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All I got for Christmas was a VGT turbo

No doubt capable of making more boost & providing mass airflow levels beyond anything I'm interested in running thru my 6.5. Believe the compressor section is the same as the HX-40; Holset rates the HX-40 up to 350 hp. As it happens, the 6.7 Cummins in the latest Dodge trucks is rated at 350 hp.

It should be capable of a pretty low rpm boost threshold, but all that remains to be seen. In concept, it could be capable of blending some of the best traits of the stock turbo & the ATT.

From theory, I wouldn't expect to be able to get drive pressure levels quite as low as the ATT, because I'd expect this turbine wheel is smaller than the ATT's. But at the end of the day, it's only theory until it's been measured.

I do like the concept of being able to vary highway cruise boost & drive pressure on the fly. Not because I envision doing that in an ongoing fashion. More because I'd like to see if there are any changes in the fuel rate needed to maintain the same, level road, steady-state speed.

Because diesels can run at such widely varying air/fuel rates, you don't see much data/experimentation as to what yields the best fuel economy. Probably it's a compromise relating to how efficiently the turbo can supply additional air. Would expect the OEM's to consider this, but they'll have emissions & other concerns as well. Maybe GM has the 6.5 PCM commanded cruise boost levels dialed in for best economy, maybe not - I'd like to actually know.
 
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way to go darrin i knew from the first time i talked to you bout the crazy idea of mine to buy one of these that you had a whole lot more knowledge then me and would be a great asset. i was hopeing for more excitment when i started talking bout mine but i never really got around to working on it. i was planning on giving the welding and re machining a try sounds like the best option to me. only thing im worried about is the ac being in the way. not sure when ill get my motor back in but when i do the hope is to have this turbo on board even if i have to fix the vgt mec in on location till we get something figured out.

could we go a simple as a pressure switch and a stepper motor the travel needed is not that far.
 
Here's a link to a video Cody found of a mechanical control scheme a guy has on his '98 Dodge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnHGbN67PIM

Could be a stepper motor, or some solenoid contraption might work. Will likely take some playing (carefully to avoid overspeed) w/ different setups on the truck to gain knowledge on how the turbo responds under different engine load/fueling & rpm conditions. Where the nozzle shroud should be under different conditions.

I'm still leaning towards using the Holset designed processor/actuator, if this VGT controller Fleece is working on becomes a reality offered for sale & has the capabilities discussed on other forums. Some of my inclination to look at using the stock processor/actuator first is that's the scheme Holset chose, designed, & built.

That's not to say we can't figure out something else that will work. I just like the idea of a setup that can take parameters beyond just boost pressure into account, for safeguards if nothing else. Supposedly the Fleece controller will look at boost, throttle position, maybe shaft speed (not certain), & they mention drive pressure being part of the equation later on.

Regarding clearance of the turbine exit exh bend to the AC accumulator, some are considering relocating the accumulator. Looking at another angle, I've gotten clearance pics from a couple guys that have 3" body lifts, to see how that impacts available clearance in that area. I'm not necessarily a huge fan of the appearance issues of body lifts, like how to make the rear bumper area look right; but those issues might be easier to fab solutions for, than the exh downpipe.

I hate to compromise flow out of the turbine anymore than necessary to make things fit in the truck. Lots to consider & I'm open to most anybody's ideas. Again, the speed that solutions get figured out, is typically related to how many people are working the problems.
 
SmithvilleD said:
A neighbor that does a lot of VW modding work says the VW variable turbo guys even have a term for the cleaning - "vanectomy".
Click to expand...

OT - do you have any more info or links about this? My V10 has about 50,000mi and I wondered if the vanes needed some sort of maintenance to keep them running smooth. You can PM me to keep this thread on topic if you like.

I think the real potential here is to integrate the turbo control with the ECM instead of relying on a stand alone setup. This alows the programmer/tuner more flexibility in delivering an overall performance package catered to the use of the vehicle and the requirements of the user.
 
Thanks for jumping in on this deal SmithvilleD. I've been all over the web too, looking at other places this turbo is being used(non stock). I think it holds great potential for our engines, if we can figure out a suitable control. I'm anxious to see what we can do with it!
 
I think in my earlier post I left out 1 key parameter the rumored standalone controller also needs to see/consider: CPS

If it can take into account:MAP, TPS, & CPS - it can "see" boost pressure, engine load/fueling, & engine rpm. Having these inputs would seem to allow calculating air requirements similar to the speed density methods some gasser fuel injection systems use to calculate mass airflow & then squirt the appropriate amount of fuel. 'Cept on the truck diesel application, it gets the TPS/load/fueling & rpm inputs, then figures what airflow should be supplied & commands the turbo accordlingly.
 
i think i am going to have to use a more basic setup then u two guys my truck is mechanicaly injected. but i guess i still have some of the sensors

random- thats why i was thinking something based on boost pressure
 
Just to be sure you guys are aware, but that blue dodge does NOT have a stock turbo that has a cheetah from fleece a stock holset will NOT sound anything like that. Unless you are posted the vid to show the sound of the vanes adjusting.
 
Yep, just posted the link to show how the shaftspeed can be varied largely independent of drive energy.

After running turbo diesels for the past 30 years, the sound of the turbo isn't that relevant to me unless it turns out to be so shrill as to be continually annoying.
 
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Larry said:
Hey Darrin that turbo your going to put on is going to be a whistler
Click to expand...

You'll have to stop by & check it out. Haven't taken the time yet to look closer at the comp housing to see if it incorporates anti-surge ports, or it just has the ring to limit whistle like many of the earlier Holsets on Cummins.

I've parted everything & everything is in great condition. Had no reason to expect otherwise, but still exercise a little caution with an inexpensive ebay purchase where the part is just represented as used.

Have spoken with another guy that found discolorations on his ebay HE351ve's processor/actuator circuit board. This one looks fine.

I've got some of the Holset service manual documentation, but not all. Need to find the spec's/setup procedure for setting the angle of the sector gear arm - relative to the VGT shroud/nozzle position. The internal linkage simply clamps onto the thru-shaft going out to the sector arm - clamp needs to be tightened at the correct angle.

The sector arm has a hole in it & there are corresponding holes behind the arm, in the actuator mounting pad. The holes are to positively locate a couple specific positions in the arm's rotation range. There's some type of "tool" that goes thru the arm, into the hole behind, so you can locate the arm to a specific point in the rotation. Believe it needs to be in a specific point (as does the rotation of the electronic actuator drive gear that meshes w/ the sector arm) so when the actuator is mounted to the pad, the electronics know exactly where the mechanism/VGT shroud is.

The broadest part of the processor/actuator mounting pad on the center section interferes with the turbine mounting flange in a portion of the ctr section to turbine clocking range.

Keeping the actuator/pad complete means the center section will have to run a bit off level - by my angle gauge, it looks like 20-25 degrees, but will have to mock up on the engine to know w/ certainty. This should be OK, but I'd prefer it more level if possible to keep the oil drain working via gravity as effective as possible.

A little minor grinding on the edge of the actuator mounting pad closest to the turbine gained about 5 degrees closer to level. Don's install isn't using the actuator & he might have ground a little more off the actuator mount interference point - you can see from the video that his install has the ctr section a little off level also.
 
holly crap this is getting way mor technical than i thought it was going to be. do you think that it is going to work for me with the simple wastegate that we had disscued in the begining i dont know that i want to mess with all the elctonics stuff thats why i bought a mech inj truck.:D
 
Seems to be some folks getting them to work w/ various boost referenced wastegate actuators & I've seen pics of one setup w/ a pneumatic cylinder.

Until we have one up, running, & have played w/ it, it's tough to know beyond speculation what will work.

I think whatever non-OEM engineered VGT control scheme one works up, someone w/ a good degree of mechanical intuition/common-sense is more likely to have long term success.

For example: "Boy it sounds like it's spinning really fast & I'm not on it that hard." Recognizing when something's going wrong early enough can give a better chance of avoiding failures & keeping the parts alive so you can focus on developing a fix to whatever went wrong/didn't work.

Trying new turbos on applications they weren't built/originally designed benefits from proceeding cautiously, sort of stepwise, until you've run the setup long enough to know how it's gonna act.
 
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You know if you take a rubber hose and put one end in the intake and the other thru the fire wall and blow thru it when you need power.We could all save our selves a lot of time and money.ha ha just kidding.
 
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