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what is your preferred timing chain? do you think gears are OK for 6.5L?

ok, new question: Funds didnt last as long as hoped, so the gears are getting put off longer. I have a new question about the chain.

in a downhill coasting situation, will the slack allways stay on one side? aka, will the crank allways stay the driver, or in a no load coasting situation, will the cam turn into the driver and slop the slack over on the other side? does the cam, valves, and IP pull hard enough to ensure the slop stays on one side?

I am wanting to adjust timing, but am concerned about where the slack rides and dont want to possibly mess anything up (interference) when i let off the throttle coming off a hill.

also, is it necessary to loosen and re-tighten the injector lines after adjusting to reduce load, or preload if you will on the lines? maybe torsional stress is a better term.
 
I have seen it ( cam slop vs crank ) on a engine dyno, and that was on a bb chevy, and that chain was no where close to being as loose as the chains on our motors....

GMguy, they are doing great so far, the timing is touchy when setting it, but once set it stays there, and there is a 2* advance built in them.... I wouldn't go back to a chain now at all....
 
i have 30000 km on my engine with a gear drive in it and all seems fine, engine is crisper that any i have heard. harmonics....... not so sure about that i can't hear any noise from the oil filler tube with the cap removed and engine running and the engine seems really happy with it in there. i have built Eaton Fuller transmissions for a while and they are straight cut gears with 2 counter shafts and never get any noise/vibration out of them. In regards to the chain flopping back and forth im not so sure it is a factor once the chain is loaded with the valve train and inj pump. i figured that as the chain wore it would retard timing and thats it, how can you change the load on the valve train by loading the crankshaft? it's already spinning with it and the valves and pump are keeping it under load, if you managed to get a 4 stroke engine to run backwards then you would pick up the slack on direction change and that would be it...loaded in the opposite direction.

i had a long argument on this subject with a co worker in the shop who was trying to convince me that the best way to set the timing on a SBC was without a timing light, the light gets u close but to really "dial" it in you put the car in gear and load it up a bit, and turn distributor untill it "sounds right" . he was convinced that it removed all the slack from the timing chain. put a timing light on an engine with a slightly worn timing chain.. does it jump around? or is it just late? i know it is a gas engine but timing is timing no matter what engine you are dealing with.

sorry about the long post

i would go with the gears if you had the cash or a good quality(cloyes,melling,sealed power) timing chain if cash is tight
 
I don't know the how part, and I don't know if our motor would act the same as a gasser that doesn't have anything else connected to the cam ( like our IP ), I just know that the test I watched showed it did make a small difference, they had censers connected to everything and then some.... and I'm not talking much difference, but the computer's did pick it up every time the test was done vs a gear set.

It just doesn't seam right that if a timing chain set was OK to be as loose as one of ours is after X many miles the makers would make them loose to start with, maybe things are over thought about sometimes, everyone can do what they think is best... I went with the gears for that very reason, and so should everyone else, no one is ever going to agree with everything and that is a good thing me thinks :thumbsup:
 
I like the gear drive for the 100% accurate timing all the time ,chains are like anything else mechanical there is a break in period and they cant take into effect factors like cam centering and line boring/ honing of the crank that's why they have wear limits.

The butt dyno tells that there is a performance gain because we are returning the engine to stock, after 100+ k miles u are used to the way the engine performs so the small decline in power/ response is not noticed but if the truck changed owners and a new timing set was installed the difference in power is noticed immediately.
 
so folks, its time to take the 93 off the back burner. any more pros or cons for gears? I hate the price, but still am leaning towards gears. any reason other than price to stick with the chain?
 
Its a stockish truck, unless yout power is getting raised to the max I think the chain is fine. Warwagon hasn't snapped a chain so they have to be decent! lol I think from what your goals seem to be a good chain set will be fine.
 
goals are 500K miles and my lazy ass not having to change timing. :) power is no big deal, but I want this thing to attempt 500K miles. Fluidampr, bypass filter and synthetics. better cooling system too.
 
Hey! its a diesel. Its just getting broken in at 500k. Anyone ever hear that one?
 
Have a set of gears waiting to go into a P-400 (which is on order). Peninsular knows that when the P-400 gets to me, the timing chain and HB are coming off, Phazers and a FD (bought from Leroy (and Leroy, you are welcome for the shameless 'plug' ;) )) are going in, and is still backing the warantee. Does that help toward what the Industry thinks of these two products?

In looking into gear suppliers, I only found the same two as already noted and Kennedy offered them for a little less. Were I in Canada, might consider purchasing from DSG to avoid potential duty fees.

Toward gears adding harmonics, there is commentary on Steel Soldiers about additional harmonics and a very small reduction in power (by a few HP, literally, single digit) on gasser v8 racing engines but no real response from a 6.X IDI perspective; also, other SS folks noted that Semi's used gears and further pressed for clarification on how the harmonics commentary applied to the 6.X. In a chat with my mechanic, he also mentioned that gears made a whine in his race engines, but when I commented that the IDI redlined at less than half of his race engine *and* was much more noisy to start with, he pulled back to a neutral position. So, I'll gladly let y'all know if I can hear the gears above the engine drone (and Yes, I got-it that not all harmonics reach the ear ;) ).

Back to the original question toward a total picture for the rebuild, might want to delay a bit to let Leroy finish his exhaust mod which moves the crossover to the front.
 
You can't hear them... I have the DSG (aka Pete Jackson) gears in my Optimizer WHEN I had ran mine you couldn't hear them at idle or revved in neutral.
 
big blue dsl said:
i have 30000 km on my engine with a gear drive in it and all seems fine, engine is crisper that any i have heard. harmonics....... not so sure about that i can't hear any noise from the oil filler tube with the cap removed and engine running and the engine seems really happy with it in there. i have built Eaton Fuller transmissions for a while and they are straight cut gears with 2 counter shafts and never get any noise/vibration out of them. In regards to the chain flopping back and forth im not so sure it is a factor once the chain is loaded with the valve train and inj pump. i figured that as the chain wore it would retard timing and thats it, how can you change the load on the valve train by loading the crankshaft? it's already spinning with it and the valves and pump are keeping it under load, if you managed to get a 4 stroke engine to run backwards then you would pick up the slack on direction change and that would be it...loaded in the opposite direction.
Click to expand...

Due to the way the intake and exhaust valves open and close and due to multiple cylinders, the IP, the chain is constantly loaded and unloaded and also chopping the gas, this also causes the chain to tighten/loosen. Look at any worn timing gears, they have wear on both sides of the teeth, not just the drive side. And yep, when they get loose, timing is retarded, making your engine a sloth around town.

I would love a set but can't justify $400.

Cough Leroy cough, group buy for $300 or less? :thumbsup: :rof:
 
I hadn't investigated too far with my gear drive, I do know that it came from DSG, as I do have the original purchasers receipt ... On the cam gear, however, there is a PJ stamped into it.
 
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