1998 6.5 Air intake heater

[Dylly]

I think if i end up doing it, i'll wire it to a switch in cab, but have the switch wired to my headlight circuit... or just straight to accessory (depends on if that works with my command start), because i know for sure my headlights come on when i hit the command start (Stupid Canadian day time driving lights). Main reason being is that during the winter i'd probably have the element run constantly, and the switch would just be there for when it warms up in the spring to shut it down for good.

 

[Dylly]

But first i'm going to get my ScanXL up and running so i can see the before and after AIT readings just to see what the difference is when the turbo is blowing cold air over it... Just to see if it can keep up or not.

 

[Mudbath]

"Main reason being is that during the winter i'd probably have the element run constantly"

I don't think you would want or need it on all the time. Cold air for combustion = good, just not at COLD startup.

 

[chrisk1500]

You wouldn't want to run it all the time...just for initial start up....

 

[Dylly]

Well ... thats a topic that could be debated... Dont quote me on my numbers, but it's something like 80% of engine wear happens from start up to normal opperating temperature... If the engine isnt able to build enough heat to obtain what would be considered normal operating termperature, then obviously there's problems. And cold air is only good for combustion to a certain extent, during our canadian winters -20 to -30 degree C weather certainly isnt a good temperature for combustion, of course the engine slowly warms, warming the intake, warming the intake air, and the compression of the air from the turbo increases the temperature potentially bringing it into a more efficient flash zone... which i'll need to do a scan to see what AIT's are in the winter here after all the random heat transfer. But in the summers intercooling the air makes the air more dense facilitating combustion, keeping combustion temperatures down, and in turn keeping EGT's down. I have to brush up on my thermodynamics a bit, but 'cool' air = good for combustion, 'cold' air = bad, esspecially for efficiency.

I hate to say all that without having raw numbers infront of me, but if the engines intake air temperature sensor isnt reading something above at least zero C, i would guess that efficiency is not at a premium.

 

[Mudbath]

"but it's something like 80% of engine wear happens from start up to normal opperating temperature"

Quite possible that is where a good Synthetic oil comes into play and a well maintained cooling system. Leaving an element that size on all the time would cause it to burn out quickly as it was designed for short term use.

Block heaters and oil pan heaters can also help out.

 

[Dylly]

That definitely isnt out of the question... but it being an old tractor intake element... did they actually have something that governed how long the element cylcled for? Or did it just stay on constantly... Because those old 60's tractors dont have glow plugs to even help out with the start... straight to the ether can.

 

[chrisk1500]

The only thing that controls those elements are the brains in the operator....

Note my location...I have driven (and owned) many 300 000 km+ 6.5 diesels....none of them had an intake heater....(the last one I owned was going to get one this winter but things went in a different direction)....

EDIT - profile is turned off I guess...

I am from central Saskatchewan...

 

[Dylly]

Ok, that answers my question, i wasnt sure whether those elements were on a switch, or hard wired to the ignition... we have an old case 400 that i'm not even sure has an intake heater, and if it does i have no idea where the switch is, same with our JD 4230 (new to the farm), 2- massy 90's, case 2090 (new to the farm), and IH 766... Its a hobby horse ranch, not exactly a farm.... and i know about your old 6.5, i was going to purchase it for all the parts this fall, but you convinced me that my 98 wasnt completely compatable with all the aftermarket parts you put into it.

 

[chrisk1500]

The element on the Case 930 in the yard is turned on via a relay (like a Ford starter relay). That relay is connected to a switch on the dash.

My Case 1370 does not have one - just an ether button - your 2090 will be the same (we used to own one many years ago).

 

[Dylly]

Well that explains it, since im not exactly familiar with anything ford, would that relay only flip on for a certain ammount of time, or is it up to the user to flip that switch off after the start?

 

[ak diesel driver]

How many amps that thing pull?

 

[JiFaire]

How many amps that thing pull?

Probably a lot, hence Chris' and Mudbath's comments about not leaving it on. Personally, I would be more concerned about the strain and draw on the wiring... and I DEFINITELY would not hook it up to the headlight circuit for that reason. I would use a relay, probably a Ford starter relay with a fusible link, drawing straight from the battery.

Trust me, you haven't lived until your dash headlight switch has gone up in flames. Don't ask me how I know that.

Dylly, pretty much all the posters in this thread are from up north here, so we all know about cold. Heating your intake air all the time isn't necessary with a diesel, but is when you're trying to start things up.

As for your cooling system, in the spring you need to pull-and-clean the exterior of your rad (and yes, you HAVE to pull it to do it right), put it back in and then flush the whole system to remove any loose sediment, do your thermostats (ACDelco is my recommendation, and 195 is fine; having a 180 will lower your base (Tstat closed) temp but do nothing about your top (Tstat wide open) temp), check your Thermofan clutch engagement temp and mod if required.

Your truck absolutely should NOT overheat when not working hard, regardless of ambient temps.

In the winter, a full winterfront works wonders (drink up a flat of Kokanee and use the box to block out all the frigid air - the advantage here is the box wears out and you have to drink more Kokanee to replace it).

Speaking today from Calgary, in the heart of the New(frozen) West, where it's a balmy -26*C with a 15kmh north wind,

Jim

 

[jrsavoie]

I ordered a 195 degree high flow Stewart thernostat part number 306 for the 1989 GMC 6.5 diesel
EMP Stewart Components
2900 27th Avenue
Escanaba, MI 49829
Telephone: (906) 789-2816
Fax: (906) 789-7825
I had very good luck with these thermostats. Winter & summer.

 

[JiFaire]

I ordered a 195 degree high flow Stewart thernostat part number 306 for the 1989 GMC 6.5 diesel

I had very good luck with these thermostats. Winter & summer.

Thanks, JR! I had heard they were also OK, but hadn't heard from any of our 6.5 guys about it until now, so your recommendation means a lot to me.

I DO know (personal experience) that NAPA, Stant, CanadianTire, etc are all cheaper than AC Delco for the single Tstat application. I also know that none of them are worth the tinfoil they are stamped out of.

When Bill Heath and I took my cooling system apart, he showed me the difference between the Stant I was running and the ACDelco that I should have been using. OMG.

The bypass (again, single Tstat system) plunger was the wrong length, the spring was junk, the whole thing was cheap compared to the good one. Changed it and had no issues for over 3 years, year-round, including pulling heavy 5er in Nevada in July heat.

 

[jrsavoie]

Other than the Stewart, AC thermostats are the only thermostats I will use.

 

[Dylly]

JiFaire, i definitely noticed that people posting on this thread are ranging from Alaska to the northern states which makes sense for obvious reasons. As for hooking it up to the headlights, I agree, that could be a major issue, although when I had that brain wave, I was trying to think of something that would work with my command start, and I know for sure my headlights come on so now I need to find a different way of being able to tell the intake heater to start up without me being in the truck to flip a switch on and off.

I did a bunch of research before I went out and bought the truck this September but it was more along the lines of what engine problems do they have? What can I do to prevent them? Etc, and there I went and purchased a 98, definitely not the primo era for the 6.5 but I couldn’t resist, truck is in beautiful condition, with 330,000 km and had a new engine under warrantee at ~150 000km, so I couldn’t resist.

Onto the cooling system, I was always told that they weren’t good at staying cool in the summer, and were piss poor at building heat in the winter, especially when just cruising around town. My truck would hang around the ~85 degree mark in the summer (or hot September in my case) but if I ever put my foot into it enough to start blowing black it would climb its way up to 100 in a hurry and was reluctant to drop, and if I just idled it on a 25+ day, it would climb as well…. As for this winter, I have my cloud rider grill inserts in, but by the sounds of it, that isn’t quite enough… at anything around -20 or colder it wont get much warmer than that 70-75 degree range, even cruising on the highway it hangs around 75, and doesn’t throw much heat at all. Now about 8 months ago I went out and bought the books that “the diesel page” put out just cause I needed somewhere to start my research (I know now that the books are only semi helpful) but one section claims that the robertshaw 180 is the way to go, and second option being the ac delco 195 (only because ac delco doesn’t make a 180.. so he claims).

How hot should this engine be running in the winter? (highway temp and just idling temp)… and what about the summer for interest sake?

I very well could be having fan issues along with rad issues, because i’m not certain what the gentleman before me did with the cooling system, but there’s a good chance of it being nothing. In which case I’ll have to pull the rad and clean it out good this summer. Oh and on a side note, this thing was heating in the summer even without my air conditioning working (popped a hole in the top line before I purchased it), so that air cond rad wasn’t even rejecting heat either.

Oh, I had one more comment to make on the intake air heater… I was reading somewhere online how the cummins’ intake heater works, and the way I understood is that if the PCM reads an intake temperature is below -18 degrees C it will run the element while the truck is running unless the intake temperature is above 15 degrees C… I could be misinterpreting the data though…. And that’s where my “run it constantly” idea came from.

Anyway, any thoughts and/or suggestions on the cooling system or intake heater will be much appreciated. Thanks again.

 

[ak diesel driver]

Have you checked your tstats? Almost sounds like the po might have pulled them to help with overheating instead of cleaning rad fan clutch etc. With my coldfront on when I'm running down the hiway it does come up to full temp and will warm my truck nicely even at -40

 

[SmithvilleD]

Well ... thats a topic that could be debated... Dont quote me on my numbers, but it's something like 80% of engine wear happens from start up to normal opperating temperature... If the engine isnt able to build enough heat to obtain what would be considered normal operating termperature, then obviously there's problems. And cold air is only good for combustion to a certain extent, during our canadian winters -20 to -30 degree C weather certainly isnt a good temperature for combustion, of course the engine slowly warms, warming the intake, warming the intake air, and the compression of the air from the turbo increases the temperature potentially bringing it into a more efficient flash zone... which i'll need to do a scan to see what AIT's are in the winter here after all the random heat transfer. But in the summers intercooling the air makes the air more dense facilitating combustion, keeping combustion temperatures down, and in turn keeping EGT's down. I have to brush up on my thermodynamics a bit, but 'cool' air = good for combustion, 'cold' air = bad, esspecially for efficiency.

I hate to say all that without having raw numbers infront of me, but if the engines intake air temperature sensor isnt reading something above at least zero C, i would guess that efficiency is not at a premium.

The startup wear is due to cold oil flow, lubrication limits, & the fit of dissimilar metals w/ different rates of thermal expansion (Al pistons, cast iron block/cylinders) at cold temperatures. Engine parts fit tolerances are set to be right at normal engine operating temps. Heating intake air w/ an electrical resistance heater for start/early run makes sense. For normal running, heating air that way would be ridiculously inefficient.

For down to -30 degrees F anyway, find a way to adequately close off the radiator airflow & possibly also oil cooler airflow. Then use a circulating tank type engine coolant heater - they long been the quickest way to bring block/coolant temps up for good starting in farm equipment that's gotta run everyday regardless of how cold it gets. If the engine can't maintain warm coolant temps on its own w/ radiator airflow blocked to an adequate degree, suspect a thermostat issue.

 

[SmithvilleD]

I ordered a 195 degree high flow Stewart thernostat part number 306 for the 1989 GMC 6.5 diesel
EMP Stewart Components
2900 27th Avenue
Escanaba, MI 49829
Telephone: (906) 789-2816
Fax: (906) 789-7825
I had very good luck with these thermostats. Winter & summer.

x2 - Don't know if any forum vendors sell EMP Stewart. If not, Summit Racing carries their line.

EMP Stewart makes very high quality cooling components. Can be spendy, but top-notch quality.

Banks' Sidewinder 5.9L Dakota ran at Bonneville using 2 of the EMP Stewart 55 gpm electric water pumps to circulate the 40 gal ice water reservior for the WTA intercooler setup.