6.5L TD Motorhome repair/repower

[turbovanman]

Pretty cool build. I can't fathom the dollars,

What turbo did you go with?

 

[JayTheCPA]

Pretty cool build. I can't fathom the dollars,

Am just coming out of a similar build, and No, you do not want to see the bill :yikes: Only thing that would have made it more expensive was a DMax conversion. At least it was less expensive than buying a new-er truck and modding it

The way I look at it is the truck just got at least another 15 year extension on life :hihi:

 

[3bals]

The turbo is a Borg Warner model #173379 and there is no waste gate.

As far as cost, it's all relative. It took me about 5 years of looking to find this style and size motorhome with this engine, in this condition. Considering the original cost of the rig when it was new, what I paid for it and what it's worth to me to have a reliable powerful motorhome that should last for many miles and years, even with the expense of this build.

As far as cooling the transmission with anything more than the stock cooler, we'll have to wait to see if any additional cooling is even needed. By adding the transmission temp gauge to the gauge cluster should tell me if it's running hot or not. I guess the biggest question will be, how hot is too hot?

So far the hardest part of the build, is the waiting for parts, the engine, from all parts of the country and to get everything all together in one place at the right time. It's kind of like being the general contractor on a house build, organizing all the sub-contractors to coordinate together.

I have the FTB upgrade done and will be mounting the intercooler this week. It will require some custom fabrication to move the front leveling jack and the transmission cooler to allow room for it. I also need to figure out the length for new oil cooler lines to have Leroy fabricate them for me. I still have to determine the thread size on the cooler end too.

 

[turbovanman]

Am just coming out of a similar build, and No, you do not want to see the bill :yikes: Only thing that would have made it more expensive was a DMax conversion. At least it was less expensive than buying a new-er truck and modding it

The way I look at it is the truck just got at least another 15 year extension on life :hihi:

I agree, that's why I drive the vehicles I drive, plus they are cheaper to maintain and are paid for.

The turbo is a Borg Warner model #173379 and there is no waste gate.

As far as cost, it's all relative. It took me about 5 years of looking to find this style and size motorhome with this engine, in this condition. Considering the original cost of the rig when it was new, what I paid for it and what it's worth to me to have a reliable powerful motorhome that should last for many miles and years, even with the expense of this build.

As far as cooling the transmission with anything more than the stock cooler, we'll have to wait to see if any additional cooling is even needed. By adding the transmission temp gauge to the gauge cluster should tell me if it's running hot or not. I guess the biggest question will be, how hot is too hot?

Couldn't agree more, any pics?

Trans temps are pretty standard, you don't want to go over 215 ish and short bursts passed that are ok but above that, you start cooking the oil. Wouldn't hurt to switch to synthetic.

 

[JayTheCPA]

So far the hardest part of the build, is the waiting for parts, the engine, from all parts of the country and to get everything all together in one place at the right time. It's kind of like being the general contractor on a house build, organizing all the sub-contractors to coordinate together.

Mine took 8 months for exactly this reason . . .

 

[3bals]

I have an agreement with the company that is doing the install for me to visit and take pictures as to project moves along. They were even impressed with my knowledge of this engine and it' systems (quirks). I told them I own 3 vehicles with this same engine. They will probably be calling me from time to time to help them with certain details. (and you know if there are questions that come up that I can't handle, I'll be on here asking) Being a local company that has been here for 40+ years helps along with the fact I know several people that work there, including the one spearheading my project. So, pictures will be coming. Now all I need is the engine to show up from Peninsular.

I have a question. When it comes time to fire it up for the first time (new engine, new IP, new injectors, new FFM. new lift pump, fuel lines and new injector lines), my plan is to start it on the old PCM. Then, once it's running and maybe drive it around the parking lot, then swap out the PCM for Heath's upgrade? Also will I get codes right away, because of no vacuum sensed and possibly over boost with the stock PCM? :???:

 

[JayTheCPA]

My vote is to put in Heath's ECM first, especially if the tune was coded to remove the vacuum system. A second reason is that if the coding is not correct, you find out earlier in Heath's warantee window.

If you do use the original ECM which is looking for the non-existent vacuum system, then Yes, I'd expect to get a P1656 code on every start (know this one from recent experience ).

 

[3bals]

This is kind of why I was leaning towards starting with the OEM PCM.

As per the instructions from Heath:

"Note that the first start will not be as good as those that follow. Then, when the engine is re-started and when it has reached 170*F, the computer will automatically 'LEARN' the injection pump position------right or wrong. If the injection pump is correctly phased to the engine, if it is within normal timing range, the learn will be good. If, on the other hand the injection pump is not within range, the computer will learn that wrong position and may not run well. If this happens, call for specific instruction."

Also, I cannot delete the vacuum pump, because I use the vacuum to operate the heater/defrost on this chassis. The other day I was looking at the engine bay and noticed another vacuum line coming off the waste gate solenoid on a T. I followed it to the front of the firewall to the heater control. So, maybe I can leave some of those items hooked up and the system won't even know?

 

[turbovanman]

I'd use the known working PCM first, many an engine has been ruined from swapping everything and it won't start, to find out the new/reman whatever PCM was a dud. OR could try the Heath PCM now before it comes apart. Codes, especially boost which would be hard to create in the parking lot, are a moot point until you drive it.

 

[JayTheCPA]

As per the instructions from Heath:

". . . If this happens, call for specific instruction."

When I got Heath's tune a couple years ago, it had details on the key-on-key-off (KOKO) sequence to set the re-learn process and the current instructions do not have it (changed to the 'call me' narrative).

Without seeing the software, it looks like Heath's ECM already has the re-learn set.

For the 'old' ECM, am confident that somebody will need to set the re-learn process at first start either via KOKO or scanner otherwise the ECM and IP will stay out of synch for a while.


When the Burb was first fired-up with the P-400, it had an ECM with the vacuum code still enabled and it ran Ok but threw the P1656 at every start. I had the shop switch back to ECM with the vacuum code disabled as I did not want the ECM out of synch with the motor for too long. And even after switching back to the original ECM (no vacuum code), I still forced a re-learn.

 

[3bals]

Well, those are the first instructions here too. I just didn't list them, as I figured they are the same as any PCM re-learn

1. Turn key 'ON' (do not engage starter) for a minimum of 5 min.
2. Turn key 'OFF' for a minimum of 1 min.
3. Glow plug & start engine.

I was more concerned with the new PCM learning the wrong info, since it's a fresh motor with a fresh (brand new) IP, if things aren't quite right after the install.

 

[JayTheCPA]

Well, those are the first instructions here too. I just didn't list them, as I figured they are the same as any PCM re-learn

1. Turn key 'ON' (do not engage starter) for a minimum of 5 min.
2. Turn key 'OFF' for a minimum of 1 min.
3. Glow plug & start engine.

I was more concerned with the new PCM learning the wrong info, since it's a fresh motor with a fresh (brand new) IP, if things aren't quite right after the install.

IIRC, that is for the security system (if the MH has it). You will know if you need to do the 5 'On' 1 'Off' if the 'Wait to Start' light does not turn on.

IP re-learn is 'Key On' (not started) *and* throttle to 100% (floored) for 45 seconds, 'Key Off' for 30 seconds, then start normally.

 

[Paveltolz]

IIRC, that is for the security system (if the MH has it). You will know if you need to do the 5 'On' 1 'Off' if the 'Wait to Start' light does not turn on.

IP re-learn is 'Key On' (not started) *and* throttle to 100% (floored) for 45 seconds, 'Key Off' for 30 seconds, then start normally.

Heath's instructions for swapping out ECMs are the same regardless of Security system or lack of. I've been testing a few over the last couple of years and the instructions haven't changed. Each time I get a new variant, the lads in the shop include the instructions and I've got more than a few of them laying around. Same as when I would stop in and do a reflash. I'd sit in the truck and...
1. Turn key 'ON' (do not engage starter) for a minimum of 5 min.
2. Turn key 'OFF' for a minimum of 1 min.
3. Glow plug & start engine.
My wait to start light always came on on the initial Key On too.

 

[turbovanman]

That's why for a new setup, run what works, then change.

 

[Husker6.5]

Jody, leave your vacuum pump and hoses and solenoid intact. The only thing you'll need to do for your wastegate-less turbo is pull the hose off from the solenoid to the WG actuator and cap it at the solenoid. The ECM merely actuates the solenoid to control the WG in response to boost pressure. Capping the WG port on the solenoid prevents a loss of vacuum and hence a loss of HVAC control when a signal is sent to actuate the solenoid to allow vacuum to the now non-existent vacuum WG controller.

 

[WarWagon]

Using that logic, why bother putting aftermarket differential covers on that allow increase lube capacity AND increase the cooling of the lube by the heatsink effect of the cast aluminum with internal and external fins?

No hate, just asking for the reasoning/logic in not increasing both capacity and passive radiated cooling of the transmission by going with an aftermarket cast aluminum or steel pan.

Specific to manual transmissions and differentials the only cooling is the outer cast iron housings and some thin covers. (Some transmissions may be aluminum.) There is a cooling benefit to adding a finned differential cover or finned heat sinks to PTO covers. The air temperature under the vehicle is already elevated making good cooling a challenge. The crock pot known as the cast iron NV5600 is hard enough on oil to justify extra cooling expense.

Routing the fluid properly through the air to oil cooler and radiator can make a 30 degree change in 4L80E transmission temperature. My 1993 always ran at 210. Hotter with the air to oil cooler removed. When I ran the fluid through the radiator first and then the air to oil cooler it runs at 180 AND the AC works better. The trans shop routed the lines 'wrong' after adding the cooler during a rebuild.

The heat sink effect of the bigger pan can buy you a little time with a high stall converter, but, you can get the oil real hot real fast. Then you got to dump the heat into the air somehow.

 

[3bals]

Am just coming out of a similar build, and No, you do not want to see the bill :yikes: Only thing that would have made it more expensive was a DMax conversion. At least it was less expensive than buying a new-er truck and modding it

The way I look at it is the truck just got at least another 15 year extension on life :hihi:

When you did your project, what did you do about exhaust/intake studs? Did you buy new or transfer the old ones? If new, where did you get them?

 

[JayTheCPA]

When you did your project, what did you do about exhaust/intake studs? Did you buy new or transfer the old ones? If new, where did you get them?

Shop did the work. Intake studs were re-used. IIRC exhaust studs were replaced and sourced from the dealership.

While the exhaust system was apart I had them VHT the manifolds and downpipe; blanket went back on the turbine. Would have done ceramic (including the turbine) but the project was already over budget; hence the VHT.

Heath's instructions for swapping out ECMs are the same regardless of Security system or lack of. . .

Not arguing the 5 On / 1 Off sequence. At best it will enable the truck to start, at worst the truck was already good to go without the sequence. I have also had to do this after disconnecting the batteries, so it has a wider use than just a new ECM.

Only pointing out that the IP re-learn is a different sequence for an ECM that has already executed it (ex: re-using the old ECM after re-mounting the IP).

 

[3bals]

I looked on Summit Racing and they have exhaust studs, but it looks like they are metric. Are they metric on the 6.5? I don't remember.

 

[Paveltolz]

Not arguing the 5 On / 1 Off sequence. At best it will enable the truck to start, at worst the truck was already good to go without the sequence. I have also had to do this after disconnecting the batteries, so it has a wider use than just a new ECM.

Only pointing out that the IP re-learn is a different sequence for an ECM that has already executed it (ex: re-using the old ECM after re-mounting the IP).

I'm hip. Just thought from a reference point it would be good to know. With all the swaps I've done of late, I often wonder what would be the harm of just 'plug and play' but I try to error on the side of safety. I can wait 6 minutes....