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6.5 hard/no start then stalls

F

fpfiesterv5

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Ill try and keep it short as most will be covered in checklist but basically have a 3500hd that would surge at highway speeds when throttle was released all the way and smoked excessively under load or heavy acceleration. Other than that had no problems aside from an oil leak from oil pan and rear main seal that was kept topped up. Once day stalled out moving through a parking lot at a stop sign, started right back up. Did this once more when I restarted it to leave after sitting about 10 minutes then drove fine 10ish miles roundtrip sat for 9 hours then drove back fine. Went to restart it two days later and couldnt get it. Security light was flashing excessively so replaced module and did key relearn. Light worked correctly now, Still no start. Towed and let sit for a month and was able to get started with ether (i know ether is terrible for IDIs but it was a move it so the city didnt impound it or scrap it moment) ran and idled fine for 5ish minutes then died again got it restarted and started to drive it then died when i put it in reverse. I ran through the no-start diag which led me to replace pmd. installed today and started after abou 12 seconds of cranking, idled fine then died again after about 2 minutes. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I’m located in San Antonio and would be happy to pay someone with a little more knowledge to take a look.

The Diagnostic Checklist:
Please fill out to best of your knowledge.


1. Describe the problem you are having in detail: when cold it takes a few trys to get in started and for some reason pumping the accelerator pedal helps.

2. Year of truck/engine.1999
3. Odometer reading (indicate miles or kilometers).152k mi
4. Indicate the model number on the Injection pump (starts DS4 or DB2......). ds4
5. Indicate if you know if it’s a 1500, 2500, 2500HD, 3500, 3500HD. 3500hd
6. Do you have an EGR on the engine? (An F or an S engine code 8th VIN digit)code f
7. Air Filter condition (visual check). good
8. Fuel filter condition (freshly changed, mileage since changed). 250 ish miles
9. Location of PMD/FSD? (ex. on pump/remote over intake, behind bumper).offset top of intake
9a. If remote mounted, describe wiring harness (homemade or purchased from which vendor). purchased
9b. Indicate the location and condition of the FSD/IP just replaced
10. Outside Temperature (C or F). _____85-100 f

11. Service Engine Light while running?- on/off/intermittent off until unplugged optical sensor for test
11a. Service Engine light does glow during start/cranking/bulb check: Yes/No yes
12.Have you scanned for engine codes? Yes/No yes
12a. List exact results on engine codes.

13. Condition of Battery terminals (removed, cleaned and tightened).good
14. Known condition and age of Batteries.april 21
14a. Are batteries a matched set of same age? yes
15. Condition of Major Grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened) good

16. Does engine crank, or "turn over"? yes
16a. Does engine start and run? once in a blue moon
17. If engine does not start- Crack injector line: do you have fuel? Yes/No
18. Does your Wait To Start light come on? yes
18a.Number of seconds WTS light is lit. 7
19. Engine Cranking speed (if you have an accurate tachometer).

20. Are you experiencing Stalling? yes
20a. Describe the event (upon startup only, down the road, hit a bump, etc...) upon startup
20b. Do you notice loss of dash or instruments? no
21. Check turbo inlet and air filter for obstructions. all clear
22. In a no-hot start, pour a bottle of room-temp water on the injection pump. Does it start now?
23. Lift pump test - Describe results. working with 6psi at t-handle

24. Upon cold start, does the radiator hose get hard quickly? Yes/No no
25. Upon cold start, do you have excessive white smoke? Yes/No no
26. Do you have excessive cranking time before the engine starts? Yes/No yes
27. Have you used the block heater? Does it affect engine starting? (only try for starting problems). not tried
28. Are all glow plugs in proper working order? yes

29. During hard acceleration, do you have excessive black smoke? Yes/No yes
30. Do you have any unusual exhaust smoke issues? hard acceleration or underload/uphill
31. Turbo check out - Pass/Fail pass
32. Indicate fuel that you are using: pump diesel
32a. If running Veggie Oil fuel setup, indicate details of your conversion (homemade or packaged system).
33. Are you using any fuel additives? no
34. Upon unscrewing fuel cap, do you have a large vacuum formed in the tank? Yes/No no
35. Do you have any service history available that might pertain to the problem you are having?
36. Please indicate any modifications to the vehicle that might help us diagnose better.
3500hd flatbed weighing 9200 dual alts turbo master set at 10 psi fluiddampr
 
Welcome to the forum @fpfiesterv5 I see your in my neck of the woods! (Seguin, Tx) lol. Yes on the IP fuel return line, run down to a local home depot and grab you some clear 1/4" hose from the plumbing section and install a piece on the return side of the IP. it's about a 6" section of hose right behind the t-stat housing connecting to the steel lines which run to the injector return lines and back to the tank. try getting it running and watch for air bubbles in the line.

if you have to, use your phone and record a video focusing on the clear line while cranking. there will be a little air there right after you replace it, but afterwards it should be nothing but fuel flowing with maybe a tiny single bubble that will trap it's self in the bend of the hose. if you see more air than that, there is an issue where air is getting into the line somewhere between the tank and the IP. most obvious areas to get air in, is the fuel filter plastic cap and bleed screw on the top side of the cap. other areas are the connections at the lift pump, mainly rear connection between the tank and LP.
 
That’s what I figured might have happened too but I just bought a fresh flight systems from Leroydiesel and it didn’t change the symptoms at all. Are the flight systems known for being duds out of the box? I was planning on relocating to the bumper just wanted to get the truck moving again before Invested the other 150ish for the cable and heat sink
 
Flight System is good.
Make sure PMD is on a heatsink even if you are just testing it.

The stock cable under the intake can go bad also.
Make sure the fuel system is operational like Lift Pump, Filter, etc.
Load test the batteries one at a time.
Make sure all grounds are good, connectors are tight and clean.

If you have a heatsink, you can reuse it and just get an extension from Leroy.
 
So tried the clear hose test and it started with the help of a little wd40 and fluttering the skinny pedal it died within a minute and couldn’t get it started again, but no bubbles in the line. also tried unplugging the optical sensor hoping it was the issue but that didn’t help either. as for the Pmd and heat sink: the old Pmd was rerouted with a computer fan on a plate by the county when they owned it so I would have to buy the entire reroute kit which is more than I can afford at the moment. I don’t have a problem throwing money at parts when it’s an almost sure thing, but running without a heatsink for less than 5 minutes in my mind shouldn’t cause these issues as even the factory located pmds lasted Atleast long enough to get them off the truck. Thank you all for the help thus far though, even having anything to try and test gives me some hope for the truck.
 
As far as the fuel system goes, I’m getting 6 psi at the t handle when I manually turn on the fuel pump relay with my code reader and when the key is cranking so im assuming the lift pump is good is the t handle pre or post filter? Could something in the filter housing be clogging my fuel after the t handle? Is there a way to test the injector pump itself like should it be putting out a certain psi at the injector? Should I run a compression test?
 
Running a PMD without a heatsink for even a second can kill it. I bought my relocation kit from amazon that came with a PMD for $60. Yeah I know, it's a cheap china made one, but I haven't had any issues with it or the extension harness yet. most of us mount them with the fins facing outward in the hole of the front bumper so air can cool it when driving. these things are very prone to heat taking them out.

On your truck not starting. do a test by disconnecting the optic sensor and see if it will start up, it will take a little more cranking time to fire off. also do the same with the crank position sensor. it will run with one or the other disconnected and can help you figure if one or the other is faulty.

do you have a scanner that can read live data? you can also look for RPM signal when cranking, you should see at least 200 RPM.
 
Yes you can have a restricted line going to the ip. Seen it several times.
With clear line from ffm tp ip, and the 1/4” return line- you should see the fuelmflow while trying to start. Crack an injector line at the injector and make sure it is spitting out fuel as it cranks.

And yes like mentioned, running a pmd for a second or two without a sink wether ip or finned sink can burn it out immediately
 
I’ll try replacing the hose from ffm to ip after work today I tried the optical sensor unplug and it didn’t allow me to start at all. I think it’s just bc I unplugged the op but I got an 0251 code not sure if that’s any different starting problem than what I’m currently fighting but I wouldn’t think so tbh. I’ll try the crank sensor after work and hook the Pmd up to a sink. Not sure that the scanner I have will read that data but I’ll check.
 
try reconnecting the optic sensor and then disconnect the CPS (crank position sensor) and see what you get. it will have a longer crank time before it fires up but if it runs better. you have found the issue.
 
So looked at the fuel shutoff at the advice of another forum and it was in working order but noticed the hose next to it, or maybe the shutoff itself if I looked at it wrong, is leaking fuel then found a ton of fuel in the valley from what I could tell there has to be a second leak to cause that much fuel to gather. I’m still open to looking further in and going to spend some time going through a couple different checklists tomorrow but I’m considering swapping this engine out. I’ve thrown a lot of time money and parts at an engine I was never too fond of. (Slow, lack of power even pulling low weights, leaked oil absolutely everywhere, turbo issues, on top of getting 8-10mpg tops) I can’t bring myself to get rid of the truck as is was my fathers last vehicle but can’t let it just sit with a bum engine to rot. Is there a swap that y’all would recommend for an averagely equipped shade tree mechanic? I’m currently looking at either an old carbed 350 or a 6.0/8.1 ls
 
fpfiesterv5 said:
So looked at the fuel shutoff at the advice of another forum and it was in working order but noticed the hose next to it, or maybe the shutoff itself if I looked at it wrong, is leaking fuel then found a ton of fuel in the valley from what I could tell there has to be a second leak to cause that much fuel to gather. I’m still open to looking further in and going to spend some time going through a couple different checklists tomorrow but I’m considering swapping this engine out. I’ve thrown a lot of time money and parts at an engine I was never too fond of. (Slow, lack of power even pulling low weights, leaked oil absolutely everywhere, turbo issues, on top of getting 8-10mpg tops) I can’t bring myself to get rid of the truck as is was my fathers last vehicle but can’t let it just sit with a bum engine to rot. Is there a swap that y’all would recommend for an averagely equipped shade tree mechanic? I’m currently looking at either an old carbed 350 or a 6.0/8.1 ls
Click to expand...
Will L. said:
@fpfiesterv5
DID YOU SEE THE ABOVE POSTS??
YOU PROBABLY FOUND THE PROBLEM.
Click to expand...
Forgot to add in that I unplugged the crank sensor and it wouldn’t start either already remounted Pmd to a heatsink
 
The cps and optic work together. If one is dead (unplugged) it is hard to start and runs horrible.
If both it will not start.

The way to test cps is unplug optic and if it starts but takes a long time & runs bad the optic is good. NO start means cps is probably bad. The. Plug in cps and unplug optic for same test.


Obviously find and fix the leak. Make sure you shut off the T from the test the other day...
 
Ok I see what you’re saying I’ve got the next two days off so I plan on getting a solid charge and running a list of tests done. starting with what seems to be a consensus of the crank sensor test then I’m going to see what the pressure looks like to the pump itself/ try cracking the injectors then move on to finding and fixing the leak as I’ll probably have to remove the intake manifold to find it
 
Fuel sample I took also looked a little more on the blue green side rather than a yellow deep straw colored fuel like I can get from shell I know the optical sensor needs straw colored fuel should I run the more straw colored fuel from a separate container?
 
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