Will my plans work as well as I hope?

[WarWagon]

Which turbo would you recommend? I've been reading a little about guys using the hx35 instead of gm turbo. But I also realize the 6.2 wasn't designed for turbo so I know I don't want to over boost it. I'm fine with being slow but I don't want to be so slow I become a hazard on the rare occasion I need to use the highway.

What is the budget? Why the 1987? Why remove the 350?

6.2 NA is slow but fine on the highway until you tow. What are you towing exactly? Wind resistance means more than weight on flat ground.

Could you have an Onan RV generator installed under the burb to provide a/several space heater(s)? Trailer hitch genset? And then drop in a 454 instead of the 6.2. It would be easier and cheaper. IDI's don't like to idle and don't provide good heat at idle w/o a load.

The 6.2 is fine with a turbo esp with the suggested ARP head studs.

Off road low speed is the ONLY good use for a small GMx turbo. It dies at any RPM over 2200 needed to tow at freeway speeds. So a smaller turbo is likely a better choice for you offroad and IMO anything is better than a GMx turbo.

Here is a good turbo build:
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/going-mechanical-with-a-moose-omega-marine-ip.45204/

Here is some of my my all out for towing grades build in addition to the article above:
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/let-the-insanity-begin-time-to-yank-it.43647/

 

[Dw89xj]

It just worked out that the truck its coming from is an 87 and I have an 87. I'm trading a mild 350 for an entire drive line plus whatever else I need or want from the truck except axles and interior. I was just thinking its an easy swap with not too much extra involved over a big block. Big block was my first choice but for what I'm doing I just thought the diesel might do what I'm asking and should get double the mileage, at least that's what I was hoping. But if its gonna be that horrible to drive and tow with I might reconsider and sell or trade again. I have several 350 blocks I could easily build a budget 383 and retain the TBI and get decent torque numbers but then I'm looking at probably 10mpg tops.

 

[Dw89xj]

Oh my budget would probably be in the 1000-1200 dollar range after picking everything I can use from the donor truck.

 

[Dw89xj]

The heaviest I can imagine towing would be a car trailer with a suburban on it. And a camper that might weigh in at 4k? Not sure on camper weights but maybe a 24 foot I haven't bought it yet. I also have a small trailer I would haul a Polaris sportsman on. Its an old pop up turned into a camper so its really light.

 

[EWC]

What are you running for a trans ?

 

[Dw89xj]

Currently have th400 and the 6.2 comes with another th400 and np208.

 

[deejaaa]

55 might be top mph w/ th400 and na 6.2.
get diesel rated fuel lines.
get a dedicated temp gauge.
will need key on hot for IP, shut off when key off.
get the sending unit from the diesel tank in the donor truck. it might not work since it's going into a sub though. don't use any TBI stuff.
get the diesel fuel cap also.
is the sub impaired equipped?
good luck with the build.

 

[Dw89xj]

No its not impaired equipped yet I'm a t10/11 injury level so I just need hand controls.
I had thought about taking the whole tank, as long as the ring is the same size I think I could adapt it to my tank without too much headache.
I really would like to go diesel but I may just stay gasser. I'm not worried about speed so much as being able maintain an acceptable speed while towing. The diesel just seemed to me to be the best idea for extended camping trips and hunting trips. Like I said earlier I had a 7.3 idi and loved it it didn't use much fuel but topped out about 70 to 75 mph in od, I know 2 different animals but similar in design so my thoughts were that the 6.2 should get me the same or better mileage than the 7.3. Eventually I would consider 4l80e but its not in the cards for now. The suburban runs strong and drives now so I don't need to swap but its also a project and we all know they never end.

 

[GM Guy]

I think you will be fine, granted my 6.2L is in a C1500 reg cab, but I towed an empty 20 foot 14K trailer (around 4-5,000 lbs) over highway 50 in Colorado, as well as empty over Vail Pass, and if I would have drove it hard and said to heck with the smoke, I think I could have went over a few grades at 30-40 mph. on the 4spd manual, only hit 2nd a few times, mostly due to backing out of it due to smoke, not power loss.

Even with a load that little truck will fly, I can easily accelerate to danger zone RPM levels, 75 mph. If I had a NV4500, I think that little gal could hit 90. and its a EGR unit too, not even the J code.


7.3L are not heavy duty, though they may have been installed in some heavy duty applications. In a IH medium duty truck, a 7.3L powered truck wont bring crap compared to its 466 powered brother, and that is if the 7.3L is in good shape, which many are not, as that engine cant take it in a medium duty truck.

That said, in a pickup application they might be a little tougher than a 6.2L, but IMO not by alot.

As far as your conversion, I think alot of the stuff will direct swap from the donor rig, but IDK about the wiring between burb and pickup.

How rusty are the pickup and the burb? have you considered getting a already diesel equipped burb from out west?

 

[Dw89xj]

I think you will be fine, granted my 6.2L is in a C1500 reg cab, but I towed an empty 20 foot 14K trailer (around 4-5,000 lbs) over highway 50 in Colorado, as well as empty over Vail Pass, and if I would have drove it hard and said to heck with the smoke, I think I could have went over a few grades at 30-40 mph. on the 4spd manual, only hit 2nd a few times, mostly due to backing out of it due to smoke, not power loss.

Even with a load that little truck will fly, I can easily accelerate to danger zone RPM levels, 75 mph. If I had a NV4500, I think that little gal could hit 90. and its a EGR unit too, not even the J code.


7.3L are not heavy duty, though they may have been installed in some heavy duty applications. In a IH medium duty truck, a 7.3L powered truck wont bring crap compared to its 466 powered brother, and that is if the 7.3L is in good shape, which many are not, as that engine cant take it in a medium duty truck.

That said, in a pickup application they might be a little tougher than a 6.2L, but IMO not by alot.

As far as your conversion, I think alot of the stuff will direct swap from the donor rig, but IDK about the wiring between burb and pickup.

How rusty are the pickup and the burb? have you considered getting a already diesel equipped burb from out west?

Suburban only needs quarters otherwise very solid. Which is really rare in Pennsylvania but I got it from a guy in Virginia.

 

[Will L.]

The 6.2 and 7.3 are comparable when running same turbo size. IF your 7.3 had the turbo then it was 2 steps above the 6.2 n/a. If your ford had a turbo, you hen know that you'll need a turbo to duplicate that power.

My thought is, incase you do it and regret it for what ever reason, you could always go back to a gasser.

I think 1000 is an ok budget to install the 6.2 and take care of the little details that you should do while out and add fuel pressure and water temp gauges. But idk about doing all that and getting the tubo for that price. You might need to do some of it, then add on in stages. Dont spend all the money getting it in, a new to you engine is still used and something might break- dont leave yourself without transportation. If you have a car also, then yeah- no biggie.

I would follow WarWagon's advice- get felpro or victor reinze headgaskets, and arp studs for the heads. New rocker buttons while there. That is all cheap enough and in no way can require a machine shop do anything. It's up to you if you want to do rings, and bearings while it's out, but like WW mentioned, that might be a can of worms. If you were 100% you were going to stick with a 6.2/6.5 platform forever, then I would say rebuild as much as possible while its out, but a complete rebuild is not going to happen on that budget.

I would wait on turbo addition until you use it and see where you need the power the most, during acceleration while towing vs hiway speed while towing. Any turbo will help both of them, but specific turbo will do most at one end or the other unless you drop a couple grand on the turbo and a qsv. Then there is still plumbing to deal with.

Exhaust should be moved up to 4" turbo or n/a but thats an option for later. When you do injectors, buy new ones from Leroy for a turbo even if you are running n/a for a while. The higher pop pressure won't hurt a thing, then you are set for later. Dont get injectors from an unknown source- crappy ones dont last. Later when you add a turbo, you can turn up the fuel screw and need nothing more.

I read a ton of people talk about adding a turbo to a n/a 6.2 or 6.5 rig lowers it's mpg. Not true, i done it. Keep in mind my rig is heavy with 12.5" wide tires, and I didnt just thrn up my fuel screw the required amount, I gave it some extra. By driving foot to the floor on almost all stoplights, before and after turbo my mpg stayed on he same, but it was a totally different truck. People that used to walk away from me at stoplights, I found in my mirrors. I added 3" of height to my roof in flat windshield space and the 2" pipes all adding to wind resistance as well as 1,000 lbs weight at the same time as the tubo too. Months later i finally got to driving it at the same rate of acceleration I used to do when n/a and figure I added 2 mpg city driving, and 3mpg hiway. A suburban is lighter and more aerodynamic (yes even yours) so should yeild better results. That was a gm6. ATT, hx 35, hx35/40 hybrid, etc should all do even better.

How often you tow and miles per year is what would determine the turbo cost return on investment. If you are thinking alternative fuels to help offset cost you have the perfect choice, but adding wmi becomes magic to keep the injectors clean and offsets fuel power loss.

A nother things to consider while the engine is out is new timing chain and a new waterpump. I *}%!!! HATE the water pump/ timing cover thing on these engines. Doing them on the engine stand or hanging from a cherry picker is soo much better than in the truck. The chains stretch on these engines enough to warrant timing adjustment every 50k miles. The dream fix is Leroy's gear drive instead of a chain- another "forever fix" like the fluid damper, but more $ than stock parts- which makes sense and well worth it.

If you were to Blow the engine or just decide to go back to the gasser: things like arp head studs, geardrive, fluid damper all still have resale value- not same price as new obviously, but there is value in them used compared to a used timing chain, tty head bolts, stock balancer- all only good for scrap weight. No one here would buy any of that used, not even take it for free.

Lastly in this book, (those who messed up and met me in person can attest, I talk this much live also) if you choose to do rings and bearings while out... spend the $ on gapless rings. Do the cam bearings, not just lowers, and learn what select fit is before buying lower bearings (stupid a$$ GM sometimes... they did so good on bbc and sbc, why didnt they stick with that on bearings & waterpump!)

 

[WarWagon]

No its not impaired equipped yet I'm a t10/11 injury level so I just need hand controls.
I had thought about taking the whole tank, as long as the ring is the same size I think I could adapt it to my tank without too much headache.
I really would like to go diesel but I may just stay gasser. I'm not worried about speed so much as being able maintain an acceptable speed while towing. The diesel just seemed to me to be the best idea for extended camping trips and hunting trips. Like I said earlier I had a 7.3 idi and loved it it didn't use much fuel but topped out about 70 to 75 mph in od, I know 2 different animals but similar in design so my thoughts were that the 6.2 should get me the same or better mileage than the 7.3. Eventually I would consider 4l80e but its not in the cards for now. The suburban runs strong and drives now so I don't need to swap but its also a project and we all know they never end.

Don't let me change your dreams, but, have a better idea of what you are getting into.

Honestly don't fix what isn't broken. You are spending a lot of time and cash for MPG that could be spent on the camper and fuel going places. As I noted the harder you work the 6.2 the worse the MPG gets. Out East you don't have the mountain passes and constant "uphill both ways" grades as bad as we do out here so take my MPG numbers as the extreme. This is modern gas engine at 6 MPG towing a 24" cargo trailer at the truck's weight limit and the 6.5 TD with a GM3 turbo at 7.5 MPG. With a grand dropped on a A Team Turbo and related setup I went to 10.4 MPG with the 6.2. Towing 550 miles a day it would pay for itself quickly.

In town where the TCC doesn't lock I get 10 MPG maybe on all but the Manual Trans diesel. (Duramax, 6.2, 6.5's.)

Even on gentle towing I would wedge an umbrella between the throttle and the seat as cruise control kicks out at 16 MPH below the set point. Most towing is done foot to the floor. The large turbo made all the difference in the world.

As an aside the speed limits out here are 75 MPH, most trailer tires are rated at 65 MPH (You can buy better tires in LT etc.), and doing 62 MPH or less towing a camping trailer while having your doors blown off is anything but fun. Did I mention I recommend a better turbo and absolutely do a turbo?

Dropping another grand on a high stall converter or a BD Spool Valve gets rid of the "no turbo spool" at RPM below 2000 you will find with the large towing turbo's.

Are you doing your own labor?

Again as suggested find a rig that's already 6.2 diesel, preferably cheap with a blown engine, and drop this one in. Paying full price for a running 6.2/6.5 can result in finding out the engine is at the end of it's life and you replace it anyway.

Here is a good trip diary of a member @orrum towing with a 6.2 NA.
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/my-trip-the-lil-6-2-that-could.35475/

 

[Dw89xj]

My 7.3 was n/a in a dually crew cab. Bigger engine but bigger truck as well.
And yes I would rather deal with as much as possible while the engine is out. I'm a big fan of the forever fixes even though just the fluidamper will eat about a third of my budget. Its kind of a no brainer for me others may say its a waste but I'll take reliability any day. Also if I dig into the bottom I will take the advice of checking the rod bearings so not to stress the block more than it needs.
I hope I'm not expecting too much from a 6.2. I'm really not going to tow often but a couple times a year I may tow a camper 4 to 5 hrs is my guess assuming I can hold 50 to 55 on flat highway and one or two small mountains I'm hoping to be able to stay above 25 to 30 mph, seven mountains in Pennsylvania to be more specific if any members are familiar with the area. But then again I may just buy a bigger tent and use my small home made trailer to haul any bigger stuff when I go. Other than that it would be a rare occasion maybe once or twice a year and thats a big maybe, I might haul something as heavy as suburban. It will really just mostly be putting around here locally and driving the dirt roads and some trails in our small mountains. Our mountains are pretty small compared to out west but some are steep. I will be running no larger than a 33 inch tire p78 16 which is supposed to be roughly a 33x10.50 unless I can find the p78 16c which are supposed to be about 9.50 wide. I'm hoping the skinny tire will help cut down on resistance and so far a skinny aggressive tire has always worked perfect for the sort of terrain and trails I drive on. I don't do mud really any more than I have to but I do a good bit of pretty easy trails and occasionally drive on the pipeline which isn't too bad just a little rocky. Idk if this helps give a better idea of how hard I'll be using it.
I'm getting the engine, trans, transfer case, hydraboost and anything else I want from the donor truck for a mild small block I've been working at, it should be 300hp/400ftlb according to bench top dyno which is supposed to be accurate to 7℅ according to my machinist engine builder friend that was helping me. Yes more power but I don't think nearly the economy.

 

[Dw89xj]

I would be doing as much as I can myself but with the actual install I'd be having help from friends. But unless something needs machined I'd be in doing everything else my self.
I'm back to being up in the air about staying gas, I was dead set on diesel but WarWagon makes good points. I'm not planning on ever getting rid of the suburban so cost isn't a huge concern its a project but I don't wanna hate it or seem like I'm expecting too much from it.
I will eventually be going turbo but its not going to be real soon.

 

[Dw89xj]

Thank you guys for all the links and information, I might just let it be, it is a strong runner I just don't expect much for gas/fuel mileage from it with the gas engine. Like I said I could do a pretty basic 383 that will give me plenty of torque but no mileage, but it sounds like I shouldn't expect much mileage wise if I'm working the 6.2. My 7.3 stayed in the upper teens for the most part occasionally I could hit 20 to 21 mpg, it was an ex pa state truck so I suspect the pump may have even been turned down some maybe not but it definitely wasn't turned up.
Also the paranoid in me thinks that 6.2 would also be much better for bug out or other crisis where conventional fuel might be hard to get. But mostly I'm thinking of long camping trips and hunting trips but as the point was made I could invest in a generator for power needs in a situation like that. I'm not sure if its obvious yet but I have a hard time making up my mind because I try and look at it from all angles. I've never owned a Chevy diesel but the couple friends I have that have them love them. Some claim crazy fuel mileage that's borderline unbelievable but I suppose with proper tuning and gearing and the right driver I don't feel hitiing 20 plus is impossible.

 

[pahl]

I rarely comment on these due to the fact that there are many out there with more knowledge than what I possess. Reading your story however makes me want to comment. I bought my -97 6.5 diesel burb in 2013. Absolutely loved it. What I didn't anticipate (should have knowing what I know now) is that the crankshaft broke on our first camping tour.
I didn't have the money to put in a optimizer 6.5 so I went for a mil takeout 6.2 (shipped to Finland). I threw everything from the 6.5 on to the 6.2 including the factory turbo. It blew a head gasket 15th miles later, but I found the passenger head not properly torqued.
Currently I drive it daily. Mpgs are at 13-17, mostly city driving. I can tow my camper at those mpgs on highways being gentle. Without trailer I can go up to 24 miles per gallon, but that is strictly highway. Any city driving will drop it to the first mentioned range. The 24 mpg came from realizing that my truck's optimal speed is around 60-62 mph. Below or above will severly impact the mpg.
While towing I want to stay at approx the same as the truck is more powerful then. Bare in mind I have the 4l80 trans.

My two cents. I'm very happy with a 6.2 turbo also while pulling my camper(weight approx. 4000 pounds).
No way of commenting driving it without the turbo, but I do love it with the turbo!

Good luck which ever way you choose to go!

Skickat från min SM-A510F via Tapatalk

 

[Will L.]

@pahl Hi! Speak up more often.

 

[WarWagon]

The 1980's diesel the NA 6.2 hit 20 MPG in 2WD configurations is no longer made. Our 1988 4x4 6.2 burb would hit 18 back when it was new on this now non-existent higher BTU and sulfur diesel fuel. In Wyoming my Godmother had a 350 burb of the same year when we visited. It was walking away from us on a hill and smelled bad as well from hot cats and high sulfur in the gas in the day. Not saying the 350 is a powerhouse, but, the NA 6.2 was intended to replace a 305.

I would have killed for a turbo on the 1988 6.2. And that is without any towing. The GMx turbo's I found out like 20 years later were not worth killing for. The pull like a freight train to redline, like diesels are SUPPOSED TO DO, takes a larger turbo. I explain it this way: you have to have HP to back up the torque climbing a hill.

Dad couldn't stand the flat torque curve of the 1994 454 3/4t 2wd burb we got next, but, it had power no matter what. It would idle and bring the speed up 45 MPH in it's warm up mode. (A tune, higher stall converter, better exhaust, headers, and bigger TBI would have woken it up while muting the high MPH idle.) It wouldn't pass a gas station. It had ZERO problems vs. expensive glow plugs, batteries, and starters the 6.2 ate way too often due to now obsolete and troublesome glow plug/ controller design. At the end of the day the single digit MPG had the 454 traded in.

With today's ULSD, Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel, and a turbo getting over 14 MPG is about tops on a NBS 4x4 (1993, 1995). YMMV.

 

[Dw89xj]

The 1980's diesel the NA 6.2 hit 20 MPG in 2WD configurations is no longer made. Our 1988 4x4 6.2 burb would hit 18 back when it was new on this now non-existent higher BTU and sulfur diesel fuel. In Wyoming my Godmother had a 350 burb of the same year when we visited. It was walking away from us on a hill and smelled bad as well from hot cats and high sulfur in the gas in the day. Not saying the 350 is a powerhouse, but, the NA 6.2 was intended to replace a 305.

I would have killed for a turbo on the 1988 6.2. And that is without any towing. The GMx turbo's I found out like 20 years later were not worth killing for. The pull like a freight train to redline, like diesels are SUPPOSED TO DO, takes a larger turbo. I explain it this way: you have to have HP to back up the torque climbing a hill.

Dad couldn't stand the flat torque curve of the 1994 454 3/4t 2wd burb we got next, but, it had power no matter what. It would idle and bring the speed up 45 MPH in it's warm up mode. (A tune, higher stall converter, better exhaust, headers, and bigger TBI would have woken it up while muting the high MPH idle.) It wouldn't pass a gas station. It had ZERO problems vs. expensive glow plugs, batteries, and starters the 6.2 ate way too often due to now obsolete and troublesome glow plug/ controller design. At the end of the day the single digit MPG had the 454 traded in.

With today's ULSD, Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel, and a turbo getting over 14 MPG is about tops on a NBS 4x4 (1993, 1995). YMMV.

That's one plus of Pennsylvania, is being emmisions exempt because of the weight class I'll have and the lack of miles I will put on each year. Under 5000mi. Its starting to sound more and more like after I get this trade I should take my budget and just do a very basic 383. That should give me plenty of torque and enough HP to keep me moving , also with a mild can or rv cam the factory TBI should work well. I went to diesel tech and did well but never used my education for anything other than maintaining my own stuff and helping buddies with theirs. I'm no master but I know my way around a small block fairly well. I guess it was a nice dream but my wife found an rv that needs an engine maybe the 6.2 could handle lugging it around a couple times a yea and I'll just let the suburban gas. I guess my goal was sort of a cucv suburban knock off.

 

[Dw89xj]

Well today luck finally landed on me and a buddy gave me a decent size rv. It was big block. My question is will the 6.2 have enough guts to move it, even if I can only run 45 or 50mph?