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Wear marks on crankshaft snout

Wow. I cant remember ever seeing one of those. Definately never used one. I have installed a bunch, but guess I could have done a better job getting the cover centered.

The rtv is a good idea. Ive just used oil or assembly lube in the past.

You guys know your not supposed to tell me about more tools, I am an addict, but at current prices im seeing I might pass.
 
WarWagon said:
I use a bolt and washer to get the harmonic damper on. I only hammer on things I am going to replace... And maybe a few things in striking distance as well. @THEFERMANATOR good tip on RTV. No room to hammer things with engine in truck.

Blame @GM Guy for that tool know how. "Kent Moore J-22102, its other purpose is front cover alignment as well as driving that seal home in 3 wacks."
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/changing-1994-6-5-for-1990-6-2.44473/page-6#post-507709

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/threads/kent-moore-j-22102-front-crank-seal-installer.44576/
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That's a tool I'll have to buy. I have such a hard time installing front seals on these motors for some reason, always takes a long time of messing with it to get it seated straight... one time I destroyed the seal while trying to install it and had to order another one.

I don't, however have any trouble lining up the timing cover. The block has a locating dowel and in my experience they mesh together nice and straight easily. It's harder to get the water pump/front cover aligned on the timing cover IMO.
 
image.jpeg Here is the motor as of last night. It was your typical 6.5 all soaked in oil and grime an inch thick and made a mess while tearing it down. Went through cases of cleaner and shop towels and bags of oil dry lol My shed is still a mess but I do my best to work clean: I clean all bolts and threads before installing, clean gasket surfaces well, clean and paint parts, etc It pays off when you take your time and it feels good too, I'm really happy with how the motor's turning out! Can't wait to fire it up!
 
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Reactions: NVW
Also I looked up how to decode the casting date on the block, this engine has K203 cast on the pass. side bellhousing flange which translates to October 20, 1993

That would make it an early 1994 electronic motor, correct? I know none of this matters but I'm the curious type. The other side reads 10149599 Is it possible to learn anything from those numbers other than it's a 599 block?
 
There is a J-22102 that is supposed to be the communal tool, I bought it to help the gentleman from Oregon get his rig together on a super tight budget, and he is storing it till the next guy needs it.

I cant remember his user name off the top of my head at 2am though. :)

I am pretty giddy about them, I think I bought 3 of them total, one at each place to use, and a near perfect one to put on a shelf and make a shrine out of and pet for good luck.
 
GM Guy, I'm the one you got the tool for. Been so busy around the home place this summer that I've been rather sporadic with getting on this site this summer. I still have the tool, and if it is needed by someone the message would get through much quicker and more reliably by using my e-mail, which is: [email protected]

Don
 
Was the balancer a pain to remove and what kind of balancer was on it? I bet my crank snout looks like this, bought a Fluidampr and when it was delivered I installed it the next day. It was so bloody tight on the crank it was UNREAL! I used oil, rtv, antisieze, sanded it, pulled it off sanded again, then again and again! Used a Snap-on harmonic balancer installer, and still it was way way tight. Decided when it needs to come off i might just have to throw the engine away.
 
Don, thanks for the response! I remembered your name and the truck, but for the life of me couldnt remember the username. :)
 
Olddieselguy said:
Was the balancer a pain to remove and what kind of balancer was on it? I bet my crank snout looks like this, bought a Fluidampr and when it was delivered I installed it the next day. It was so bloody tight on the crank it was UNREAL! I used oil, rtv, antisieze, sanded it, pulled it off sanded again, then again and again! Used a Snap-on harmonic balancer installer, and still it was way way tight. Decided when it needs to come off i might just have to throw the engine away.
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It was on pretty tight but pulled off without a problem. I don't know what brand the old one was but I replaced it with a Dorman which went on smoothly lubed with oil and using a 4lb hammer and a block of wood. I get them most of the way on then use the bolt to draw the balancer in the rest of the way and then tighten to 200ft/lbs.
 
Wow y'all beat it on with a bfh.... ya ever give any thought what that does to the thrust portion of the main bearings ? Guess that measurement only being a couple thousandths a little beating might help it maybe ya think...
 
sctrailrider said:
Wow y'all beat it on with a bfh.... ya ever give any thought what that does to the thrust portion of the main bearings ? Guess that measurement only being a couple thousandths a little beating might help it maybe ya think...
Click to expand...

Yeah probably not the nicest thing I have done to my old truck, But 10 years later its still going strong. Makes me wonder how much of a beating pushing in the clutch put on the crank thrust bearing. Saw one years ago that the clutch went out due to a bad thrust bearing.
 
@Olddieselguy The clutch going in and out has full oil pressure when it beats the bearing and is less sudden shock. Same no oil pressure consideration to rattle guns on crank bolts and rod bearings... Nevermind inaccurate torque, usually too little, and the crank bolt coming loose. Simply a risk one can think about considering the engine they are building: these are NOT $30,000.00+ race car engines. ~$7,000.00 P400 I would treat differently than the surplus ~$1500.00 engines I play with.
 
To parlay off Warwagon's comment:
Firing up the engine is most of the bearing wear, that bit of oil shure makes a difference in stoping the force of detonation.
There is also the inertia and centrifugal forces keeping the crankshaft from being moved by any foreward force applied via the clutch.
Then the fingers and springs absorbing most of the shock load as well.

It does make me wonder: what is the lateral force applied to the actual crankshaft when disengaging a clutch? Where is engineer bobby?
 
I use the Fluidampr install kit on all of them, Fluidampr or OEM style, and so far so good, some go a little easier, but they all go on pretty easy. The closest the hammer comes to the crank is installing the front seal. :)
 
@Will L. that is a good question, i am sure its a ton. Especially really big or racing clutches. Makes me also wonder why we don't see more thrust bearing problems. How often does someone jump in your car/truck push in the clutch, start it with zero oil pressure and somehow they live like that, for years. The one clutch i did see that had a problem due the thrust bearing it was ford 390, then it was 30 years ago. How I found it was a total accident, the customer came in saying it is hard to get into gear, the adjustment was all the way out so i pulled the trans thinking the pilot bearing had exploded or the clutch came apart. Everything looked fine at first till i took a pry bar to the flywheel and holy wow! I bet that crank moved almost a 1/4 inch! Pulled the oil pan off and that main cap was all black and the pan was full of metal. Who knows maybe its because he hammered on his balancer?

What i should have done was called Fluidampr and said what the heck's going on with this. But i had it apart, badly needed the truck for the next week and pushed with the Snap-on YA188B harmonic balancer installer tool and still had to hammer the (&&^^%#&*($@ thing on anyway.
 
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Olddieselguy said:
What i should have done was called Fluidampr and said what the heck's going on with this. But i had it apart, badly needed the truck for the next week and pushed with the Snap-on YA188B harmonic balancer installer tool and still had to hammer the (&&^^%#&*($@ thing on anyway
Click to expand...
I seem to recall someone with problems with a Fluid Damper 2-3 years back. The bore was rough IIRC.
 
@Olddieselguy That sux being caught in the time crunch- been there too many times.
I was actually thnking the other way- that not too much lateral force gets applied to the crankshaft. Yeah a lot of force is on the clutch fingers, but I think the springs are absorbing most of it. But definaetly more force to the thrust bearing on the disengage before starting.
Also thinking the applied force would have less of a shock wave effect than the fast swing of a hammer.

@NVW I think you nailed it. There were some of the balancers that had something like .002 too much meat.

I remeber back when at the fleet when we learned of all the breaking crankshafts and main webs cracking. We went to the warehouse and brought over the "samples". Bad harmonic balancers were easily found on every broken crank. We pulled them off - then tested new balncers in stock (we started swapping at 100k regardless of age even back then) the crank tolerance was not so impressive. + or - 0.01 .

Some balancers could be smacked on by hand. And it was not just the HB. Crank snout taper wasn't the greatest. Thats why the final torque is mighty important.
 
This was longer then that, maybe 8ish years ago. Cant remember for sure, swear as I get older time flies faster. It was so horrible to install that I really do worry about when it needs to come off next, that it might not happen. Might have to be cut off HAHA!

Still one of the best aftermarket parts i have installed. Everybody get in my truck and says wow this runs smooth for an old beater. Been thinking about installing one on my other 6.5 but i have debated whether I should take the risk of being such a PITA to install. That and they are like $400
 
And yes Will L. thats why I replaced mine with a Fulidampr, the crank broke. Not because the old balancer was bad, but the bolt loosened up, broke the keyway and the balancer turned offsetting the balance. Final torque killed my engine.
 
Well see, maybe it going on so hard that it may not come off, even if you lose the bolt- haha.

On the other truck, you just have to subtract thecost of AC Delco from the $400, then do that for evry 100,000 miles you will own it. After that, the rest is an insurance policy.
 
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