Which reaman long blocks to avoid?

[L98TPI]

Someone that knows I am into the 6.5/6.2 stuff asks me where to source a reman 6.5. I draw a blank.
Is this guy on ebay reputable? Experiences? http://www.ebay.com/itm/300833833839
Better vendors?

I just found out there is a seller of all sorts of new diesel castings and other parts about 3 hours from me. So no shipping. :hihi: Most assuredly its all imported stuff but what you gonna do? I can buy a set of bare head castings and reuse my 90k mile valves/springs. Woo!

 

[turbovanman]

Stay away from the Chinese crap, cheap or not, its junk. I've seen it in person and its scary, very soft.

Some rebuilders won't touch a GM block or heads, they will replace with either Chinese or GEP castings. If that link is correct, then they do rebuild cores. Generally, if its not cracked now after miles of use, its going to fine.

 

[JayTheCPA]

I'd rule out Jasper. Not disrespecting their reputation by any means.

When I called around for a replacement motor, the only thing Jasper would tell me about the long block was that it was re-built to OE spec and there was no guarantee of which block went into the motor.

 

[Burning oil]

Most rebuilders are as a matter of course are going to turn the crank too.

 

[Missy Good Wench]

Personally, I would stay away from the boxed rebuilt engines.

Scare up a good block that does not have any center main cracks, then be sure the cylinder decks are good.

These engines have a nasty habit of the decks eroding around the stainless fire ring of the head gasket on cyls 1 and 2 (front cyls)

If there is erosion, the decks can be cut up to .012" but make sure they have not been cut once already.

There is a thick gasket from Felpro available.

Stock, the pistons should be from flush to no more than .005" protrusion above the deck


Good decks, good center mains and then look at the bores.

These engines can easily go 200k miles and have usable bores.

If the bores are shaky, go as little over as needed. .020" to .030"

Fit pistons at .004" on the front 6 and .0045" on the back 2 and your set.

A standard rebuild procedure can follow.

Unless the crank is trash, leave it alone. Most cranks will do fine with STD bearings

Rods at .0025" and mains at .002" to .003" clearance

Be sure you keep push rods oriented as they came from the factory with the copper colored ends UP

Replace the timing chain. Generally the sprockets are good to go.

Replace the lifters only unless the cam has bad lobes, then the entire set up

Usually the cams in these last well.

Use a moly ring set.

New head bolts are a must do (TTY BOLTS ARE A ONE TIME SHOT)

The heads from clearwater are fine. Yess they are china cast, but I have used a few sets with zero issues
AMG heads are $1000 a set the last time I checked

Just a note here

With the block in question clean and dry (steam clean) heat the areas near the outer main bolts on the center 3 mains with a propane torch until very hot, then let stand.

Any cracks will see oil bubble/seep out
Far easier and cheaper than a mag job

Avoid early 506 blocks with oil squirters and large outer main bolts (12mm)

If you get a squirter block, it must be fitted with the later high volume oil pump.
Early blocks of the 599, 929 and 141 variety (no squirters) use a lower volume pump.

You can use a high volume pump on a non squirt block, but not the low volume on the squirter block.

Anecdotal info suggest that the 599 block is/was the best.

Check Julian dates on any 506 blocks

Any block in the 1998 vintage should be avoided, as theses series had a cracking issue with number 8 cyl near the top rear.

This is a fatal issue and not something to deal with. Don't buy one

Early 599 6.2 blocks (one piece rear main) can be a great find and will happily finish at std 6.5 bore.

There is a ton of junk out there, be ware of what you buy.

I have been down a long and tumultuous path with these engines over the years, and can tell you from experience, you can spend a buttload of $$$$ and still wind up with junk.

My last go round with a "GOOD USED" block saw $1000 spent, only to find out that one deck had been cut before I got the block.

The results were sadly a failure.

It sits outside now, waiting to hit the scrap pile.

Look long and hard, measure, be thorough before you spend the $$$$$
Get a written $$$ back guarantee on any used iron that it's crack free, that the decks can be used.

Stay away from Cometic head gaskets on these engines. They are good gaskets, just not for 6.5 AS THERE ARE TOO FEW HEAD BOLTS

Happy to answer any ??????????????

Missy

 

[turbovanman]

Good advice but I'll add, consider ARP head studs, much better insurance.

 

[Husker6.5]

Do NOT use these clowns http://www.65ldiesel.com/page/page/1591260.htm (formerly known as International Diesel LTD). There are a couple of threads on the other sponsored 6.5 only forum from a couple of years back with some real horror stories about them involving several State Attorney General's getting involved with blown motors being shipped as new remans, etc. Unfortunately, with corporate laws being what they are, they merely filed bankruptcy and reopened under a new name at the same location with a redirect from their old web site to their new one. They claim to do a complete teardown and rebuild of their motors and each one is ran on a dyno for an hour to ensure everything is ok before shipment, even had a video of one you could watch/listen to. Run and keep running away from them. It wasn't just 6.5's that were junk, so were their Duramax "rebuilds". They claimed to be experts on remanufacturing nearly every make of diesel engine out there and every configuation with a huge inventory of finished motors ready for shipment. Riiiiiight, and there's a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, too!

 

[Missy Good Wench]

I have no experience with the ARP stud kits, but the reviews are real good.

For a good rebuild, the boxed TTY bolts from Felpro are fine.

Most factory built engine would run 200k + miles without issues.

The only real advantage I see with the ARP studs on the 6.5 is that they are reusable.

The failure point up top is not the bolts, its the gaskets, and this is due to erosion around the fire ring from coolant that's exposed to the blind block area at the front.

Once the block erodes, the stainless fire ring will blow through.
The newer Felpro head gaskets have a stainless reinforcing that covers that entire area to help prevent the problem.

Sadly, the actions of many scammers has Effed things for everyone.

Doing a build yourself is really the only good solution.

Along with all the great info that's here and on other forums like TDP you can do a top notch job.

With the mass knowledge accrued from those of us who have struggled through several of these engines, the pitfalls can be avoided.

A 6.5 is not really any harder to rebuild than a Chevy mouse motor.

The parts are a tad heavier, but all the basics are the same.

The diesel part is no biggy, as these engines have all the basics like block, crank, pistons, rods, rings bearings, cam, lifters, timing chain and gears.

Just pay good attention to details and your set.

One real important step on a 6.2/6.5 is to remove all the stress risers in the lower end.

This entails breaking all sharp corners on the main webs with a nice new fine cut file.
The part lines in the main web area (especially the 3 center webs) are razor sharp, and this is just like a sharply folded piece of paper, it will tear (Crack) easily

Break the edges at a 45 degree angle about 1/32" wide.
Do not alter the register fit where the mains fit into the block, but a careful maneuver with a very tiny BALL CUTTER in a die grinder to just remove the razor sharp angle at the bottom of the register is a good thing.

Lightly chamfer all the main bolt holes. Again 1/32" wide, and use a good countersink in a variable speed drill.

The oil passage holes in the main saddles as well as the squirt nozzle holes also need to be chamfered.

JUST BREAK THE SHARP EDGE IS ALL THAT'S NEEDED

The starter bolt holes need the same treatment as well.

Do this on an oil free block, preferably before it heads to the machine shop for boring.

Always have the cam bearings removed before boring/machine work.

This allows the block to be cleaned well.

There are areas behind some of the cam bearings that could allow metal from machining to collect.

Before you have the cam bearings removed MAKE A MAP OF WHERE THE OIL HOLES ARE LOCATED ON EACH ONE 1 2 3 4 5 This is very important !!!!!

Run an appropriate tap through all the head bolt holes to clear all the old sealant, and do so before the block is hot tanked.
Never use lube on the threads in the block when using TTY bolts. With ARP STUDS follow MFG directions

If there is any erosion on the cyl deck, they need to be cut.

Make sure the top of each cylinder is chamfered to about 1/16" or so after a rebore, as this will allow the rings to enter easily without snagging or damage. (Some shops don't do it)

Attention to details is not difficult but is important to getting a top notch result.

These little details can make all the difference.

More good stuff from the folder marked Experience :hello:


Missy

 

[WarWagon]

ARP's solve the "problem" of the 6.2/6.5 engines also being slightly short of head bolts. Also a good choice if building power or going insane on boost. If you seal the ARP's to prevent coolant leaks the TTY bolts are no longer the weak point - the bottom end is the next weak point! The MFG directions for ARP and 6.x's is good for toilet paper. You need to take/use other methods like using locktight to seal the studs in coolant contacting head bolt holes or you get the joy of coolant in the oil and doing the job over.

The cranks are induction hardened at the factory. Turning them removes the hardening. Don't turn a 6.2/6.5 crank.

The Optimizer and P400 non GM cast engines are the better way to go. Otherwise you need to rebuild the engine yourself due to so many bad places out there. Again the "good" places have all gone to Optimizers and/or P400's. Yep, expensive but worth it.

These engines differ from a rat motor in a couple important ways:
1) They (GM cast) crack all to h3LL so rebuilding isn't always an option.
2) Select fit bearings and pistons with different clearances for the rear pistons.

 

[turbovanman]

I just used Permatex thread sealer on mine and have no issues with coolant seepage. Guess I got lucky. :thumbsup:

IIRC, I think I ignored the ARP torque value and cranked them to 130 ft/lbs based on another engine build.

 

[WarWagon]

People get crazy with o-ring seals etc, but, you have to do something - anything to seal the ARP's. And this is what the instructions and kit lack. Myself I tighten the studs into the block. I have had the heads off 2-3 times with the red locktight sealed to the block set on the 1993's engine. The gasket didn't blow even with it eating a worm clamp. Other ways to seal them, but, I am cheap/broke and that's all I had around. (Red, Really? That's never going to come out even after the block finally fails! :rolleyes5: )

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?20271-Leaking-ARP-head-studs
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?23349-Installing-ARP-Studs-s

 

[Mike K3500]

I used Orange High Temp RTV on my studs.. torqued to 125, but 110 probably is more the sufficient even on a Optimizer block...
Getting ready to do the 1.6 rocker swap soon

 

[turbovanman]

I used Orange High Temp RTV on my studs.. torqued to 125, but 110 probably is more the sufficient even on a Optimizer block...
Getting ready to do the 1.6 rocker swap soon

Aha, I saw your sig and that's why I went 125, haven't regretted it, van runs flawlessly.