As soon as i hook a trailer up the temps go up but onbly on long grades. Flat ground is no problem. TD, I hear ya but you also have a very nicely done intercooler on your which is maybe what i need to continue towing. It's gotta be one of two things cause everything else has been covered. either the air is not getting past the a/c condensor because the fins are bent just enough to block it(BTW they look ok but maybe I'm missing something) or after looking at my snapshot IATs are just too high. I'm leaning on the latter. If I'm toolin down the highway and the turbo is blowin 260 straight into the motor I would think that's kinda like putting a spaceheater in front of it. Of course IP needs to go first before I tackle the intercooler. That's why i call it the money pit but and this is why i turned down 7500$ offer for it. What vehichle can you buy that fits in a small garage, is a fullsize SUV, can tow a 26ft camper and still get 12-13 mpg doing it ? Not many vehichles if any fall into that.

What about stop and go traffic?........move 20 ft at idle, stop, and the whole time nothing but hot asphalt, exhaust, motors......get the picture?
running at 70, I was cool as a cucumber also. Oh, and the DMax fan is what made the difference in that senerio, that sucker moves air.......I had both......went from the six blade to the 9 blade steel 20" (suggested from vendor to work special w/ his clutch,Bull$hit)......then the 21" composite DMax ($50-dealer)made all the difference in the stop and go.

Louis

 

[Turbine Doc]

Depending on some tests I'm fixin to run (Ms speak), you mite not need IC, gonna take the China turbo plumb it to the engine without IC in the loop and then see what IAT is with a more efficient turbo, possibly the CT with WMI is viable option over ATA IC.

 

[jcool]

I hit the tooth fairy on the head and buried him in the woods, he was breathing heavily leaning over my kid, what would you do?




I didn't mean to bash anyone, I have dealt with 6.5's for a long while, still do. We run 3500 head of cows in montana, have 10 ranch trucks and 3 of them are 6.5's. They can't pull with anything, they get hot, but they are still running. I take some of the other DMAX's and chase cows, bang off trees, and other crap, but I will always have a soft spot for 6.5's. I like the way they sound, and nothing can match fuel economy of a ricardo fuel combustion chamber. Even if it is indirect!

you can get one under 10k now pretty easy. there was a 08 lmm with 7k on it fully loaded for 25k at the local dealer a month or so ago...

Oh believe me the overheating issues are frustrating. I have actually though of gong backwards to a CUCV. Not as fast but impossible to kill. My 3500 sees some really rough terrian. There is not a body panel on it without somesort of damage. I ripped the crossover off it on a rock a month ago.
Like I said I would love a dmax but unless I come across a beat to s#it one real cheap just too much money to spend for the abuse I give it.

musta been a big rock:cryin:

Hey Guys, Been a while since my last post......Hope everyone is fine...........

One of the first problems when I got my rig was running hot,(Even Unloaded) now I'm a pretty heavy wrecker, (10,000 lbs without me and very little fuel) and Brooklyn, NY is not known for hills, I travel a lot on "Flatlands Ave."
Anyway winter time truck ran 180* - 190*, but summer in 95* heat I often saw 210* and maybe 2 ticks higher (Do the math) unloaded in traffic. One day I found all the guru's at Dplace and was told to do something, these engines don't like heat, clean this clean that, Ba, Ba, Ba........OK sure! .....first thing I did was change the water pump to the HO, ....wasted money, did nothing, second thing i did was the fan clutch, (BIG long story behind that one,) was assured this will solve the problem from the vendor, no dice, just alot of noise and robbed my power, freakin thing never shuts off...........I then returned to the thread I posted my overheating woes to and one of the guru's asked what my radiator looked like?.......I said it looks good, antifreeze is green, no leaks..... and then I was given the old, "You have to take it out and clean the fins" routine, and while your at it clean the condensor and the oil and tranny coolers........"but those could stay in". Then the guru said use "scrubbing bubbles, spray it up let it soak and then rinse it with a garden hose"............."repeat this till you could see your feet through the fins"......"and if it takes less than 3 or 4 hours, you didn't do a good job"
Well needless to say I thought this guy was plucking with me and he was nuts if he thought scrubbing bubbles was gonna solve my problem, Then another guru, green name guy added in," make sure you got origanal AC Delco t stats in there," I had allready bought 180* robert shaw's, (just kept my mouth shut on that one), and then another Green name guru said, you might also want to get rid of that old style 6 blade fan........(I just spent a ton of money on a clutch, water pump and now it's the fan?
So I sat with this advise for a couple of days, drove my rig like the parts I changed were gonna work better over time...Yea Right!.........so a week goes by and i'm getting tired of watching my temp gauge go to 210*, then having to turn the A/C off and sweat my bells off..............all along this was unloaded, empty, light, so one day I was loaded, full, heavy......and that gauge started to go right to that 3/4 mark (Do the Math)...........
So guess what I did, I pulled into my friends local gas station/repair shop with 5 cans of scrubbing Bubbles..........He thought I was there to clean his bathroom, Ha Ha....and then I asked him to pull the rad......now bear in mind that this is the guy that changed the water pump and the clutch.........and I told him what my plan was with the toilet cleaner,
This was the best Laugh he had all week, and he poked at me hard after the rad was out, every wise crack you can think of that has to do Toilet, Cleaning, running hot, Stuffed up fins, scrubbing Bubbles, you name it, he tore me a new hole.
Now after the 3rd hour and all the water and gunk, leaves, dirt he wasn't laughing anymore, cause I'm taking space in the shop, making a mess, and he still got to put the rad, fan and shroud back.................
But Guess who left running 15-20* cooler, oh, and by the way, I never knew the a/c could blow that cold.
If anyone is overheating, make this the first thing you do ......so you don't have to read another story like this one ..........and there are lots

Thanks, Green name guru's.......you know who you are.

Louis

interesting... never thought a toilet bowel cleaner would be used...

I'm tellin ya, you start working it hard with a trailer, and the tranny heats up.

You only gotta get the tranny fluid hotter than the water for heat to be flowing from the tranny into the coolant, preventing the coolant from cooling down.

TCC Lock mod first... talk later.

Always do the cheap stuff first.

this may affect city *driving* but on the highway this should be null. what exactly is the tcc lock mod? i am assuming that it is just like a tow/haul mode type of deal on my truck as the tc locks in every gear.

Depending on some tests I'm fixin to run (Ms speak), you mite not need IC, gonna take the China turbo plumb it to the engine without IC in the loop and then see what IAT is with a more efficient turbo, possibly the CT with WMI is viable option over ATA IC.

you have perked my interest..... when will you be doing this?

 

[Turbine Doc]

I'll be mailing Ian @ Heath the TD07 soon, let him play with that, and once I get some mpg numbers to compare to the China turbo then I'll get some tube and bypass the IC

 

[jcool]

I'll be mailing Ian @ Heath the TD07 soon, let him play with that, and once I get some mpg numbers to compare to the China turbo then I'll get some tube and bypass the IC

sounds you have played around with this already? if so what improvements have you noticed?

 

[JiFaire]

You're thinking like a guy witha Duramax, justin... what the heck is tow-haul mode to a 6.5?

I'm tellin ya, you start working it hard with a trailer, and the tranny heats up.

You only gotta get the tranny fluid hotter than the water for heat to be flowing from the tranny into the coolant, preventing the coolant from cooling down.

TCC Lock mod first... talk later.

Always do the cheap stuff first.

this may affect city mileage but on the highway this should be null. what exactly is the tcc lock mod? i am assuming that it is just like a tow/haul mode type of deal on my truck as the tc locks in every gear.

This thread isn't ABOUT mileage... it's about cooling. If the Torque Converter isn't locked, the 4L80e tranny generates tremendous heat, and anything above ambient influences the radiator's ability to shed heat from the cooling system.

The TCC Lock mod can be used to force the torque-converter to lockup on OBD-I trucks, which makes for much less heat generated. Also has the advantage of giving you more direct torque, and letting you use engine braking, rather than having things free-wheel whenever you take your foot off the pedal.

We don't HAVE a tow/haul mode on these trucks.

 

[Acesneights1]

TCC Mod will be the next in line b4 IC. Don't think it's going to be an issue anymore anyway as someone is coming with cash tonight for the camper. I have an IP to do on it as well. Not looking forward to that. In my prime(6-7 years ago) I could R&R a 6.2 pump in about 2.5 hours. I'm hoping to keep this one under 4. I may just give up on trying to cool the tahoe. Basically if it doesn't tow it doesn't have a problem Stop and go traffic was never an issue on mine either. Only hills and towing heavy. I may concentrate on getting the 2000 K3500 to run cooler though as I still tow my m,achine around with that and it doesn't like it either. That truck is all stock though so gonna start different this time. Do the exhaust first, kittyecomny, 4" crossover/DP and new fan and see how it is. Rad was pulled last fall and all coolers scrubbed. It acts Exactly as the 95 does. Both trucks have beed thoroughly flushed and dexcool replaced with lifetime antifreeze. I doubt I'll buy another camper for awhile. I have a 1970 Dodge Travco that I am restoring. I'll never sell the Tahoe though. Too attached to it. Although i did like my 1991 Jimmy 6.2 diesel better. You could take the top off in the summer.

 

[jcool]

You're thinking like a guy witha Duramax, justin... what the heck is tow-haul mode to a 6.5?



This thread isn't ABOUT mileage... it's about cooling. If the Torque Converter isn't locked, the 4L80e tranny generates tremendous heat, and anything above ambient influences the radiator's ability to shed heat from the cooling system.

The TCC Lock mod can be used to force the torque-converter to lockup on OBD-I trucks, which makes for much less heat generated. Also has the advantage of giving you more direct torque, and letting you use engine braking, rather than having things free-wheel whenever you take your foot off the pedal.

We don't HAVE a tow/haul mode on these trucks.

no shit. i said liketow haul mode, ie tc locking just as i stated. i didnt mean to put mileage down but its not hard to understand what i meant with my description. any transmission no matter what will generate a lot of heat towing if the tc is not locked, hell it will make a lot of heat not towing if it doesnt lock. yes i have a dmax, no im not thinking along its lines, only stating that if this "mod" locks the tc more (LIKE t/h mode) it will do better in the city mostly considering the 4l80 already locks in at around 50mph if memory serves me correct. obviously you have no t/h mode i never said that they did.

 

[Acesneights1]

What would be optimum times to engage the lock up ? In otherwords I'm tooling down the highway, hit a hill, temps rise so I cut my big 6.5 back a little to say 50mph should I be locked ? Does locking it affect the shifting ? In other words if at 50 mph climbing the hill I have my TCC locked by switch and the trans wants to drop to 3rd gear will it and is that ok ?

 

[JiFaire]

no shit. i said liketow haul mode, ie tc locking just as i stated. i didnt mean to put mileage down but its not hard to understand what i meant with my description. any transmission no matter what will generate a lot of heat towing if the tc is not locked, hell it will make a lot of heat not towing if it doesnt lock. yes i have a dmax, no im not thinking along its lines, only stating that if this "mod" locks the tc more (LIKE t/h mode) it will do better in the city mostly considering the 4l80 already locks in at around 50mph if memory serves me correct. obviously you have no t/h mode i never said that they did.

I know where you were coming from, but this is not like tow/haul mode on an allison. That is still controlled by the computer, and although it will allow it to lock in every gear, it doesn't FORCE it to lock in every gear. Therefore, you can put your DMax in T/H mode and drive it in the city; not something you can do with this mod.

You said:

this may affect city *driving* but on the highway this should be null. what exactly is the tcc lock mod? i am assuming that it is just like a tow/haul mode type of deal on my truck as the tc locks in every gear.

You assumed wrong, unfortunately. The T/H mode widens the bands where the TCC is locked, and monitors rpm, etc. I really do just LOVE T/H mode with an Allison. The switch we're talking about on these here dinosaur diesels forces the TCC to lock all the time. It can't unlock when grounded.

That means you can't drive it locked in the city, like you can with your Allison. If you try to stop, you have real problems; things usually break and or stall.

On the highway, though, it's a different story. These guys like to lock in OD from about 50 mph on,but if you put a load on them, they come out of lock. That's when you overheat. With the TCC lock mod, we can force an OD lock at 55 mph and, if we have enough power, it'll stay there. If we don't have enough power, and start slowing down, we can either flip the switch (and let it unlock), which makes more heat but gives us more torque... handy if we're near the top of the hill... OR... we can let it go down to 3rd locked at about 50 mph. Mine pulls real hard, locked in third, at about 2600 rpm on my tach (which is off, 'cause I changed alternators and forgot about the pulley... sounds like about 2200 rpm to me.

Normally, the 4L80e won't lock at ALL in second, but this mod makes that happen, too. When pulling my 9800# 5er, I usually lock it up when I hit highway speed and then I only touch it if I need to manage the lock, if I need to pass somebody, or if I'm gonna stop.

Sorry if I sounded flippant, Justin... only a handful of people really know what this TCC Lock mod is, because it only works on OBD-I trucks. The 96 and newer vehicles need fancy electronics, and they don't work as good as this mod does. It doesn't behave like an Allison, which is OK.

That should answer your question, too, Kenny.

 

[jcool]

I know where you were coming from, but this is not like tow/haul mode on an allison. That is still controlled by the computer, and although it will allow it to lock in every gear, it doesn't FORCE it to lock in every gear. Therefore, you can put your DMax in T/H mode and drive it in the city; not something you can do with this mod.

You said:


You assumed wrong, unfortunately. The T/H mode widens the bands where the TCC is locked, and monitors rpm, etc. I really do just LOVE T/H mode with an Allison. The switch we're talking about on these here dinosaur diesels forces the TCC to lock all the time. It can't unlock when grounded.

That means you can't drive it locked in the city, like you can with your Allison. If you try to stop, you have real problems; things usually break and or stall.

On the highway, though, it's a different story. These guys like to lock in OD from about 50 mph on,but if you put a load on them, they come out of lock. That's when you overheat. With the TCC lock mod, we can force an OD lock at 55 mph and, if we have enough power, it'll stay there. If we don't have enough power, and start slowing down, we can either flip the switch (and let it unlock), which makes more heat but gives us more torque... handy if we're near the top of the hill... OR... we can let it go down to 3rd locked at about 50 mph. Mine pulls real hard, locked in third, at about 2600 rpm on my tach (which is off, 'cause I changed alternators and forgot about the pulley... sounds like about 2200 rpm to me.

Normally, the 4L80e won't lock at ALL in second, but this mod makes that happen, too. When pulling my 9800# 5er, I usually lock it up when I hit highway speed and then I only touch it if I need to manage the lock, if I need to pass somebody, or if I'm gonna stop.

Sorry if I sounded flippant, Justin... only a handful of people really know what this TCC Lock mod is, because it only works on OBD-I trucks. The 96 and newer vehicles need fancy electronics, and they don't work as good as this mod does. It doesn't behave like an Allison, which is OK.

That should answer your question, too, Kenny.

wow, i read my post and sound like a real asshole! didnt mean to come off that way...

anyway i understand what your saying, i watch my tranny slip (have outlook monitor) which is really cool by the way, and when i am in t/h its locked pretty much all the time accept when starting off or changing gears. and i understand what you mean by the 4l80 and tc lock. mine locked in at 50 or so and that was only in 4th gear. i like the tcc mod idea, would be a great investment not only for towing but for longevity of the tranny. so have you left it locked and come to a stop before?... id be curious what went through your mind prior to the tc lock....

back on track, i have been searching other forums about this subject and came across a few threads were the truck owner was using an aftermarket rad and was oh'ing. switching back to a acdelco unit solved the issues for them. and yes it was with dual acdelco tstats and ho water pump. ..

 

[Acesneights1]

My problem existed with both factory and aftermarket rad. It was about 90 today and I had a nice heavy load of firewood on and when I hit the hill the 2000 climbed to about 200 then I heard the factory fan kick in and the truck went right down to 190. I know a great deal about cleaning radiators. When I ran havy equipment during the summer months we had to wash out the radiators every week Particularly on the 963 Cat. My trucks don't really see dusty conditions like that but it taught me long ago the value of a clean rad.

 

[Matt Bachand]

Kenny you said when you slow down to 50 up the hills the temps dropped...

Perhaps you are just pushing the go-pedal beyond reasonable limits. It sucks to go 40 up hills in 3rd, but sucks more to go 60 down the hills on the back of a tow-truck.

 

[Acesneights1]

Kenny you said when you slow down to 50 up the hills the temps dropped...

Perhaps you are just pushing the go-pedal beyond reasonable limits. It sucks to go 40 up hills in 3rd, but sucks more to go 60 down the hills on the back of a tow-truck.

They dropped but still over 210. And the truck is not laboring at all.

 

[jcool]

They dropped but still over 210. And the truck is not laboring at all.

man, i would be really frustrated if i were in your shoes! is there any possible chance that the coolant temp gauge is not working properly?? i might be way off.... also makes me wonder if the water pump is flowing enough gph... im with the others though on the tcc mod, even if that doesn't improve much heat wise it sure will help your tranny.

 

[Acesneights1]

man, i would be really frustrated if i were in your shoes! is there any possible chance that the coolant temp gauge is not working properly?? i might be way off.... also makes me wonder if the water pump is flowing enough gph... im with the others though on the tcc mod, even if that doesn't improve much heat wise it sure will help your tranny.

Guage is accurate . I hads GMTDScan on it and read the same thing. ONe thing nobody chimed in on, The egts during all this were at 1100. Is that to high ? I notice when i backed off and got EGTS down to 1000 the engine temp dropped a little too. What's normal, safe etc for EGTS. My pyro is preturbo in the ex manifold.h

 

[Turbine Doc]

are you sustaining 1100 EGT or transiting up there and dropping, if constant 1100 IMO that is too high with a HP4, I never see that high EGT with mine but I have IC and the rest of the goodies so not a fair scenario to compare it to, mite wanna check with folks at Heath to see what they say about sustained EGT that high

 

[Acesneights1]

Not sure exactly what you mean but it will stay at 1100 as long as I keep my foot in it. If I back off from 60-65 to 50 it will drop to 950-1000 and of course once i crest the grade it drops back down below 600. I have the original V2 Maxitorque chip.