All I got for Christmas was a VGT turbo

[Veg_Out]

As their product isn't launched yet, can't really say w/ certainty what it will/won't include. My understanding is it will be able to communicate w/ a laptop via USB cable. Saw mention of Fleece actually being able to connect via the 'Net to your laptop & adjust parameters in the controller's tables. Can't confirm this as I've just communicated w/ Braden @ FP to get a few details, not pestering him too much on details until it's ready to launch.

In my '95 6.5 truck's case, it already has the MAP, CPS, & TPS sensors.

The HE351ve turbo's came w/ a shaftspeed sensor.

We would have to come up w/ whatever their controller will use for turbine drive pressure. I'm not certain what they're using? I've seen the common GM 3 bar MAP sensors used to datalog drive pressure as long as it's well enough isolated from exh heat (often isolated w/ copper pressure gauge line coiled to shed heat, filtered w/ something like sintered iron or fine steel wool, then adapted/joined to the black nylon line). I don't have a lot of experience measuring/logging drive pressure. On the performance car turbo projects I've done, drive pressure was relevant, but not as critical because the car's never ran peak boost pressures for > maybe 1 minute.

They may be using some other OEM application's drive pressure sensor. 3 bar is ~ 43 psi. While I'd hope this turbo will perform as I need on my 6.5 w/o drive pressures anywhere near 43 psi, some other applications may go higher. If anybody has other suggestions on a cost-effective sensor, please post in this thread.

Currently, my preference would be to use the GM 3 bar MAP's if possible, simply because they're used widely & I can probably source several sensors from a salvage yard inexpensively. My plan would be to also incorporate an IAT sensor both pre-IC & the stock IAT sensor. Ideally would use the same sensor both 'cause can prolly find them low-cost from the salvage yard, & using the same air temp sensors would mean same signal/calibration for easier datalogging setup.

NASA could use a fellow like you!

 

[SmithvilleD]

Boy could we have some fun w/ that type of budget !!

 

[Samyguy]

is this a stand alone controler for the turbo?

 

[SmithvilleD]

is this a stand alone controler for the turbo?

Yes. The variable geometry in the turbine section is controlled by an onboard processor/actuator mounted right on the turbo ctr section.

This turbo was OEM on the latest 6.7 Cummins in Dodge pickups. The truck's ECM & the turbo's onboard processor/actuator command & control the VGT mechanism's movement.

For my 6.5 application, some other method of controlling the VGT mech must be figured out to work w/o the Dodge/Cummins truck ECM.

There's a video on the 2nd pg of this thread showing them testing this controller. Basically shows them quickly cycling the VGT shroud out & then other, slower, more stepwise movements.

 

[SmithvilleD]

Here are a couple pics of the VGT turbo components next to a GM8. The idea was to provide some general size comparison, although my photography skills & vision are limited.

 

[Woody35]

did you see the thread at competion diesel forum. one of its members was testing fleeces prototype. seems like you can go down the highway with a strait pipe doing 80 mph and no resonance is heard. thanks in part to the adjustable nozzles creating lots of back pressure. he could make 40 psi at 2000 rpms. this thing screams. dont know if its a stock holset though. its on youtube too. type in drunkondiesel and all his videos should show up

 

[SmithvilleD]

Yep, entertaining video & cute dog.

Don't know if that would be the same controller as the standalone controller? They're already selling a controller for the 6.7 Dodge/Cummins trucks that can vary VGT function on the fly. They can alter stock VGT logic for different boost pressures & the related drive pressures.

Can also tighten up the VGT to provide some exhaust brake function.

 

[Larry]

I would have cleaned off my bench and washed my truck if I knew it was going to be in pictures.

 

[SmithvilleD]

I would have cleaned off my bench and washed my truck if I knew it was going to be in pictures.

Yes, but see how pretty it makes freshly bead blasted & painted parts look.

I noticed when uploading the pics, it would have been better to have the ctr section's turbine/comp sides in the right orientation for a better (sort of) exploded view. Still gives some general perspective on the physical size comparison to the GM-X range turbos.

 

[Woody35]

you going with water or oil cooled?

 

[SmithvilleD]

The plan is to plumb the water coolant in. I believe it's important to keeping the onboard processor/actuator electronics alive by limiting/controlling peak temps.

Also, the water/coolant cooled center sections typically show far less heat exposure/blueing on the shaft nearest the turbine wheel. My understanding is at shutdown, when the oil & water stop flowing/removing heat - the water/coolant tends to flash to steam (just like in the coolant passages above the combustion chambers).

It takes a bunch of heat units to drive that coolant thru the phase change from liquid to steam. Removing heat, so there's less heat soak/lower peak oil temps around the turbine side shaft & bearing - so less oil coking. In gasser turbos (without the soot buildup issue), the OEM's oil change intervals are routinely longer for water cooled ctr section turbos, than non-water cooled.

The only downside I know of - from water cooled ctr section is a little less thermal efficiency from the turbo because the coolant is consistently pulling some heat energy out (mostly from the exh/turbine side). And that's energy lost/not doing work. It might also lower exh heat transference to the comp side/charge air, although probably not a very significant degree.

 

[Woody35]

that looks like some good research. where are you going to tap to get the coolant from

 

[SmithvilleD]

The heater hose seems an obvious source to consider. Anybody know if our truck's heater system varies hot water flow? Or does it just vary air mix to control heat output?

I should prolly also take a look at how it's plumbed on the 6.7 Cummins originally. If the OEM plumbing uses banjo bolt type fittings (water ctr sections often do), I doubt it requires a really high flow volume as the low pressure differences engine water pumps creat can only push so much water thru openings that small.

 

[ak diesel driver]

Boy that would really make your heater put out.

 

[SmithvilleD]

Or maybe plumb it on the return?

I don't have a good sense of how much heat input there'd be. Would suppose pulling hard uphill for several minutes could make it considerable.

The DSM's sourced the turbo ctr section coolant from a port below the thermostat. Then the return went to what would equate to our lower radiator hose/return to the water pump.

 

[ak diesel driver]

Oh I'd definately put it on the input side especially up here. But there would be a side benefit to the input side you could turn on the heater to get rid of some excess heat. I do believe that our trucks have an air blend door.

 

[6.2 turbo]

Suburbans and tahoes have heater valves,trucks don't , you would have to make sure your on the engine side of that,also if you have the factory quick connect they are restricted to minimize heater core gurgle.

 

[buddy]

Also when is there actually water flow through the heater core lines?

There should be a blend door, since hot air is always coming in the cab, even with air off, unless I put temperature to cold.

 

[6.2 turbo]

Suburbans, Tahoes,and vans, have the valve it by passes the heater core when you turn the ac on,they all have a hot/ cold door,Gm must have been trying to get max cold air, for the larger interiors.

 

[Woody35]

so what boost are you looking to run. i know at 40 psi they said this turbo makes about 50 psi worth of drive pressure. so it looks like when tuned properly it can be a pretty low drive pressure turbo.