2000 K3500 Gone Mechanical Build

[3500_6.5]

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[3500_6.5]

Drilled out the fitting on the ip to run a 5/16" line to the pump. Not as big as the 3/8" ftb lines, but still a big improvement over stock.

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[3500_6.5]

I definitely need more air at lower rpms. Still need to get the regulator hooked up but needed to use the truck to haul a few things. Pulled around 5000 lbs today. With the converter locked up and running 50-55 mph, having to give it much throttle at all and it puts out a lot of smoke and 3-6 psi of boost. Egts climb to around 1000 degrees. Give it enough to unlock the converter and boost will just to 9-12 psi, smoke clears up and egts lower. Thinking about trying the diverter valve. Or go with my earlier idea of compound turbos but I think I want to keep the ATT setup on this truck now. So leaning more toward the diverter valve. We'll see how things go after I get the regulator and timing dialed in, but am doubting it will affect the low boost/over fuel low rpm condition.

Have to thank John at Unique Diesel though. Did a heck of a job on the pump and got it putting out the fuel I was wanting almost exactly. And this thing will definitely scream now!

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[uniquediesel]

Glad you're up and running there. Smokey is kinda of fun right?

I think you're up to turbo shopping and building an intercooler to keep IAT's and EGT's in check.

Personally I recommend either a HX-40 Super, or Hybid HX35/40 with 60mm compressor, or S300 series with these specs 62/65/12 (62/65/.70). Don't bother with the "S300G" that's a 57mm ETT compressor turbo that is an absolute turd. Hanging ATA cooler using 12x24x3 intercooler works extremely well.

Did you do the injectors at the same time?

 

[3500_6.5]

It is fun lol.

I did the injectors at the same time. Figured while I had it apart I might as well do it all.

I actually have an intercooler with those exact dimensions sitting in my garage I got off Ebay last year. I actually bought it for my previous truck but sold it before I installed it. Figured it would be going on this truck when it got the built engine put into it. Looks like it might be going in a little earlier though. Was planning on mounting it in front of the radiator instead of below like normal. I think it will work better there, plus I'm not too fond of taking my truck into a corn field with my intercooler right where the corn stalks like to jab into...

I was hoping the turbo I have now would work for me. I actually talked to someone who has a larger housing for it that I thought I might try along with a diverter valve. Hoping the diverter valve would help with the much needed lower rpm air and the larger housing would help at higher rpms. Once the turbo starts spooling, it has kept up so far. Haven't ran it wot yet, but figured the larger housing could do the trick if it has problems at full throttle. Biggest issue is low rpm spooling. Just need to get more air to it under 2000 rpm with a load behind it. Otherwise it does pretty well as of now. Running empty the turbo is about perfect as far as normal driving is concerned.

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[Twisted Steel Performance]

I have been reading your thread here, I don't know anything about the ATT, what turbine hsg is on it now?? Just from reading it sounds like if you need a little sooner spool up a bigger hsg will slow the spool up more than a smaller one??? Again, I don't know the ATT, but John also helped with my stuff 2 yrs ago and altho not quite the same, mine does good in the lower rpm's & up top....

This is just my 2cents worth but adding a deverter valve to get a turbo that isn't doing what is needed/wanted is counter productive cost wise if nothing else, myself, I decided to skip the valve and build a single turbo and after some $$ found what works great for the way mine is used.... and I know one size doesn't fit all.....

 

[3500_6.5]

Yes, the larger housing would slow spool up even more. I haven't decided if I will even do that, but my idea behind that was just more air flow at higher rpms. Would help with iat. I haven't put everything I already have for the truck on it, so that may not even be an issue when it's all said and done. I really haven't decided for sure on any of it yet, just leaning towards the diverter valve. If I can get a used one for a good price, I think it would definitely be worth it to try it. With the diverter valve, I think with the stock housing or even the larger one, spooling at low rpms won't be an issue. From looking at an ATT and hx40 side by side, in appearance, the ATT is all around larger. If the internals are larger as well (I don't know the specs on the turbo) then it should out flow the 40. Problem is, with the amount of fuel I have, under 2000rpm or so, it's too big to spool enough to get enough air in to burn all the fuel when I'm chugging along with a trailer and the converter locked up. I think if I were going 65 instead of 55, there would be no issues bc rpms would be up enough that the turbo spools with ease. Even just giving it enough throttle to unlock the converter is enough to clear it up for the most part. So adding the diverter valve would give me the low rpm spooling I would need at those lower speeds but I will also keep the higher flowing qualities of the ATT at higher rpms where a hx35 or 40 doesnt do as well as the A Team. I might be wrong on my thoughts here and someone can clarify for me if I am. But it just seems the best all around performance would come from my ATT with a diverter valve added to it.

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[4thesporty1]

IMHO, I would take the $600 you would spend on a diverter and put that towards a turbo that doesn't require "add-ons" to work for you. I know there are people here that have made it work for them, but it just doesn't seem pragmatic to me.

This kind of reminds me of cummins guys that run a large S400 frame charger as a single and wonder why they can't control their EGTs when towing. Yes, as S472 will flow great once you get RPMs up around 3000 to spool it as a single, but in order to get that great flow you have to sacrifice most low speed power.

 

[Burning oil]

ATT does not require any add on. Spool valve Is optional as is the tune. Bolt an ATT on and you will see much improvement off the line and up top. With that logic, why buy a truck that needs any mods?
In the quest for "more" I/you/him do all kinds of thing like, water/meth, IC's, head studs, tunes....ect. There is no one product thats get you everything on these old trucks.
The ATT is but one piece of the puzzle. Another turbo will sacrifice something aswell. Atleast going with a bigger turbo it gives you the ability to use a spool valve if wanted and still have the advantage of better MPGs and top end power/TQ and with less stress on the engine.

 

[4thesporty1]

Leroy,

the key bit of my post was "that doesn't require "add-ons" to work for you"

I stand by my opinion.

 

[uniquediesel]

The ATT has a 54mm compressor inducer and has spool characteristics of a T04B turbo.

A Holset fitted with a 60mm 6-blade compressor and wastegated turbine housing will perform way better. The turbo I like is the Hybrid turbo using either an HX35 or WH1C. My personal favorite is a WH1C with HX40 Super 60mm compressor wheel machined. This still utilizes the quick spool of the .70 A/R turbine housing (12cm2) so you get great towing performance and the wastegate to open and upper RPM's. I also ditch the Holset boost referenced wastegated for a more traditional and easier to adjust turbomaster style controller. You can optionally install the .80 A/R turbine housing (wastegated or not, 14cm2) and get lower EGT's and higher power output. There is a difference in power between the two housings. Although the seat of the pants feel is better with the smaller housing on the street. The non-gated 14/.80 would be fine on a 6.5L, the 12/.70 must be wastegated though. For your MFI engine with the fuel rates you have, the 14 wastegated would be your best bet.

I can build one of these turbos, info is on my site.

J

 

[Burning oil]

Leroy,

the key bit of my post was "that doesn't require "add-ons" to work for you"

I stand by my opinion.

Guess I misunderstood your post. I took it as since the discusion was about adding a QSV to an ATT that you were saying To the effect: since an ATT requires a spool valve (witch it does not) that you would save the money blah blah blah....

At the same time I am planing to put a QSV on mine just to see what it does and if I like it, but again its optional.

 

[3500_6.5]

ATT does not require any add on. Spool valve Is optional as is the tune. Bolt an ATT on and you will see much improvement off the line and up top. With that logic, why buy a truck that needs any mods?
In the quest for "more" I/you/him do all kinds of thing like, water/meth, IC's, head studs, tunes....ect. There is no one product thats get you everything on these old trucks.
The ATT is but one piece of the puzzle. Another turbo will sacrifice something aswell. Atleast going with a bigger turbo it gives you the ability to use a spool valve if wanted and still have the advantage of better MPGs and top end power/TQ and with less stress on the engine.

Agreed. The diverter valve isn't necessary, even now...if I am careful. When I was still electronic and had a KOJO tune, it was perfectly fine. I could hold it to the floor and egts wouldn't climb above 1150*, loaded or unloaded. With a load I could also easily cruise at 55 with any load and never see egts above 1000* and would be hard pressed to smoke. With my mechanical marine pump before John built it, same thing. Only it smoked quite a bit more but egts were not an issue. Spooled slowest with the DS4, only around 2 psi at 2000 rpm at wot and would steadily climb to 18 psi. With the marine pump it was roughly the same psi, maybe 3 @ 2000 rpm but spooled to 16 psi almost instantly once it got over 2000 rpm. Now I would say it is maybe 5 psi at 2000 rpm (hard to tell bc at anything 2/3 throttle and up, it will almost instantly jump to 19psi+ once it starts to spool at around 1800ish rpm). Cruising at 55 with a load and the converter locked I have seen up to around 6 psi depending on the grade and throttle I am giving it, which is far more than I ever saw with the DS4 under the same conditions, and a good 2-3psi more than with the stock marine pump. But, as said, now egts are an issue at that point. I have still hauled 3000-7500 lbs with it over the past week and have yet to hit 1200*, I just have to keep an eye on the gauge and be careful with the throttle whereas before it was never an issue. And it is very easy to smoke out everything in my rearview @55 with any type of load behind the truck But the turbo is useable as is, will be getting used on its own until I decide what I am doing. I tend to never be satisfied. Truth be told, of all the things I have done to reach my power goals, the pump is the first thing that has met my expectations 100%. So great job on that one, John!

 

[3500_6.5]

The ATT has a 54mm compressor inducer and has spool characteristics of a T04B turbo.

A Holset fitted with a 60mm 6-blade compressor and wastegated turbine housing will perform way better. The turbo I like is the Hybrid turbo using either an HX35 or WH1C. My personal favorite is a WH1C with HX40 Super 60mm compressor wheel machined. This still utilizes the quick spool of the .70 A/R turbine housing (12cm2) so you get great towing performance and the wastegate to open and upper RPM's. I also ditch the Holset boost referenced wastegated for a more traditional and easier to adjust turbomaster style controller. You can optionally install the .80 A/R turbine housing (wastegated or not, 14cm2) and get lower EGT's and higher power output. There is a difference in power between the two housings. Although the seat of the pants feel is better with the smaller housing on the street. The non-gated 14/.80 would be fine on a 6.5L, the 12/.70 must be wastegated though. For your MFI engine with the fuel rates you have, the 14 wastegated would be your best bet.

I can build one of these turbos, info is on my site.

J

Checked out your site, the turbo info has changed since last time I looked at it We might be talking soon...

I might as well have had you build my engine for me, as I have also been contemplating your rods and rocker arm assemblies for the engine that will be going into the truck. Too bad you're so many states away...

 

[6.5L]

The diverter valve is not necessary, no. That being said, it would effectively create a mechanical VGT out of the ATT. Since most turbos are now VGT, it kind of seems like a step in the right direction. It's like you guys are bashing quick spooling high rpm performance. The larger exhaust housing of the ATT (and I have an even larger one still I can donate) would have incredible flow numbers compare to a smaller 12 or 14cm housing. So it's like the best of both worlds. I really see nothing wrong with that. I know some of you more narrow minded folk will try to counter with "well you went to a HX35, so the ATT can't be good", and that thinking is exactly why your narrow minded. If anybody is curious ( and a few have asked me so far ) I switched because I got a great deal on the HX35 and I wanted to try it out as well so I could compare first hand between the two turbos. I ended up having to sell the ATT setup for money to further my build. If I wouldn't have to, I wouldnt have sold it. The more knowledge the better, correct? The ATT is still a fantastic product and I still back it 100%. You don't need a spool valve but for my instance it did help. Living at 5200+ ft above sea level and having a 5 speed, getting back into boost is key when shifting. It seemed a logical choice. I don't regret the decision to buy a diverter valve and I encourage it still, and I think 3500_6.5 would only benefit from the mechanical VGT nature. Just my two cents

 

[3500_6.5]

Well, the lift pump died today. Haven't had a chance to check if it is the lift pump or something else. But performance was unchanged. Only thing I noticed was a much quieter drive after it died and a slight hiccup when it stopped running. Other than that, it ran identical. Boost was the same, egts were the same, and it seemed to run perfect at any throttle I gave it.

So this leads me to two conclusions:

1) The pump is a flow on fail pump. I drove it for 15 minutes without the pump running and noticed no decrease in performance at any time other than the hiccup. I loosened the blender in th filter to see if it was pumping anything at all when I shut the truck off and not a drop came out, so it was definitely completely dead and was pumping zero fuel.

2) This leads me to believe that these hundred of dollars lift pumps everyone puts on their trucks is nothing but a hyped up fad that adds nothing to the performance of our trucks. I think I am going to just throw the stock lift pump back on and hook up my fuel pressure gauge between the filter and ip and see what kind of pressure I get. I would imagine that even if the ip gets even 1 psi of pressure, it is more than enough to keep from starving the pump at high rpms. Will find out really quick if the several hundred dollar lift pumps are a waste. Glad mine was only a $50 experiment

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[Burning oil]

With a mechanical IP its not a critical to have a working LP. It still requires one though and if you have higher HP you need a good one. But yeah sometimes people drive for years and never knew the LP was dead.

On DS4 its much more pronounced if LP is not working and just going from 4-5 psi to 9-14 PSI makes a huge difference in responsiveness/drivability.

 

[3500_6.5]

I won't argue that it doesn't need one, I just don't think anything more than a good stock one is more than enough. I put that 14 psi high output lift pump on when I was running a ds4 and tuned ecm and there was no noticeable difference in performance. Might help some, but not enough to ever notice in my opinion, especially on any normal 6.5, stock or even with the typical tune or turned up pump. Only difference I noticed was the annoying humming of the pump inside the cab. Even if it gained 20 hp with that pump, I wouldn't put it back on just for the fact that it's a much quieter drive now. Forgot what my truck actually sounded like... But to each their own. Everyone has an opinion and their own ideas on what works. I'm just going by my own experiences and observations. Unless I find that at high rpms I am starving for fuel, I'll continue to run the stock pump from here on out.

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[Burning oil]

Yep opinions

As for me the right LP on a DS4 makes such a big difference that its in my top three first mods when someone asks about it.
Even Stanadyne calls for 9 PSI, the stock pump can never get there. The trucks were by default "detuned" from the factory because of it IMO.

 

[3500_6.5]

You know what they say about opinions, they're like ***holes. Everyone has one and most of them stink...unless it's your own of course. Lol

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