All I got for Christmas was a VGT turbo

[SmithvilleD]

Guesstimate at this point would be possibly up to 20 psi. For our IDI 6.5 spinning a bit above 3000 rpm, 300 hp worth of mass airflow is in that general area with an IC efficient enough to keep charge temps under control to maximize charge air density.

Not expecting to go above a 20 psi limit, if even that. The plan is use the upcoming Fleece Perf VGT controller to try different boost levels under different conditions & data log the results. Then study the data/logs, to develop what the best boost level (for efficiency, power/performance, or both) is for important operating points like WOT/acceleration, WOT/or steady hard pull, highway cruise, etc.

My understanding is the controller will have programmable table(s), so you can tailor the curve to the specific engine/turbo/fueling curve setup. I'd like to idealize the air/fuel curve throughout the range up to the practical fueling limit my DS4 pump can provide w/ performance chip PCM parameters. So far, the consensus sounds like 275 - 285 honest flywheel hp @ 3200 is a conservative & realistic goal.

I'm not really interested in pushing the 6.5 max performance envelope - expect there's too much breakage in that learning curve for a guy my age. If I can build it to consistently make 280 hp w/ better than stock drivability, & 200k mile durability, that's great.

 

[Woody35]

sounds like a good plan

 

[Veg_Out]

Guesstimate at this point would be possibly up to 20 psi. For our IDI 6.5 spinning a bit above 3000 rpm, 300 hp worth of mass airflow is in that general area with an IC efficient enough to keep charge temps under control to maximize charge air density.

Not expecting to go above a 20 psi limit, if even that. The plan is use the upcoming Fleece Perf VGT controller to try different boost levels under different conditions & data log the results. Then study the data/logs, to develop what the best boost level (for efficiency, power/performance, or both) is for important operating points like WOT/acceleration, WOT/or steady hard pull, highway cruise, etc.

My understanding is the controller will have programmable table(s), so you can tailor the curve to the specific engine/turbo/fueling curve setup. I'd like to idealize the air/fuel curve throughout the range up to the practical fueling limit my DS4 pump can provide w/ performance chip PCM parameters. So far, the consensus sounds like 275 - 285 honest flywheel hp @ 3200 is a conservative & realistic goal.

I'm not really interested in pushing the 6.5 max performance envelope - expect there's too much breakage in that learning curve for a guy my age. If I can build it to consistently make 280 hp w/ better than stock drivability, & 200k mile durability, that's great.

I am really anxious about this project. More! More!

 

[buddy]

I was running close to 20 psi with a GM4 on the factory vacuum system and all stock long block, so I would love for the HE351ve to get there too.

 

[SmithvilleD]

Reports from others already running this turbo on their 6.5 seem to confirm it's capable of all the boost/mass airflow levels most will need/want to run.

It's probably going to be a few months 'til I pull the inner/outer fenders & fabricate the downpipe/IC plumbing. Have a couple more pressing projects to complete.

I've been chatting & exchanging pictures w/ Kane about the body lift on his very sharp Suburban. I'm leaning towards adding 2-3" body lift for a few reasons: I really like the stance of Kane's 'Burb & plan to run the same size tires. In chatting w/ folks, I'm learning some of the ways they've resolved some of the negative appearance stuff sometimes seen w/ a body lift - bumper relocation, frame exposure, etc.

As relates to fitting this turbo, it appears a body lift will allow for a significantly less compromised exhaust path/DP out of the turbine as well as a bit more room for a larger IC core.

 

[Matt Bachand]

Smitty, you know someone running a VGT in a 6.5 already?

 

[SmithvilleD]

Yes, both Rafedial1 w/ his 6.5 Camaro & Dondandd w/ his Suburban. They've got pics, ect., on their Diesel Place albums. They're working on making a mechanical/wastegate type actuator control mechanism for the VGT. Believe there's a link early in this thread to a youtube video of when Don first got his mounted.

I'm more inclined to await an electronic controller that utilizes the turbo's original Holset processor/electric actuator that's mounted onboard the turbo ctr section.

Fleece Performance is developing a standalone controller that will take into account throttle position, rpm, boost, & maybe turbine drive pressure as well. An issue or two back, Diesel Power included an aftermarket VGT turbo controller on their "Diesel Power Wishlist" of new products diesel enthusiast want. I see in the latest issue, Brayden of Fleece got a little response blurb printed noting they've been selling standalone controllers for Garrett turbo's for several months now, & have R&D on a Holset controller about 75% complete.

 

[Woody35]

cant wait for this stand alone controller to come out. i wonder with some custom tuning what the max psi of boost you could get with the he351 compared to the drive pressures of a gm-8 at 15 psi of boost?

 

[NickBarrFishing.com]

Is there any way to get a new VGT turbo, and make it so the wastgate is controlled manually (Turbomaster type) and the vane set at a certain degree manually? I had an offer from a guy to buy his 08 Holset Turbo off the 6.7 cummins for $150

 

[chevyCowboy]

Is there any way to get a new VGT turbo, and make it so the wastgate is controlled manually (Turbomaster type) and the vane set at a certain degree manually? I had an offer from a guy to buy his 08 Holset Turbo off the 6.7 cummins for $150

buy it you can just make something to hold the VGT lever where you want it one guy is running his at wide open on his sub. i plan on putting my turbo on and finding what position workes best for me and then later down the road see about the fleece controller. iv got to get the motor running first tho):h

 

[SmithvilleD]

Is there any way to get a new VGT turbo, and make it so the wastgate is controlled manually (Turbomaster type) and the vane set at a certain degree manually? I had an offer from a guy to buy his 08 Holset Turbo off the 6.7 cummins for $150

For clarity, this turbo varies the size of the nozzle/volute opening into/thru the turbine to control shaft-speed = boost. Not a wastegate.

There are a number of guys experimenting with different mechanical, or pneumatic, or diaphragm style wastegate acuators to control the VGT mechanism. The Competition Diesel forum is a good place to see some of these setups.

I've also read about a couple setups that have put the VGT mech in a fixed position & then use an external wastegate for shaft-speed/boost control. That approach seems to me, to loose the potential benefits of VGT. If you can't utlize/benefit from the VGT's advantages, the inexpensive cost of the turbo itself might not be worth the time/fabrication effort.

 

[Woody35]

i know i dont understand why they dont just wait for the fleece controller to come out. i guess they just want a cheap turbo with good power capablity more than your averge hx-35 or hx-40 will do. but there all killing thier electronics on the turbo if there just running oil through it and not water. so even if they wanted to use it eventually it would be fried wouldnt it

 

[chevyCowboy]

i want to put mine on and i run it in a fixed position untill more comes of this fleece controller but for now i just want to get the motor back together maybe with new turbo maybe with out

 

[paintballrepins]

any one have any updates on this controller. Sorry I'm so impatient, but this really intrests me, since I'm in the running for a new motor

 

[Rafedial1]

I've also read about a couple setups that have put the VGT mech in a fixed position & then use an external wastegate for shaft-speed/boost control. That approach seems to me, to loose the potential benefits of VGT. If you can't utlize/benefit from the VGT's advantages, the inexpensive cost of the turbo itself might not be worth the time/fabrication effort.

^this is what i did. I have this turbo on my 6.5. I know i've taken the whole adjustability out of the "vgt", but it's hard to get it set right when in the Cummins application runs anyhwhere from 15-32 psi on a normal basis, and our 6.5's can usually only handle 15 psi max with all the bolt-ons and some typer of intercooler/WMI. so there isnt much "area" left in the turbo to have the "movement" of the vgt "arm/collar". so it's kinda hard not to use another type of "shaft speed" controller(ext wastegate).



I still have much faith someone can design a vacuum/mech wastegate actuator to control the he351ve turbo at our common boost of 10-15 psi max.

recently I see hx-35w holsets going for $150+ while he351ve turbos are going for $100+50 ship. not much cost difference. but after adding in smal fab parts/pieces...who knows?


I think they both perform about the same(when using fixed position of he351ve/ext wastgate--V.hx-35w/ext wastegate--).
(NEW V. OLD)
bottom line....
if you want less hassle fabbing(less physical weight too) go with hx-35w/hx-35y. if you want the adjustability/tuning/hassle and future upgrade to electronics controller go with the he351ve.

personally I love the characteristics of the he351ve. (maybe it's cause i can't leave anything alone for more than a day) :smile5:

 

[Rafedial1]

i know i dont understand why they dont just wait for the fleece controller to come out. i guess they just want a cheap turbo with good power capablity more than your averge hx-35 or hx-40 will do. but there all killing thier electronics on the turbo if there just running oil through it and not water. so even if they wanted to use it eventually it would be fried wouldnt it

the he351ve turbos from ebay are most likely from Scoobydacoreman. from what i have read/exp all the turbos from him already have fried electronics(as the rest of the turbo is useable and near mint(for me), this is reason for replacement/why you see them for sale. they have all been warrantied through a delearship at some point for "failure" (kind of like the the DS4 6.5 ip's being replaced for just a faulty/hot PMD). the he351ve turbos also had issue with "sticking" in certain areas.

fwiw,at some point through production Holset added a scraping "ring" that rides on the collar at very close tolerances to remove carbon buildup.

regardless. I completely removed the electronic box from my turbo. the turbo does not need coolant running through it if no electronics are being used.

fwiw, the turbo I bought from ebay was/is good and loves seeing 18psi everyday.

 

[Rafedial1]

Reports from others already running this turbo on their 6.5 seem to confirm it's capable of all the boost/mass airflow levels most will need/want to run.

agreed.

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

if you're waiting on something from FLEECE, you might be waiting for awhile. It took him almost 6 months to finally sit down and look at my TCM program and say he couldn't do it. I know he does some exotic stuff, but I will never buy from him again or reccomend him after my experience with him.

 

[Matt Bachand]

Could someone with PCM Programming skills program the factory vac pump/solonoid system to control the VGT? Possibly according to engine load? Or APP positioning?

 

[buddy]

Its possible if the controller does indeed accept a PWM signal, but would need the working electronics to test and tweak it. I purchased one of these things but dont know if the electronics works, and for what I paid it wouldnt be promising.